Chit Chat
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 74 comments are related to the topic:
EVIDENCE BUILDS CORONAVIRUS CAME FROM A CHINESE LAB
EVIDENCE BUILDS CORONAVIRUS CAME FROM A CHINESE LAB
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 74
|
By:
How unusual is it for certain labs to contain specimens of deadly diseases? Very? Fairly? Pretty usual?
My guess is there must be several labs in this country that have various pathogens stored for scientists to study, understand more and try to develop treatments and cures. So are we saying it's perfectly normal that China has the same and it was a mistake of some kind or are we jumping straight to it being a conspiracy to release it from the very top of their government? |
|
By:
If it was just Trump and no one else you might have a case.
But why would someone like Scott Morrison have the same view? Surely Australia would want China as friend given how much they export to them? |
|
By:
pp,
The 'story' is it could have leaked accidentally from a research lab from a lady that worked there through getting bitten or waste products. No one is saying it is man made. No one is saying it was deliberately let out. The suggestion is it was an accident that was then covered up. |
|
By:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/30/us-intelligence-says-covid-19-not-man-made-might-have-escaped-wuhan-virus-lab-12635644/
US intelligence officials say coronavirus is not man made – but may have escaped Wuhan virus lab US intelligence services have announced that Covid-19 is not man-made, but says officials continue to investigate whether the new coronavirus escaped from a laboratory. In a statement released Thursday, the US Office for the Director of National Intelligence confirmed Covid-19 originated in China, and added: ‘The intelligence community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the Covid-19 virus was not man-made or genetically modified.’ The statement said that intelligence chiefs continue to work to try and establish whether the Covid-19 outbreak ‘began through contact with infected animals, or if it was the result of an accident in a laboratory in Wuhan.’ Earlier this month, President Trump refused to deny claims put to him that US intelligence officials believe Covid-19 may have begun spreading after an accident at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That claim centered around an unnamed female intern at the lab – which has received $3.7million of United States government funding – accidentally contaminating herself with the new coronavirus. She is then believed to have traveled to a nearby ‘wet market’, where live animals are slaughtered for food, to meet her boyfriend for a meal. That theory suggests that the virus began to spread from there, with 3.2million confirmed infections and more than 228,000 deaths across the world so far. In 2018, a US intelligence official who visited the Wuhan Institute of Virology sent a cable back to Washington DC warning of potentially dangerous coronavirus experiments being performed on bats – the animal coronavirus is believed to have originated it. It also poor safety procedures in place at the facility, although the US government is not believed to have followed up on that warning. Another theory has speculated whether coronavirus originated at the wet market itself, and jumped from its animal host to a human because of poor hygiene conditions there. The Chinese government has denied claims coronavirus leaked from a lab, although its officials are widely-believed to have lied about the number of people infected and killed by the virus there. |
|
By:
Well, fwiw I've heard plenty of both the man made and deliberate rumours
Every mention of a lab seems to come with some kind of sinister Bond Villain undertone frankly. Good to see you're rising above it. |
|
By:
I get the impression that China is not popular in Oz IT, so was guarded when watching the video. It is more or less the same as an American one posted 2 or three weeks ago.
Porp, hygiene and safety at this lab was known to be lax in the US a couple of years ago. Also there is anecdotal evidence that deceased bats were sold-literally- out of the back door by staff. There is no evidence that live or dead bats were ever sold at that particular market, actually lots of statements to say they were not. |
|
By:
Well, in that case the owners of the lab better get themselves some lawyers.
|
|
By:
The Chinese Gov own it one way or another. Untouchable unless forced to negotiate.
|
|
By:
i dont understand this thread, one way or another it is the fault of the chinese but there is zero chance of getting money off them in recompense.
the only hope is that supply chains are shortened but sadly i heard of a survey of u s corporations and for them it was just carry on as ever once this is over. we really need to bring production closer to home but, sadly, in all likelihood we will all be talking sh1t and arguing over nothing on chinese made computers next year and the year after. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
saddo, whilst the virus almost certainly originated in bats, it almost certainly was passed to another animal and likely transmitted to humans from that other animal. Pangolins have been put forward as a likely candidate.
|
|
By:
50/50 lab leak or else naturally from a bat via an intermediate animal host for me. Nobody s suggesting it came directly from a bat.
What is known is they were studying bat coronaviruses at that lab. They stopped flights into Wuhan but not out after the outbreak. I also suspect they delayed releasing evidence of human to human transmission (20 Jan) until after the trade deal with the US was signed (15 Jan). Trump will get money out of them via increased tariffs and may pressure US companies to move manufacturing/assembly elsewhere and hit them that way. I'm surprised he hasn't played on the lab leak and trade deal non-disclosure issue more but I'm sure he will ramp this up and use it in his election campaign. One thing is for sure I'd much prefer Trump takes them to task than any Democrat. But China mines 80% of the rare earth minerals used in all sorts of electronic and military devices and that is a big ace they hold. They can be produced elsewhere but not for a decade in practical terms. Without them it is like going back to the 80s in terms of technology. |
|
By:
;'/ _/. ¬/, v`/: ).,
|
|
By:
4 mins too late /;":
|
|
By:
My limited understanding is there is/Was two labs, one nearer the market that was a bat lab, the idea there was wild bat's or bat's sold in market appears incorrect. There was no animal found at market or traces of covid found and they were looking and looking for an intermediate host, none were found. The level 4 lab was flagged for going to fast from its inception to carrying out live virus experiments on primates. Its entirely possible some cleaner /low grade personnel got infected unintentionally and transmitted disease.Bitten scratched or simply entered or touched something in a part of the lab that required hazmat suit or someone not trained or in hazmat PPE fvkd up. I think the WHO, the French and various others were involved at the lab, it's complicated imo but people know what's occurred. The horseshoe bat appears responsible for the source but it's not a local species, think I seen the nearest is over 100km from wuhan. If cross species occurred just as a coincidence in market its like dropping a grain of sand in one town and wind blowing it 100km and same grain landing in your own house imo. A tad unlikely. Would like to hear an eminent trusted professor come out and confirm the genetic sequence of sars-cov-2 came from horseshoe bat's. And that the genetic sequence of this outbrake has been carried out independently and it cam from X place, a ground zero.
Would like the Chinese lev4 labs work audited, and confirmation whether there is another lab close to market and what it was doing. Was it carrying out bat virus experiments? |
|
By:
We'll probably never find out Angoose. Not regarded as trustworthy by many, I would think.
You like a good read https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-study-the-human-version-of-sars-cov-2-is-closer-to-the-one-in-bats-than-the-one-in-pangolins/ |
|
By:
That Charles Lieber case is bizarre as well.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university- professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three- separate-china-related |
|
By:
|
|
By:
'Bats are sold in markets and supplied directly to restaurants throughout China and southeast Asia, but no direct evidence of their sale in Wuhan’s wet market has come to light. Also, horseshoe bats, which are much smaller than the tastier fruit bats, are generally not among the species eaten.'
|
|
By:
Actually laughed when I read 'tastier fruit bats'
 |
|
By:
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
|
|
By:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it didn't come from a bat or was engineered from scratch in a lab. But if they were studying these diseases, taken from bats, in the lab, which they apparently were, it could have leaked from the lab.
|
|
By:
I ate bats when I was in China. They serve them in loads of restaurants, even the pricier ones. Been eating them for thousands of years.
|
|
By:
sale of dog and cat meat for human consumption was banned from 1/5 in shenzhen
|
|
By:
This thread started with a link to a news article claiming to have new evidence of the Wuhan lab being responsible for the COVID crisis, yet it produces none.
Trump will have been briefed on the possibility that the lab was responsible, but has he seen conclusive evidence? Or will it be another chloroquine type story, he takes information about a possible treatment for COVID and expands it way above what he was told? |
|
By:
Likely to be f all evidence/proof, the Chinese will not let it happen.
Trump can rely on the fact that they let flights out while banning flights in and have sent spies over on 'student' visas to steal biological samples. China is a belligerent state, even now and if they are not willing to let inspectors in, even moreso. He can sell that to the public like it's a war. They can always come out with the statement that US intelligence is 'confident' (ie no proof) that it came from a lab but he has enough without that. |
|
By:
All these dingbats making excuses for the Chinese, worsest trumpets on ere
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
lurka 01 May 20 23:36
`...Trump can rely on the fact that they let flights out while banning flights in...` It`s worse than that; in full knowledge of what was happening, they stopped all internal flights, so not such a spread within china, but dispatched as many as possible international flights, positively encouraging the worldwide spread and subsequent meltdown. All just a part of mao`s `100-Year Plan` for global domination |
|
By:
French Prime Minister Visits Wuhan P4 Laboratory
Author： Update time： 2017-04-17 Close Text Size: A A A On Feb. 23, French Prime Minister Bernard Cazeneuve visited Wuhan National Biosafety Level 4 (P4) Laboratory in Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), which was his first stop in Wuhan. More than 100 people from different administrative entities including CAS, China National Accreditation Service for Conformity Assessment (CNAS), Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China and French National Institute of Health and Medical Research (INSERM) that have participated in the entire program on Sino-French Cooperation on Emerging Infectious Diseases and provided tremendous help in the past decade attended the activity. Mr. Bernard Cazeneuve attended the ribbon-cutting ceremony and paid a visit to laboratory interior. In his speech, Mr. Cazeneuve declared France is proud of building jointly with China the first national P4 Laboratory. And he added that, as epidemic knows no borders, a united world society is a must to win over the challenge like Ebola to public health in recent years. Wuhan P4 Laboratory will be our front line of emerging infectious diseases prevention and control. France will join hands with China to firmly dedicate to operating top-notch scientific research to response to the diseases. He thanked Chinese government and all the contributors’ extraordinary contributions, and wished more in-depth scientific cooperation on emerging infectious diseases around P4 laboratories will be developed by our two nations. Mr. Yaping Zhang, Vice President of CAS pointed out, that the laboratory will help China to strengthen the capability of preventing and controlling outbreaks of emerging infectious diseases and aid scientific research and development of antiviral drugs and vaccines. He hoped that the laboratory will play an active role in the Sino-French cooperation on prevention and control of emerging infectious diseases, so as to benefit not only our two peoples but also the entire world. According to Mr. Zhiming Yuan, Director of Wuhan P4 Laboratory, China is positively undertaking the responsibility and obligation to ensure global public health security. He emphasized that transparency is the cornerstone of the laboratory, and an open culture is of vital importance to guarantee the security of Wuhan P4 Laboratory. After the visit, Mr. Yves LECY, Director of INSERM, Mr. Hervé RAOUL, Director of Jean Mérieux-Inserm Biosafety Level-4 Laboratory in Lyon, Mr. Dianwen Cao, Vice President of Bureau of International Cooperation, CAS, and stakeholders from CNAS, Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention and WIV attended the Meeting on Sino-French Scientific Cooperation around Biosafety Level 4 Laboratories. The meeting was aimed at upgrading the bilateral strategic and cooperative partnership and further expanding the dimension and depth of cooperation between laboratories in Wuhan and Lyon. Wuhan P4 Laboratory, as one of the mega scientific cooperation programs under the Sino-French Cooperation Framework Agreement, was designed by French and Chinese design units, and was installed and built by Chinese part. The Laboratory has been issued the certificate by CNAS in January and will be fully operational soon. As an essential platform for research and development against high contagious and infectious diseases, it will inevitably provide critical and technical supports for scientists from the world to fight against life-threatening infectious diseases. |
|
By:
The Wuhan labs
Two laboratories in Wuhan studying bat coronaviruses have come under the spotlight. The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) is a biosecurity level 4 facility – the highest for biocontainment – and the level 2 Wuhan Centre for Disease Control, which is located not far from the fish market, had collected bat coronavirus specimens. Several theories have been promoted. The first, and wildest, is that scientists at WIV were engaged in experiments with bat coronavirus, involving so-called gene splicing, and the virus then escaped and infected humans. A second version is that sloppy biosecurity among lab staff and in procedures, perhaps in the collection or disposal of animal specimens, released a wild virus. What about an accidental escape of a wild sample because of poor lab safety practices? The accidental release of a wild sample has been the focus of most attention, although the “evidence” offered is at best highly circumstantial. The Washington Post has reported concerns in 2018 over security and management weakness from US embassy officials who visited the WIV several times, although the paper also conceded there was no conclusive proof the lab was the source of the outbreak. Le Duc, however, paints a different picture of the WIV. “I have visited and toured the new BSL4 laboratory in Wuhan, prior to it starting operations in 2017- … It is of comparable quality and safety measures as any currently in operation in the US or Europe.” He also described encounters with Shi Zhengli, the Chinese virologist at the WIV who has led research into bat coronaviruses, and discovered the link between bats and the Sars virus that caused disease worldwide in 2003, describing her as “fully engaged, very open and transparent about her work, and eager to collaborate”. Maureen Miller, an epidemiologist who worked with Shi as part of a US-funded viral research programme, echoed Le Duc’s assessment. She said she believed the lab escape theory was an “absolute conspiracy theory” and referred to Shi as “brilliant”. Problems with the timeline and map of the spread of the virus When Peter Forster, a geneticist at Cambridge, compared sequences of the virus genome collected early in the Chines outbreak – and later globally – he identified three dominant strains. Early in the outbreak, two strains appear to have been in circulation at roughly at the same time – strain A and strain B – with a C variant later developing from strain B. But in a surprise finding, the version with the closest genetic similarity to bat coronavirus was not the one most prevalent early on in the central Chinese city of Wuhan but instead associated with a scattering of early cases in the southern Guangdong province. Between 24 December 2019 and 17 January 2020, Forster explains, just three out of 23 cases in Wuhan were type A, while the rest were type B. In patients in Guangdong province, however, five out of nine were found to have type A of the virus. “The very small numbers notwithstanding,” said Forster, “the early genome frequencies until 17 January do not favour Wuhan as an origin over other parts of China, for example five of nine Guangdong/Shenzhen patients who had A types.” In other words, it still remains far from certain that Wuhan was even necessarily where the virus first emerged. |
|
By:
^ Better to put up link : (B&B's text )
. http://english.whiov.cas.cn/ne/201802/t20180208_189991.html |
|
By:
^ Angoose's text :
. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/01/could-covid-19-be-manmade-what-we-know-about-origins-trump-chinese-lab-coronavirus |
|
By:
It's easier to read on webpage
|
|
By:
Morning !
|