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01 May 20
19:50
Joined:
Date Joined:
06 Jul 10
maybe things are not what they appear...?
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The figure includes home test kits counted when they were dispatched, which may not yet have been taken.
nice job when your 1st test of the day is your 40,001st 
Prior to 28 April, there was no reference to how tests were counted, but on 28 April guidance on the government website said home tests and satellite tests were being included.
At the daily Downing Street briefing, Prof John Newton - a scientist advising the government on testing - said there had been "no change to the way tests are counted".
"As we've developed new ways of delivering tests, we've taken advice from officials as to how they should be counted," he said.
"So, the tests that are done within the control of the programme - which is the great majority - are counted when the tests are undertaken in our laboratories.
"But, for any test which goes outside the control of the programme, they're counted when they leave the programme - so that's the tests that are mailed out to people at home and the test that's gone out on the satellite."
At the daily Downing Street briefing, Prof John Newton - a scientist advising the government on testing - said there had been "no change to the way tests are counted".
"As we've developed new ways of delivering tests, we've taken advice from officials as to how they should be counted," he said.
"So, the tests that are done within the control of the programme - which is the great majority - are counted when the tests are undertaken in our laboratories.
"But, for any test which goes outside the control of the programme, they're counted when they leave the programme - so that's the tests that are mailed out to people at home and the test that's gone out on the satellite."
This target was always going to be 'achieved' one way or another.
on only fools last week,grandad through all dels leaflets in the bin,del boy considered them delivered
i look forward to 3.1 million results in may then, as promised and then its only
2 years to get testing done for whole country
2 years to get testing done for whole country
What happened to the Anti Body tests that were ready to go ??
I suppose labour would have 60 million done in A month D , Steptoe and Di would have sorted it
default tory answer
what would starmer have done had johnson not hidden at pmqs again?
what would starmer have done had johnson not hidden at pmqs again?
Interesting isn't it how the drones are taken in by the talking point of the day..
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump).
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump).
casemoney right about people getting tests for the sake of it
amongst all hancocks carnage number crunching today,the lesson to be learned surely is all those respecting lockdown not been anywhere near transport,hospital, care sector,and thinking they've had the virus almost certainly havnt, maybe they need to revisit how many people in the community have actually had it,probably a lot less than 1st thought and this when R was well above 1
amongst all hancocks carnage number crunching today,the lesson to be learned surely is all those respecting lockdown not been anywhere near transport,hospital, care sector,and thinking they've had the virus almost certainly havnt, maybe they need to revisit how many people in the community have actually had it,probably a lot less than 1st thought and this when R was well above 1
nhs and ventilators were not overwhelmed because the tories decided to leave old folk in care homes to
die in agony
not allowed to go to hospital
idiot plan from a clown prime minister
tory lap dog poster fresh off whack job websites considers it a success
die in agony
not allowed to go to hospital
idiot plan from a clown prime minister
tory lap dog poster fresh off whack job websites considers it a success
Give me some examples of people who were banned from going to hospital and died in agony as a result.
not just taken not taken in,removed from hospitals back in to care sector,whistleblowers everywhere,but as with all public sector workforcers,grudges,scores to be settled, politics behind everything, not to say its not true
Give me some examples of people who were banned from going to hospital and died in agony as a result.
Any link will do to start us off.
Any link will do to start us off.
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-04-04/family-of-nurse-who-died-gasping-for-air-call-for-coronavirus-test/
He said the grandfather-of-three had been given only "gloves and a flimsy apron" to protect himself from infection at work, and had isolated himself at home after beginning to show symptoms of the virus a few weeks ago.
Despite paramedics being called out when his condition worsened about a week before his death, he was not admitted to hospital or tested for the virus, a decision the family were surprised by.
At that point he wasn't eating for eight days, he wasn't breathing properly, which you could hear. He was very weak and was complaining about pains but they had told us that his case was mild so he wouldn't be taken into hospital for treatment.
We were like, 'If that's a mild case, then what's the worst case?"
– THOMAS HARVEY JUNIOR, SON
An ambulance was called to the house on Sunday but, despite attempts to resuscitate him, he was pronounced dead.
He said the grandfather-of-three had been given only "gloves and a flimsy apron" to protect himself from infection at work, and had isolated himself at home after beginning to show symptoms of the virus a few weeks ago.
Despite paramedics being called out when his condition worsened about a week before his death, he was not admitted to hospital or tested for the virus, a decision the family were surprised by.
At that point he wasn't eating for eight days, he wasn't breathing properly, which you could hear. He was very weak and was complaining about pains but they had told us that his case was mild so he wouldn't be taken into hospital for treatment.
We were like, 'If that's a mild case, then what's the worst case?"
– THOMAS HARVEY JUNIOR, SON
An ambulance was called to the house on Sunday but, despite attempts to resuscitate him, he was pronounced dead.
trader the nhs was not overwhelmed because it was turned into the national covid service. they turfed out about 15000 old people to care homes to make way, thereby seeding the disease and causing more death. read the nhs covid 19 hospital discharge services requirements documents from 19 march and 2 april. the 2 april document says that patients with covid-19, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic, can be safely cared for in a care home, on the basis of guidance set out in the document. whoops.
even the telegraph covered this story (behind a paywall but you can read the start)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/24/care-homes-ordered-take-patients-suspected-coronavirus-nhs-hospitals/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/24/care-homes-ordered-take-patients-suspected-coronavirus-nhs-hospitals/
insider traitor sat with tun foil hat spouting nonsense again
how come so many thousands died in care homes if they had access to intensive care in hospitals
slaughtered by tory vanity projects
how come so many thousands died in care homes if they had access to intensive care in hospitals
slaughtered by tory vanity projects
sudden onset corona a new thing for you to plaster all over your whack jib sutes
mass failure of phine systems so 10,000 care homes were unable to contact ambulance service to take sufferers
to hospital ?
mass failure of phine systems so 10,000 care homes were unable to contact ambulance service to take sufferers
to hospital ?
----you-have-to-laugh---
01 May 20 20:11
Joined: 06 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 7,582 | Blogger: ----you-have-to-laugh---'s blog
insider traitor sat with tun foil hat spouting nonsense again
how come so many thousands died in care homes if they had access to intensive care in hospitals
slaughtered by tory vanity projects
^^
Everyone country in Europe had the same situation.
Most countries were so focused on hospital capacity, ventalitors and 'lockdown' of the fit and healthy they did not focus enough on the most vulnerable.
Clearly with hindsight it was stupid to lockdown a young family stopping them from going to beach whilst at the same time allowing dozens of different people from different family groups in and out of carehomes. Cooks, cleaners, support stuff, care stuff, doctors, nurses etc all going in and out. Yet people in own homes seeing no one.
But I have yet to see any evidence of this being a 'slaughter' as the sheep like to make out.
01 May 20 20:11
Joined: 06 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 7,582 | Blogger: ----you-have-to-laugh---'s blog
insider traitor sat with tun foil hat spouting nonsense again
how come so many thousands died in care homes if they had access to intensive care in hospitals
slaughtered by tory vanity projects
^^
Everyone country in Europe had the same situation.
Most countries were so focused on hospital capacity, ventalitors and 'lockdown' of the fit and healthy they did not focus enough on the most vulnerable.
Clearly with hindsight it was stupid to lockdown a young family stopping them from going to beach whilst at the same time allowing dozens of different people from different family groups in and out of carehomes. Cooks, cleaners, support stuff, care stuff, doctors, nurses etc all going in and out. Yet people in own homes seeing no one.
But I have yet to see any evidence of this being a 'slaughter' as the sheep like to make out.
no they did not...same old tory lies
they have not all been savaged by 10 years of tory under funding, leaving us in worse position than south africa despite atarting on same curve at same time.
we shipped our old and vunerable out of hospital and refused them re entry
its a national shame
they have not all been savaged by 10 years of tory under funding, leaving us in worse position than south africa despite atarting on same curve at same time.
we shipped our old and vunerable out of hospital and refused them re entry
its a national shame
trader i have just given you details, 15,000 turfed out of hospitals but you being you just ignore the posts. you are the sheep with your refusal to accept basic truths, even the telegraph admonished the government for this.
InsiderTrader • May 1, 2020 8:38 PM BST
Interesting isn't it how the drones are taken in by the talking point of the day..
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
aftertiming
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
aftertiming
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
not parked by dying nhs staff
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
wat?
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
lockdown can safely end if there is widespread accurate testing - how the f-ck can't you grasp that?
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump)
standard rant from you
Interesting isn't it how the drones are taken in by the talking point of the day..
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
aftertiming
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
aftertiming
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
not parked by dying nhs staff
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
wat?
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
lockdown can safely end if there is widespread accurate testing - how the f-ck can't you grasp that?
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump)
standard rant from you
the 2 april document says that patients with covid-19, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic, can be safely cared for in a care home, on the basis of guidance set out in the document.
this policy will have guaranteed seeding covid into care homes
from the telegraph
A Government diktat that NHS hospitals should move hundreds of elderly patients to care homes has been branded “reckless” and blamed for the homes’ soaring coronavirus death rates.
In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested.
Analysis by the Telegraph suggests that the rate of coronavirus deaths accelerated more than twice as fast in care homes than in hospitals in the week beginning 7 April - two and a half weeks after the first policy document was published.
this policy will have guaranteed seeding covid into care homes
from the telegraph
A Government diktat that NHS hospitals should move hundreds of elderly patients to care homes has been branded “reckless” and blamed for the homes’ soaring coronavirus death rates.
In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested.
Analysis by the Telegraph suggests that the rate of coronavirus deaths accelerated more than twice as fast in care homes than in hospitals in the week beginning 7 April - two and a half weeks after the first policy document was published.
dave1357
01 May 20 20:36
Joined: 05 Sep 10
| Topic/replies: 12,493 | Blogger: dave1357's blog
InsiderTrader • May 1, 2020 8:38 PM BST
Interesting isn't it how the drones are taken in by the talking point of the day..
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
aftertiming
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
aftertiming
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
not parked by dying nhs staff
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
wat?
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
lockdown can safely end if there is widespread accurate testing - how the f-ck can't you grasp that?
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump)
standard rant from you
^^
No aftertiming. I have been talking about Sweden as soon as I knew why they were doing what they were doing and why they ignored the Imperial College report that predicted exaggerated numbers of deaths without lockdown.
Do do realise that Neil Ferguson of Imperial college based his who predict on thousands of lines of C code for a flu model he wrote 13 years ago. He promised to give this code to the public despite promising to do so back on March 23rd...
His Twitter:
March 22nd
I’m conscious that lots of people would like to see and run the pandemic simulation code we are using to model control measures against COVID-19. To explain the background - I wrote the code (thousands of lines of undocumented C) 13+ years ago to model flu pandemics...
March 22nd
I am happy to say that @Microsoft and @GitHub are working with @Imperial_JIDEA and @MRC_Outbreak to document, refactor and extend the code to allow others to use without the multiple days training it would currently require (and which we don’t have time to give)...
March 22nd
They are also working with us to develop a web-based front end to allow public health policy makers from around the world to make use of the model in planning. We hope to make v1 releases of both the source and front end in the next 7-10 days...
SINCE THEN NOTHING. WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT EARLY APRIL. NOW MAY.
AS THE WHOLE MODEL THAT DISTRACTED THE WESTERN WORLD FROM PROTECTING THE VULNERABLE GROUPS AND FOCUSING ON ICU CAPACITY AND LOCKDOWN HAS FALLEN APART THE CODE HAS BEEN BURIED.
01 May 20 20:36
Joined: 05 Sep 10
| Topic/replies: 12,493 | Blogger: dave1357's blog
InsiderTrader • May 1, 2020 8:38 PM BST
Interesting isn't it how the drones are taken in by the talking point of the day..
1. Oh we need more ventilators. Government does not have enough they failed. Now we know ventilators are not very effective no more talk of it.
aftertiming
2. Oh we need to lockdown because NHS will be overwhelmed. It was never anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Lockdown of fit young people has cost us billions but no longer a talking point. Critism of Sweden not doing lockdown dropped as they flatten the curve faster than the rest of us without it.
aftertiming
3. Lack of PPE is awful. Government is a disgrace. When people found out it was a world wide problem the issue was parked.
not parked by dying nhs staff
4. Look at carehomes. Isn't it terrible people dying there. When it was pointed out average stay was 2-3 years and lockdown had had no impact on protecting them it was quitely dropped.
wat?
5. Looked at tests. We are not doing enough tests. Now over 100000 are sorted in a day people complain because a 'done' test counts in their mind if someone else does it but if it done by post people dont want to count it. In a couple of days when tests numbers go up and up people will quitely drop this talking point.
lockdown can safely end if there is widespread accurate testing - how the f-ck can't you grasp that?
In the mean time these drones will who follow the media talking points critising the government day by day will never ever ask any questions of China or WHO. No it all Boris' fault in their eyes. Forget the fact every international country has suffered. Lets just blame Boris (and Trump)
standard rant from you
^^
No aftertiming. I have been talking about Sweden as soon as I knew why they were doing what they were doing and why they ignored the Imperial College report that predicted exaggerated numbers of deaths without lockdown.
Do do realise that Neil Ferguson of Imperial college based his who predict on thousands of lines of C code for a flu model he wrote 13 years ago. He promised to give this code to the public despite promising to do so back on March 23rd...
His Twitter:
March 22nd
I’m conscious that lots of people would like to see and run the pandemic simulation code we are using to model control measures against COVID-19. To explain the background - I wrote the code (thousands of lines of undocumented C) 13+ years ago to model flu pandemics...
March 22nd
I am happy to say that @Microsoft and @GitHub are working with @Imperial_JIDEA and @MRC_Outbreak to document, refactor and extend the code to allow others to use without the multiple days training it would currently require (and which we don’t have time to give)...
March 22nd
They are also working with us to develop a web-based front end to allow public health policy makers from around the world to make use of the model in planning. We hope to make v1 releases of both the source and front end in the next 7-10 days...
SINCE THEN NOTHING. WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT EARLY APRIL. NOW MAY.
AS THE WHOLE MODEL THAT DISTRACTED THE WESTERN WORLD FROM PROTECTING THE VULNERABLE GROUPS AND FOCUSING ON ICU CAPACITY AND LOCKDOWN HAS FALLEN APART THE CODE HAS BEEN BURIED.
trader must have blocked me he never answers my posts .....
we are supposedly protecting the vulnerable groups, one of the ways our government did this is by turfing out 15000 old people, a good proportion of whom would have gone back to car homes with the disease.
we are supposedly protecting the vulnerable groups, one of the ways our government did this is by turfing out 15000 old people, a good proportion of whom would have gone back to car homes with the disease.
A Government diktat that NHS hospitals should move hundreds of elderly patients to care homes has been branded “reckless” and blamed for the homes’ soaring coronavirus death rates.
In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested.
Analysis by the Telegraph suggests that the rate of coronavirus deaths accelerated more than twice as fast in care homes than in hospitals in the week beginning 7 April - two and a half weeks after the first policy document was published.
In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested.
Analysis by the Telegraph suggests that the rate of coronavirus deaths accelerated more than twice as fast in care homes than in hospitals in the week beginning 7 April - two and a half weeks after the first policy document was published.
jollyswagman
01 May 20 20:53
Joined: 04 Jul 15
| Topic/replies: 9,046 | Blogger: jollyswagman's blog
trader must have blocked me he never answers my posts .....
we are supposedly protecting the vulnerable groups, one of the ways our government did this is by turfing out 15000 old people, a good proportion of whom would have gone back to car homes with the disease.
^
That I cannot answer and I do not know when it was done. I do know that Imperial College produced a paper that caused massive scare and may have led to this policy (or at least accelerated it). Imperial said we need massive increase in capacity and a lockdown to stop 500000 deaths. The government reacted to that by getting space in hospitals and converting wards to ICU.
15,000 old people...
There are 416,000 people in carehomes in the UK (4% of those over 65 and 16% of those over 85). To answer your question we need to know how many of those 15000 went back to carehomes and how many back to their own homes. Was Covid really put into carehomes by these people to a large extent? Did the thousands who went back to their own homes suffer the same fate with Covid?
I suspect through common sense the covid got into homes through the many staff going in and out. We need to look at other countries who also had 50% of deaths in these carehomes who did not 'send 15000 old people away from hospital'.
01 May 20 20:53
Joined: 04 Jul 15
| Topic/replies: 9,046 | Blogger: jollyswagman's blog
trader must have blocked me he never answers my posts .....
we are supposedly protecting the vulnerable groups, one of the ways our government did this is by turfing out 15000 old people, a good proportion of whom would have gone back to car homes with the disease.
^
That I cannot answer and I do not know when it was done. I do know that Imperial College produced a paper that caused massive scare and may have led to this policy (or at least accelerated it). Imperial said we need massive increase in capacity and a lockdown to stop 500000 deaths. The government reacted to that by getting space in hospitals and converting wards to ICU.
15,000 old people...
There are 416,000 people in carehomes in the UK (4% of those over 65 and 16% of those over 85). To answer your question we need to know how many of those 15000 went back to carehomes and how many back to their own homes. Was Covid really put into carehomes by these people to a large extent? Did the thousands who went back to their own homes suffer the same fate with Covid?
I suspect through common sense the covid got into homes through the many staff going in and out. We need to look at other countries who also had 50% of deaths in these carehomes who did not 'send 15000 old people away from hospital'.
it is in the documents i mentioned, it was nhs policy, the 19/3 and 2/4 documents state it. you do not know when it was done even though i have just told you, more than once as usual.
you dont have a shred of common sense.
the nhs policy resulted in 15,000 people being turfed out and the policy document set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. it is typical of you that you wont admit this will undoubtedly have seeded the disease, instead you continue to deflect and defend the government no matter what. it is pathetic.
(ferguson was predicting about 250,000 deaths not 500,000 from the policy at the time.)
you dont have a shred of common sense.
the nhs policy resulted in 15,000 people being turfed out and the policy document set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. it is typical of you that you wont admit this will undoubtedly have seeded the disease, instead you continue to deflect and defend the government no matter what. it is pathetic.
(ferguson was predicting about 250,000 deaths not 500,000 from the policy at the time.)
Jolly, do you think Ferguson's dreadful unpublished un-peer reviewed paper influenced policy?
Let me repost what I wrote on another thread...
Let me repost what I wrote on another thread...
InsiderTrader
28 Apr 20 20:00
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
With hindsight the key to minimsing the death numbers in every country was to put all your eggs in protecting the old/vulnerable basket and watch that basket like hawk. Billions could have been targeted at solving this given the £3bn a day the lockdown costs.
Tried to call the helpline for people that are most vulnerable and had had an NHS letter. Talked to a computer. No call back in 24 hours. Could be starving with no meds for all they know. Yet 700,000 signed up an NHS community helpers most of whom have been asked to do nothing. Whole thing is a PR sham. Try telling people in care homes the governments' 'we are in it together' PR nonsense is true.
What a complete disaster the whole thing has been from the group think of the 'scientists' who were allowed to influence policy (to the exclusion of any dissenters) and the politicians in every country in Europe and America that hid behind them.
The 'science' led policy has resulted in the quarantining of the younger fitter members of society who have virtually no chance of dying of the virus and the most vulnerable in care homes and the sick in hospital have been left with virtually zero protection.
What a mess of inverted policy throughout the western world.
InsiderTrader
28 Apr 20 20:59
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
We managed to sort out supplies through working the system. But what about the most vulnerable people who absolutely rely on the state to help them?
An example is my wife got a letter on the 10th April from NHS advising she was highly at risk and should isolate for 12 weeks.
10th April! I mean lock down for everyone started on 23rd March. We personally did it a week before that.
What if we had not done our own research?
So fit young people were put under house arrest 18 days before NHS letter to a vulnerable person was received. I hear this has happened to many people who are vulnerable.
Whilst the leading scientists and politicians prance about doing vanity projects like the Excel centre that is empty things like care homes and basics were not properly protected. We clap carers and NHS every week when most are embarrassed they have so little to do because most services are not operating (don't get me wrong those in ICU are doing a massive service).
Governments are fixated with messaging they will not even tell us what the plan is. That Irish PM even turned up surrounded by cameras to do a doctors shift. They are so vain.
These same scientists and politicians that are leading the fight to save us are so thick they caught the virus themselves - like Neil Ferguson (Guy who published a paper on false assumptions that led to lock down of the young), Chris Whitty (Chief medical advisor for the country), Boris Johnson (Prime Minister) and Matt Hancock (Health Secretary).
How can we trust that awesome foursome to get us out this when they could not even look after themselves?
28 Apr 20 20:00
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
With hindsight the key to minimsing the death numbers in every country was to put all your eggs in protecting the old/vulnerable basket and watch that basket like hawk. Billions could have been targeted at solving this given the £3bn a day the lockdown costs.
Tried to call the helpline for people that are most vulnerable and had had an NHS letter. Talked to a computer. No call back in 24 hours. Could be starving with no meds for all they know. Yet 700,000 signed up an NHS community helpers most of whom have been asked to do nothing. Whole thing is a PR sham. Try telling people in care homes the governments' 'we are in it together' PR nonsense is true.
What a complete disaster the whole thing has been from the group think of the 'scientists' who were allowed to influence policy (to the exclusion of any dissenters) and the politicians in every country in Europe and America that hid behind them.
The 'science' led policy has resulted in the quarantining of the younger fitter members of society who have virtually no chance of dying of the virus and the most vulnerable in care homes and the sick in hospital have been left with virtually zero protection.
What a mess of inverted policy throughout the western world.
InsiderTrader
28 Apr 20 20:59
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
We managed to sort out supplies through working the system. But what about the most vulnerable people who absolutely rely on the state to help them?
An example is my wife got a letter on the 10th April from NHS advising she was highly at risk and should isolate for 12 weeks.
10th April! I mean lock down for everyone started on 23rd March. We personally did it a week before that.
What if we had not done our own research?
So fit young people were put under house arrest 18 days before NHS letter to a vulnerable person was received. I hear this has happened to many people who are vulnerable.
Whilst the leading scientists and politicians prance about doing vanity projects like the Excel centre that is empty things like care homes and basics were not properly protected. We clap carers and NHS every week when most are embarrassed they have so little to do because most services are not operating (don't get me wrong those in ICU are doing a massive service).
Governments are fixated with messaging they will not even tell us what the plan is. That Irish PM even turned up surrounded by cameras to do a doctors shift. They are so vain.
These same scientists and politicians that are leading the fight to save us are so thick they caught the virus themselves - like Neil Ferguson (Guy who published a paper on false assumptions that led to lock down of the young), Chris Whitty (Chief medical advisor for the country), Boris Johnson (Prime Minister) and Matt Hancock (Health Secretary).
How can we trust that awesome foursome to get us out this when they could not even look after themselves?
i was questioning ferguson and his team some time ago, that is a deflection to the point being discussed though. besides which, advisers advise, governments govern and the advisers will have set out a range of scenarios then the government would decide what to do. the government are just hiding behind the scientists.
it wasnt ferguson who decided to turf out 15000 vulnerable people from our hospitals thereby seeding the disease into more care homes. that was the government, even the telegraph say it was madness but you will not admit it.
the main problem isnt even ferguson, the pandemic plan was for a flu pandemic, the plan originated in 2005 and the updated versions continued to plan for flu. that is not the current government's fault but their response when they realised this wasnt the flu has been extremely poor and resulted in extra deaths. covid patients should not be treated in hospitals as this spreads the disease. 15000 people should not have been kicked out, many to care homes, again spreading the disease.
i note you also had nothing to say about that nhs worker who wasnt admitted despite asking for any such case.
it wasnt ferguson who decided to turf out 15000 vulnerable people from our hospitals thereby seeding the disease into more care homes. that was the government, even the telegraph say it was madness but you will not admit it.
the main problem isnt even ferguson, the pandemic plan was for a flu pandemic, the plan originated in 2005 and the updated versions continued to plan for flu. that is not the current government's fault but their response when they realised this wasnt the flu has been extremely poor and resulted in extra deaths. covid patients should not be treated in hospitals as this spreads the disease. 15000 people should not have been kicked out, many to care homes, again spreading the disease.
i note you also had nothing to say about that nhs worker who wasnt admitted despite asking for any such case.
jollyswagman
01 May 20 21:49
Joined: 04 Jul 15
| Topic/replies: 9,049 | Blogger: jollyswagman's blog
i was questioning ferguson and his team some time ago, that is a deflection to the point being discussed though. besides which, advisers advise, governments govern and the advisers will have set out a range of scenarios then the government would decide what to do. the government are just hiding behind the scientists.
InsiderTrader
28 Apr 20 20:00
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
What a complete disaster the whole thing has been from the group think of the 'scientists' who were allowed to influence policy (to the exclusion of any dissenters) and the politicians in every country in Europe and America that hid behind them.
The 'science' led policy has resulted in the quarantining of the younger fitter members of society who have virtually no chance of dying of the virus and the most vulnerable in care homes and the sick in hospital have been left with virtually zero protection.
^
I think we are in agreement.
01 May 20 21:49
Joined: 04 Jul 15
| Topic/replies: 9,049 | Blogger: jollyswagman's blog
i was questioning ferguson and his team some time ago, that is a deflection to the point being discussed though. besides which, advisers advise, governments govern and the advisers will have set out a range of scenarios then the government would decide what to do. the government are just hiding behind the scientists.
InsiderTrader
28 Apr 20 20:00
Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 11,816 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
What a complete disaster the whole thing has been from the group think of the 'scientists' who were allowed to influence policy (to the exclusion of any dissenters) and the politicians in every country in Europe and America that hid behind them.
The 'science' led policy has resulted in the quarantining of the younger fitter members of society who have virtually no chance of dying of the virus and the most vulnerable in care homes and the sick in hospital have been left with virtually zero protection.
^
I think we are in agreement.
Surely it would have been reckless to leave 15000 elderly and vulnerable patients in hospitals soon to be inundated with severe Covid cases. So what do you do with them?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't it would seem.
With hindsight using a model based on influenza was probably a mistake as it can severely affect people of all ages, the so-called Spanish flu was more severe in the young. Modelling complex systems is never easy especially when you have unreliable data and always vulnerable to GIGO.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't it would seem.
With hindsight using a model based on influenza was probably a mistake as it can severely affect people of all ages, the so-called Spanish flu was more severe in the young. Modelling complex systems is never easy especially when you have unreliable data and always vulnerable to GIGO.
in 2005 the w h o told the world have a pandemic plan for flu and one for something worse, we chose to only have one for flu, that is the major problem. bozo just happened to be pm when the shtf but his response has been poor.
we should not treat covid in hospitals foinavon as it spreads there, we should have used the nightingales but i dont think they were or are fully staffed or equipped. we kicked out old people with disease and some who may have disease back into the community thereby seeding it.
if you look around the world it is amazing how well many poor or relatively poor countries have done compared to us, the hubris of several major western countries is astounding. lebanon, greece, the czech republic, croatia, senegal, portugal all have lessons we should learn but likely wont because 'we know better'. and i didnt even mention the east asian countries.
we should not treat covid in hospitals foinavon as it spreads there, we should have used the nightingales but i dont think they were or are fully staffed or equipped. we kicked out old people with disease and some who may have disease back into the community thereby seeding it.
if you look around the world it is amazing how well many poor or relatively poor countries have done compared to us, the hubris of several major western countries is astounding. lebanon, greece, the czech republic, croatia, senegal, portugal all have lessons we should learn but likely wont because 'we know better'. and i didnt even mention the east asian countries.
None of those countries have a major international hub like London, Paris, Madrid or New York or thousands of workers from Wuhan like the towns neighboring Milan.
we should have stopped flights, thats another story. we still havent, no doubt you wont say anything bad about that decision either ...
https://twitter.com/endCOVID19/status/1255971365733179398/photo/1
still no face mask compulsion in this country either
still no face mask compulsion in this country either
If you have an international hub like Heathrow or a huge densely populated city like London, all the more reason to take restrictive measures sooner and the notion that this wasn't taken into account by modellers and epidemiologists is complete nonsense. It is a strawman argument.
I find most of the things the Tories are accused of are presented as unique Tory failings when they have clearly been replicated in most comparable countries, or are things they got wrong that would have taken a good deal of foresight to get right.
There is no doubt they fudged this testing target though.
There is no doubt they fudged this testing target though.
Well, the hospitals geared up for Covid, Jolly and I would suspect that the NHS had some input in the planning. Did they knowingly send out patients already infected and how reliable were the tests at that time? Perhaps we don't know for sure or who took the decisions but you would expect that they were individually assessed to see if they were fit to be discharged before being moved. What will come out in the wash? Not a lot I would expect other than blame-shifting.
Labour would have done a worse job, they have zero experience. It's not a Tory thing for me. It's just about whether a country of 66m can produce better or not.
They didn't ban sports events, Arteta did, they said they weren't concerned because they were outdoors. They let concerts go ahead indoors (stereophonics in Cardiff 6k, Lewis Capaldi at wembley arena and aberdeen 12.5k each x 3).
They had advance warning from Italy etc and did nothing. Their press conferences are complete and utter waffle - seriously have a look at Ireland's where they have doctors speak and no politicians near them. Politicians have zero expertise in anything. Politicians speak once a month, not every day in Ireland. It's the same in other European countries, they just look good compared to Trump, which is the only other country you see.
Then you have Boris shaking hands in hospitals and doing press conferences sitting 2 feet away from coughing woman, while telling people to keep 2m distance and then the top 3 people responsible all get the virus.
It's laughable incompetence whether you are left or right. Take the blinkers off and see it for what it is. Constantly talking about how you are 'world leading' in testing, just met 100k target by posting out kits today, always talking about what they're going to do rather than what is happening now, zero data given at press conferences. Really, have a look at other countries' press conferences and compare.
They didn't ban sports events, Arteta did, they said they weren't concerned because they were outdoors. They let concerts go ahead indoors (stereophonics in Cardiff 6k, Lewis Capaldi at wembley arena and aberdeen 12.5k each x 3).
They had advance warning from Italy etc and did nothing. Their press conferences are complete and utter waffle - seriously have a look at Ireland's where they have doctors speak and no politicians near them. Politicians have zero expertise in anything. Politicians speak once a month, not every day in Ireland. It's the same in other European countries, they just look good compared to Trump, which is the only other country you see.
Then you have Boris shaking hands in hospitals and doing press conferences sitting 2 feet away from coughing woman, while telling people to keep 2m distance and then the top 3 people responsible all get the virus.
It's laughable incompetence whether you are left or right. Take the blinkers off and see it for what it is. Constantly talking about how you are 'world leading' in testing, just met 100k target by posting out kits today, always talking about what they're going to do rather than what is happening now, zero data given at press conferences. Really, have a look at other countries' press conferences and compare.
When you give out proper data every day and not waffle, then you get proper questions as well and the public are way more informed. There were some very good questions at the UK presser today because they gave out testing data that was obviously fraudulent and easy to question. That's how you get good questions. Not from Hancock saying 'we are determined...' He was listing off 'great' companies who have helped today, just like Trump. 100% deflection waffle.
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