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Government confirms 400,000 Turkish gowns are useless for NHS
Minister Brandon Lewis says much-heralded shipment fell below medical standard
Rowena Mason and Kevin Rawlinson https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/government-confirms-400000-turkish-gowns-are-useless-for-nhs
A cabinet minister has confirmed that 400,000 gowns from Turkey to protect medics from coronavirus have been impounded because they were poor quality, but he insisted “strong supplies” were now coming through to the frontline.
The personal protective equipment (PPE) from Turkey was heralded by ministers several weeks ago as “a very significant” shipment that would ease a shortage of gowns in the NHS, but the delivery turned into a shambles after it was repeatedly delayed.
In a final blow to the government, Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, acknowledged on Thursday that the gowns had in fact been useless for medical purposes.
“There was a view that it was good enough PPE. It is only when it has got here that teams have looked at it again and taken a view that it is not up to the right standard and they’ve decided not to use it,” he said.
“I think it is right that if we have got particular standards for what we want our frontline staff to be able to have access to we make sure we stick to that.
“If something isn’t right, if we’re not even sure about it then I think it is better to be safe and not use that product and stick with products we are confident are the right products and the right standards.”
Speaking on Sky News, he attempted to downplay the significance of the Turkish shipment, saying it was just one delivery.
“We’ve got some really strong supplies now coming through but we’re always looking to ensure they are good enough,” he said.
However, he was unable to say whether the Department of Health and Social Care would be able to get its money back, and why samples of the equipment were not checked before the transaction happened.
The items are currently being held in a facility near Heathrow airport and sources said the DHSC intended to seek a refund, as it has done in similar situations in the past.
The announcement of the shipment by the communities secretary, Robert Jenrick, on 18 April came at a time when unions and professional bodies were warning that NHS staff may refuse to work without PPE.
Jenrick told the daily Downing Street press briefing that healthcare workers should be “assured that we are doing everything we can to correct this issue”, saying they would have the equipment they “need and deserve”.
Sources later told the Guardian that the DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.
The necessary clearances, it turned out, had not been sought. When the consignment did not arrive on time as promised, the delay prompted hospital leaders to directly attack the government for the first time during the pandemic.
Ministers responded by saying they thought it may only a one-day delay. Two days later, with the shipment only then beginning to clear Turkish customs checks, they were only able to give an estimate of arrival “in the next few days”.
The first planeload of gowns eventually arrived on 22 April, but the next day it was reported that “less than a 10th” of the order had arrived. Now all are expected to be returned.
Minister Brandon Lewis says much-heralded shipment fell below medical standard
Rowena Mason and Kevin Rawlinson https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/government-confirms-400000-turkish-gowns-are-useless-for-nhs
A cabinet minister has confirmed that 400,000 gowns from Turkey to protect medics from coronavirus have been impounded because they were poor quality, but he insisted “strong supplies” were now coming through to the frontline.
The personal protective equipment (PPE) from Turkey was heralded by ministers several weeks ago as “a very significant” shipment that would ease a shortage of gowns in the NHS, but the delivery turned into a shambles after it was repeatedly delayed.
In a final blow to the government, Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, acknowledged on Thursday that the gowns had in fact been useless for medical purposes.
“There was a view that it was good enough PPE. It is only when it has got here that teams have looked at it again and taken a view that it is not up to the right standard and they’ve decided not to use it,” he said.
“I think it is right that if we have got particular standards for what we want our frontline staff to be able to have access to we make sure we stick to that.
“If something isn’t right, if we’re not even sure about it then I think it is better to be safe and not use that product and stick with products we are confident are the right products and the right standards.”
Speaking on Sky News, he attempted to downplay the significance of the Turkish shipment, saying it was just one delivery.
“We’ve got some really strong supplies now coming through but we’re always looking to ensure they are good enough,” he said.
However, he was unable to say whether the Department of Health and Social Care would be able to get its money back, and why samples of the equipment were not checked before the transaction happened.
The items are currently being held in a facility near Heathrow airport and sources said the DHSC intended to seek a refund, as it has done in similar situations in the past.
The announcement of the shipment by the communities secretary, Robert Jenrick, on 18 April came at a time when unions and professional bodies were warning that NHS staff may refuse to work without PPE.
Jenrick told the daily Downing Street press briefing that healthcare workers should be “assured that we are doing everything we can to correct this issue”, saying they would have the equipment they “need and deserve”.
Sources later told the Guardian that the DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.
The necessary clearances, it turned out, had not been sought. When the consignment did not arrive on time as promised, the delay prompted hospital leaders to directly attack the government for the first time during the pandemic.
Ministers responded by saying they thought it may only a one-day delay. Two days later, with the shipment only then beginning to clear Turkish customs checks, they were only able to give an estimate of arrival “in the next few days”.
The first planeload of gowns eventually arrived on 22 April, but the next day it was reported that “less than a 10th” of the order had arrived. Now all are expected to be returned.
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The key issue here is not that the gowns turned out not to be fit for purpose, but the way in which the government is attempting to manage the PPE narrative.
This also applies to the magical 100,000 testing figure.
The resources that are being deployed to managing the various government media campaigns would be better utilised in working towards the provision of real solutions that help patients and carers rather than engaging in clumsy propaganda.
This also applies to the magical 100,000 testing figure.
The resources that are being deployed to managing the various government media campaigns would be better utilised in working towards the provision of real solutions that help patients and carers rather than engaging in clumsy propaganda.
Probably your best post during this plandemic Goosey. Key word. Propaganda.
what have they been using then? Apparently the ppe supply was desparate 2 weeks ago
May 7, 2020 -- 10:24AM, Angoose wrote:
The key issue here is not that the gowns turned out not to be fit for purpose, but the way in which the government is attempting to manage the PPE narrative.This also applies to the magical 100,000 testing figure.The resources that are being deployed to managing the various government media campaigns would be better utilised in working towards the provision of real solutions that help patients and carers rather than engaging in clumsy propaganda.
This makes no sense whatsoever. The government was forced into holding a daily briefing by the media early into the crisis. It was all over the news that gowns were down to a critical level at the time. Do you think saying the NHS was doing it's best would have satisfied the baying media at this point?
Jenrick told the daily Downing Street press briefing that healthcare workers should be “assured that we are doing everything we can to correct this issue”, saying they would have the equipment they “need and deserve”.
Sources later told the Guardian that the DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.
Sources later told the Guardian that the DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.
I'm sure the civil service, NHS and government would prefer to be left alone to get on with it, unfortunately there's this recent phenomenon of virtue signalling and people desperate for attention that they look for any problem, exaggerate it to the nth degree to demonstrate how much they 'care'.
I'm sure that the government would very much like that they were not subjected to scrutiny.
Was Jenrick engaging in "virtue signalling" when he opted to ignore the advise he received ?
I think a lot of countries got caught with snide gear tbf.
However,when that plane went out,it makes sense to me that some one official like who knew their PPE should have been on the plane and refused them on inspection in Turkey itself.
However,when that plane went out,it makes sense to me that some one official like who knew their PPE should have been on the plane and refused them on inspection in Turkey itself.
Indeed, if you were taking supplies from a supplier who wasn't already in your supply chain, it would have been prudent to have an inspector on the plane to perform a sample check prior to loading.
May 7, 2020 -- 10:43AM, Angoose wrote:
I'm sure that the government would very much like that they were not subjected to scrutiny.
You're trying to claim that saying they were expecting a delivery of PPE from Turkey was propaganda. 1) it was factually correct and 2) the media forces them into giving some kind of commentary. It was political yes but not propaganda.
propaganda [NOUN]
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
Jenrick chose to publicise that particular shipment, no one put a gun to his head or kidnapped his wife and children.
He made the choice, apparently against advice.
He made the choice, apparently against advice.
'we are fully geared up for a pandemic and this country has exceptional testing capacity and expertise'
May 7, 2020 -- 10:50AM, Cider wrote:
What is the political cause or point of view then?
Even you can figure that one out, he was attempting to convince the public that the government was on top of the PPE issue.
There is a lot of propaganda going about to get people to stay home.
Hospitals will overrun (Nightingale mothballed as empty), there no PPE (only in isolated cases), 500,000 will die (taking the biggest number from the research) all over the press in order to scare the population.
The people that really know the dangers like Professor 'Lockdown' Ferguson and the Scottish Chief Medical Officer knew that it was all about messaging rather than the science and went against their own advise ignoring the lockdown.
Hospitals will overrun (Nightingale mothballed as empty), there no PPE (only in isolated cases), 500,000 will die (taking the biggest number from the research) all over the press in order to scare the population.
The people that really know the dangers like Professor 'Lockdown' Ferguson and the Scottish Chief Medical Officer knew that it was all about messaging rather than the science and went against their own advise ignoring the lockdown.
I'm apolitical I don't for one minute think Labour would have coped better with this situation.
I'm just sick of politics full stop.
I'd rather hear the truth however unpleasant than the usual sugar coated p1sh I'm fed by govts and opposition alike.
I'm just sick of politics full stop.
I'd rather hear the truth however unpleasant than the usual sugar coated p1sh I'm fed by govts and opposition alike.
May 7, 2020 -- 10:51AM, Angoose wrote:
May 7, 2020 -- 9:50AM, Cider wrote:What is the political cause or point of view then?Even you can figure that one out, he was attempting to convince the public that the government was on top of the PPE issue.
That's not a political cause or point of view, clearly. The political judgement was that they would need to provide more information than simply providing platitudes.
If you were Robert Jenrick, would you have overruled those advising you and highlighted the shipment from Turkey ?
And the fact it went wrong speaks to why they generally stick to platitudes.
He took a calculated political risk Angoose. It's not hard to understand or comprehend.
At the time I thought to myself he was taking a major risk. For him, at the time he must have thought that was better than platitudes. He should have provided caveats.
after 2 days tial in isle of white
handjob hancok handing a 3,8 million contract to a software firm to adapt handjobs app to apple etc
the absolute total shoie show continues unabated on a daily basis
handjob hancok handing a 3,8 million contract to a software firm to adapt handjobs app to apple etc
the absolute total shoie show continues unabated on a daily basis
May 7, 2020 -- 10:59AM, Cider wrote:
At the time I thought to myself he was taking a major risk. For him, at the time he must have thought that was better than platitudes. He should have provided caveats.
What would those caveats looked like ?
I completely disagree that it's anywhere close to propaganda. Desperation maybe.
good job we,re ready to cast off alone as a world power on the good ship Brexit in jan 
May 7, 2020 -- 11:01AM, Angoose wrote:
May 7, 2020 -- 9:59AM, Cider wrote:At the time I thought to myself he was taking a major risk. For him, at the time he must have thought that was better than platitudes. He should have provided caveats.What would those caveats looked like ?
We've not been able to assess the quality? It's not yet taken off, so it's not guaranteed yet but we're very hopeful?
Just take it out of the international aid to Turkey, simples innit.
"We've goy some gowns on the way, they may be late and they may be not fit for purpose, but tryst us, we know what we are doing"
Cider, I set you up to provide a dumb answer, but you certainly exceeded my expectations.
Have you operated in real business life Angoose? You don't need to answer of course, but what industries have/do you work in? You come across as being sheltered to the realities of operations.
Another excellent post, things are indeed looking up on here.
stridingedge07 May 20 09:53Joined: 14 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 56,407 | Blogger: stridingedge's blog
I'm apolitical I don't for one minute think Labour would have coped better with this situation.
I'm just sick of politics full stop.
I'd rather hear the truth however unpleasant than the usual sugar coated p1sh I'm fed by govts and opposition alike.
stridingedge07 May 20 09:53Joined: 14 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 56,407 | Blogger: stridingedge's blog
I'm apolitical I don't for one minute think Labour would have coped better with this situation.
I'm just sick of politics full stop.
I'd rather hear the truth however unpleasant than the usual sugar coated p1sh I'm fed by govts and opposition alike.
Yes I have, 25 years in finance positions, mostly in oil and gas, spread across five continents, five years as managing director of a number of engineering workshops spread throughout the middle east. So, I do know a bit about running a business, having spend many years at the sharp end.
That makes your posting on here even more ridiculous, as just blatantly biased and obtuse it seems. What was the point of this thread when you would have known the delivery could not have been fully inspected without being delayed.
That s poor Cider, i imagine anyone worth their salt could have opened a random selection of boxes and knew they weren't fit for purpose straight away.
May 7, 2020 -- 10:48AM, Angoose wrote:
Indeed, if you were taking supplies from a supplier who wasn't already in your supply chain, it would have been prudent to have an inspector on the plane to perform a sample check prior to loading.
Cider, read my earlier post again, I know a little bit about supply chain management.
Exactly my point. Ignoring reality to attempt to score political points. I'm assuming they had a massive challenge getting the stuff out of Turkey never mind inspecting thousands of boxes for the required quality standards on different PPE. They've decided it's prudent to more prudent to move the stuff than delay it any longer than necessary.
2 million useless tests
400,000 useless gowns plus all the other substandard and out of date ppe,handjobs bought
4 million to upgrade is app 48 hrs after its fanfare launch
100,s of millions on unused nightingale hospitals
.
dont you just long for the days when torys used to make headline news accusing labour of paying 10p and a £1 for paperclips and lightbulbs instead of 14P and £1.50
400,000 useless gowns plus all the other substandard and out of date ppe,handjobs bought
4 million to upgrade is app 48 hrs after its fanfare launch
100,s of millions on unused nightingale hospitals
.dont you just long for the days when torys used to make headline news accusing labour of paying 10p and a £1 for paperclips and lightbulbs instead of 14P and £1.50
In all probability all they had to do was open a single box and would have realised it wasn't up to scratch, 10 minute delay possibly.
Cider, take a look at your post of 11:02, pause and reflect on the words that you chose to write, consider what you stated a government minister should have said in regard to an "urgent" shipment of PPE.
Seriously, I would stop digging if I was you, the hole is big enough already.
Seriously, I would stop digging if I was you, the hole is big enough already.
And you continue to display your ignorance in regard to sampling.
tbh i would prefer to open up a box of marching powder in front of a dealer, rather than an Ottoman with a barbers comb
If he felt politically he needed to mention the order, he should have added caveats. Unfortunately for you, maybe, but I'm not in any kind of metaphorical hole.
Most countries will be purchasing massive quantities of equipment, and no doubt experiencing the same problems on arrival, the idea that you check every plane load BEFORE it arrives is ridiculous.
May 7, 2020 -- 11:29AM, Angoose wrote:
And you continue to display your ignorance in regard to sampling.
So you're going to reject an entire consignment of potentiality life saving PPE on the basis of sampling? And potentially leave behind something that could be used? With someone of your experience, that's very naive to the reality of this particular scenario.
How Potlis? so easy for 1 person to go on the flight out,check a few samples,what else are they doing?
potlis, no one on this thread has suggested that you check every plane load BEFORE it arrives, here is what I wrote
"Indeed, if you were taking supplies from a supplier who wasn't already in your supply chain, it would have been prudent to have an inspector on the plane to perform a sample check prior to loading."
"Indeed, if you were taking supplies from a supplier who wasn't already in your supply chain, it would have been prudent to have an inspector on the plane to perform a sample check prior to loading."
May 7, 2020 -- 11:35AM, Cider wrote:
May 7, 2020 -- 10:29AM, Angoose wrote:And you continue to display your ignorance in regard to sampling.So you're going to reject an entire consignment of potentiality life saving PPE on the basis of sampling? And potentially leave behind something that could be used? With someone of your experience, that's very naive to the reality of this particular scenario.
What would testing a sample of gowns very quickly have told you in regard to this specific shipment ?
That in a medical emergency I wouldn't reject an entire consignment on the basis of sampling. We're looking at this from an emergency perspective, obviously if it was just commercial considerations it would have been handled differently.
What parson? They would need to be fully qualified to judge if the goods met the appropriate UK standards, and with goods arriving from many countries, where are all these experts.
Angoose was free, in between copying and pasting from the Guardian.
May 7, 2020 -- 11:43AM, Cider wrote:
That in a medical emergency I wouldn't reject an entire consignment on the basis of sampling. We're looking at this from an emergency perspective, obviously if it was just commercial considerations it would have been handled differently.
Can you explain why a failed random sample would not provide a strong mathematical probability of the remainder of the shipment also being faulty?
And remind us, how many of the gowns have now been cleared for use in the NHS ?
And tell us if you believe that each and every one was inspected or if sampling techniques were employed.
Surely the check is done prior to ordering. You need gowns, put a tender out stating your requirements and await replies. Turkish company offers at a competitive price. Then you want to check. Surely you either get someone from the Embassy to go to the factory or get a box DHL'd there same day to sample. Liaise with experts and check that it is the required standard. If it's not, then tell them to do one.
Checks can and should be done way up the chain really.
Checks can and should be done way up the chain really.
You saying the UK haven't got many PPE experts or only a few Potlis?
If so why not?,i won't think it is rocket science to differentiate between good and snidey PPE,even a fairly junior lackey might have spotted they weren't pukka.
If so why not?,i won't think it is rocket science to differentiate between good and snidey PPE,even a fairly junior lackey might have spotted they weren't pukka.
How do we now know they are faulty, was a coin flicked and it came up heads for sub-standard ?
correct me if i am wrong; but didn't the government make a statement back then saying the delay to the flight from Ottoman land was delayed due to checking the goods?
I'm not answering questions you already know the answer to Angoose. It's simple really. The ONLY thing they could potentially lose by shipping it over first is money. If you're putting financial considerations in front of public health, I'm really doubting your socialist credentials. Or, probably more accurately you're forgoing your usual moralities to use it as another opportunity to attempt political point scoring.
think i read the company they bought PPE didnt have an export licence 
If that is the case Bap,it is pure incompetence then, someone sent out checkers which couldn't check.
Wed 22 April
Asked what the hold-up was, the spokesman said: "I don't have the details of the reason for the delay. As I say, we want it to be resolved as quickly as possible and the RAF is able to then bring the cargo back to the UK."
Asked what the hold-up was, the spokesman said: "I don't have the details of the reason for the delay. As I say, we want it to be resolved as quickly as possible and the RAF is able to then bring the cargo back to the UK."
That a was a red flag in itself NE Correspondent,no one else in the world wanted them.
Lapsy, we just happen to be picking on this consignment of PPE but taken to its logical conclusion we would need to inspect every shipment so what about ventilators, drugs, etc, thats not coming from our usual suppliers.
May 7, 2020 -- 11:58AM, Cider wrote:
I'm not answering questions you already know the answer to Angoose. It's simple really. The ONLY thing they could potentially lose by shipping it over first is money. If you're putting financial considerations in front of public health, I'm really doubting your socialist credentials. Or, probably more accurately you're forgoing your usual moralities to use it as another opportunity to attempt political point scoring.
Would it have been helpful to know at the earliest possible stage that the gowns you had already allocated to be distributed would not be distributed?
aye itmust have been the export license checking; amonst other 'things'
"The plane had been dispatched from RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, where two other aircraft have been on standby to pick up further supplies from Turkey since late on 20 April.
The Department of Health and Social Care was blamed for failing to secure the necessary export approvals from Turkey after placing the order, but health sources said on 22 April that there were other reasons for the delay.
The supplier had contacted the NHS on 16 April to say it could make the 400,000 gowns, and the UK placed an order on 17 April, paying a deposit to secure delivery. But almost immediately it was told there was an unexpected manufacturing delay.
Originally three RAF transport planes had been on standby to pick up the equipment, but in desperation a single plane was sent to Istanbul on 20 April to pick up whatever was available, finally heading back the following night.
The planes remain on standby at RAF Brize Norton and may fly to Istanbul imminently if there is enough equipment waiting to make the journey worthwhile. “We’ve been told there is another delivery at the airport now, but we are not yet sure if there’s enough to justify a flight,” a defence source said.
Turkish sources said they had done everything they could to expedite the shipment, but said Britain had not asked for export approval until 19 and 20 April. Like many other countries, Turkey has placed controls on the export of medical equipment in the light of the coronavirus crisis.
Meanwhile, in a round of broadcast interviews, Whately failed to explain why offers of PPE sitting in British warehouses were being ignored in many cases, including 16m face masks identified by the Gruniad"
"The plane had been dispatched from RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, where two other aircraft have been on standby to pick up further supplies from Turkey since late on 20 April.
The Department of Health and Social Care was blamed for failing to secure the necessary export approvals from Turkey after placing the order, but health sources said on 22 April that there were other reasons for the delay.
The supplier had contacted the NHS on 16 April to say it could make the 400,000 gowns, and the UK placed an order on 17 April, paying a deposit to secure delivery. But almost immediately it was told there was an unexpected manufacturing delay.
Originally three RAF transport planes had been on standby to pick up the equipment, but in desperation a single plane was sent to Istanbul on 20 April to pick up whatever was available, finally heading back the following night.
The planes remain on standby at RAF Brize Norton and may fly to Istanbul imminently if there is enough equipment waiting to make the journey worthwhile. “We’ve been told there is another delivery at the airport now, but we are not yet sure if there’s enough to justify a flight,” a defence source said.
Turkish sources said they had done everything they could to expedite the shipment, but said Britain had not asked for export approval until 19 and 20 April. Like many other countries, Turkey has placed controls on the export of medical equipment in the light of the coronavirus crisis.
Meanwhile, in a round of broadcast interviews, Whately failed to explain why offers of PPE sitting in British warehouses were being ignored in many cases, including 16m face masks identified by the Gruniad"
Wasn’t the Government getting some stick, shortly after the PPE arrived, because it only contained 50% of what was ordered, looks like a result now
& i will ask the question again: what have they been using?
I am starting to think Cider has taken over Insider Traders profile
Cider just for the record could you kindly confirm you are not Insider Trader or his son?
You are the only person defending the incompetence of these clowns, even impossible123 tries to kept quiet. Insider Trader like some of the Tory Party is now a committed Socialist.
Are you just making stupid posts' so you can laugh at our indignation or do you really believe anything you post? I have long thought the former for some time I do confess.
Cider just for the record could you kindly confirm you are not Insider Trader or his son?
You are the only person defending the incompetence of these clowns, even impossible123 tries to kept quiet. Insider Trader like some of the Tory Party is now a committed Socialist.
Are you just making stupid posts' so you can laugh at our indignation or do you really believe anything you post? I have long thought the former for some time I do confess.
It's adds a bit of fun and distraction while I'm 'working' to challenge the default loonie leftie majority on online fourms and the like, when the real life majority is categorically demonstrated to be the opposite.
To be fair to Impossible i think he realised the goverment weren't acting in his best interest when they said there was no need to panic buy and he went shopping in a supermarket with empty shelves 2 months ago.
@cider.. all i can see here is you digging yourself a bottomless pit which you will never be able to get out of ...
there4 my recommendation is to go and get another crate of strongbow and give your elbows a rest
there4 my recommendation is to go and get another crate of strongbow and give your elbows a rest
Another poster with a mythical pit or hole. If you think I need people to agree with me on here, you're sadly mistaken 
When they resort to posting about your forum name you can safely conclude to having gained some moderate success ;)
When they resort to posting about your forum name you can safely conclude to having gained some moderate success ;)
@cider
If you think for one minute all of us posting give a flying fcuk about the continual punch and judy show which you refer to as politics then you need a fcuking barrel of the stuff not a crate
If you think for one minute all of us posting give a flying fcuk about the continual punch and judy show which you refer to as politics then you need a fcuking barrel of the stuff not a crate
Just another check in the Apalling Government Handling column. Maybe we should get a few more pics of Baby Boris out to break the narrative.
May 7, 2020 -- 12:35PM, John.W.Henry. wrote:
@ciderIf you think for one minute all of us posting give a flying fcuk about the continual punch and judy show which you refer to as politics then you need a fcuking barrel of the stuff not a crate
Given this, it's not clear why you felt inclined to post nonsense directed at me. Was is to demonstrate that you clearly don't give a flying fcuk> If so, it failed
Whisperingdeath
07 May 20 11:09
Joined: 25 Dec 11
| Topic/replies: 27,384 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I am starting to think Cider has taken over Insider Traders profile
Cider just for the record could you kindly confirm you are not Insider Trader or his son?
You are the only person defending the incompetence of these clowns, even impossible123 tries to kept quiet. Insider Trader like some of the Tory Party is now a committed Socialist.
^
I aint a socialist.
I am against science being used for policy when 'scientists' have had their research funded by vested interests.
It leads to things like lockdown happening when their was no scientific evidence they would make any difference once the virus is windspread in the community. The 'scientists' know this and that is why they ignore the policies drawn up due to their advise.
We need to get vested interests and lobby groups out of government policy. That means no more hedge funds or unions financing politicians. Campaigns need to be funded and limited to a fixed amount out from the Treasury.
07 May 20 11:09
Joined: 25 Dec 11
| Topic/replies: 27,384 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I am starting to think Cider has taken over Insider Traders profile
Cider just for the record could you kindly confirm you are not Insider Trader or his son?
You are the only person defending the incompetence of these clowns, even impossible123 tries to kept quiet. Insider Trader like some of the Tory Party is now a committed Socialist.
^
I aint a socialist.
I am against science being used for policy when 'scientists' have had their research funded by vested interests.
It leads to things like lockdown happening when their was no scientific evidence they would make any difference once the virus is windspread in the community. The 'scientists' know this and that is why they ignore the policies drawn up due to their advise.
We need to get vested interests and lobby groups out of government policy. That means no more hedge funds or unions financing politicians. Campaigns need to be funded and limited to a fixed amount out from the Treasury.
the Turkish provider just been on bbc and took johnsons advice and threw handjobs letter of complaint into the bin
@cider.
I sensed you had dug yourself a deep enuff hole and tried to throw you a rope. You chose to hang yourself.... so be it
I sensed you had dug yourself a deep enuff hole and tried to throw you a rope. You chose to hang yourself.... so be it
I do not understand the bad feeling directed against insider trader ?
I do not agree with all he posts but i feel he does it with the best of intentions and i do not feel he is offensive against others. unlike myself
I do not agree with all he posts but i feel he does it with the best of intentions and i do not feel he is offensive against others. unlike myself
I obviously dont see that as i have no side unless the monster raving loony party have a candidate i dont even vote. 
stay around these shores long enough, JW ye will soon get the drift
Bap. I cannot engage in political debate. I just do not have an opinion. I know that may sound sad as fcuk but that is the way i see it. Clown departs stage left , clown enters stage right. In addition any politician that could make a difference either gets shot or gets shot so there it is. #100%conspiracytheorist but i can laugh a myself as i do realise there is very little i can do personally about anything. just mount a soap box occasionally
In addition any politician that could make a difference either gets shot or gets shot so there it is. #100%conspiracytheorist but i can laugh a myself as i do realise there is very little i can do personally about anything. just mount a soap box occasionally
good way to be, JW but there are those (including me) who are i little more voiciferous
May 7, 2020 -- 3:33PM, John.W.Henry. wrote:
@cider.I sensed you had dug yourself a deep enuff hole and tried to throw you a rope. You chose to hang yourself.... so be it
You're obsessed with holes. Not the right type I fear
Try booking a shipping container in Istanbul at the moment. Acquaintance of mine was told the earlist slot was 31st May acouple of days ago! Eventually managed to find room on a shipment on the 18th.
CH4 exposing the out of date PPE the UK had at the start of the pandemic.
grayling hiring ferry companies with no ferries
multi million pound ppe order to a Turkish tee shirt maker,
250 million pound school kids free meals voucher scheme to a company with less than a million turnover last year
APP design that doesn't work on 2 yr old phones
delloite doing home,mobile testing that's a complete car crash
and the tory,s/right wing will continue to tell us private does it best
multi million pound ppe order to a Turkish tee shirt maker,
250 million pound school kids free meals voucher scheme to a company with less than a million turnover last year
APP design that doesn't work on 2 yr old phones
delloite doing home,mobile testing that's a complete car crash
and the tory,s/right wing will continue to tell us private does it best
Chinese anti body tests as simple to use as pregnancy tests
£20 million spaffed up the wall Boris?
£20 million spaffed up the wall Boris?
Using home made computer program to model pandemic outcomes that even Microsoft boffins cannot fux
Shipping thousands of old folk out of hospital to die of corona virus and not allowing care homes to get them readmitted nor the other victims in care homes who would go on to contract corona
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