What does Corona Virus 'RELATED' deaths mean ?

The stats are ‘padded’.

Often they drop the ‘related’ word. Just like they dropped ‘anthropogenic’ from climate change.

Iraq was WMD, then Regime Change, then Democracy.

just consider ALL-CAUSE mortality rates, that's all you need to know
not covid deaths
covid cases
suspected covid deaths or cases
hospital covid deaths
care home covid deaths

everything else is fkin bs propaganda ramping up the fear
still plenty of mugs believing the narrative

when it starts raining i bet the transport slide will go up,and then they will hide it .

they said the had an extra 600 critical beds today,but 600 died in the last 24 hours,

tomorrow they will give the total extra  number of beds and subtract the 600 extra that they said they had today but they will not tell you that they added and subtracted 600 over the last 48 hours.

Is there any point in including care home deaths, hope that doesn't come across as insensitive or anything but, when you are in a care home, you are quite close to the end of your life, where the common flu can kill you, people in care homes are there with 24 hour support because they can no longer look after themselves. Figure also includes NHS workers, how many of these NHS workers did not have adequate protection and were therefore overexposed to the virus hence the governments 60k compensation, admittance of guilt?

The most relevant figure is - the number of people of working age with no serious health issues. Yet not many people in this group appear to be dying, yet country in lockdown, what happens next year if there's a mutation or a new virus strand, we go on like this for years, what is the point, I personally would only expect a lockdown if it were a virus that killed all ages and all health conditions good or bad stone cold dead like the Plague.

BBC and Sky both have the same 'Related' headers, should not be used, give the true figure, the figure where you know for 100% sure that a person has died from the virus, if I had the flu then had a heart attack, I would have died from a heart attack, you wouldn't call it a flu related death.

wondersobright - Agree!   Are you using the ONS figures?

been looking at public health england's weekly reports (released thursdays)

a lot of care home workers are dying also,but again they don't say how many.they try to hide these figures but count them in the total.They try to hide all figures for some reason,and put up slides that say their plan is working.

Wonders - isn't this the source that is being accused of government manipulation?.  Haven't done a like for like comparison but the ONS is surely more independant and includes all the segments that the gov is accused of leaving out.

Padded.

People who died in hospital after testing positive for the virus.

People who died outside hospital who are thought to have been positive for the virus on symptoms or on others in the location who had symptoms.

brassneck - who is "they"

Insider Trader - The ONS numbers are based on what is on the Death Certificate.  My 92 year old mother in law died last week. Her cert has primary cause of death as Pneunomia. She died in a care home with some tested cases of Covid. Her certificate says "possible secondary cause of death Covid-19". She was not tested and her cause of death was formally recorded as Pneumonia period.

blackbarn PHE data reports are for all-cause mortality
ie total deaths for a given period

would be surprised if those figures were being manipulated either up or down

Apr 29, 2020 -- 9:29PM, brassneck wrote:

a lot of care home workers are dying also,but again they don't say how many.they try to hide these figures but count them in the total.They try to hide all figures for some reason,and put up slides that say their plan is working.

Believe me the UK is probably on of the most transparent
They have overstated a lot as Injera states above
In the UK if you die of any ailment and you have tested positive then it is tagged on and you become a stat

Also UK hasn't really locked down so the percentage of immune is possibly quite a bit higher

No point dissecting figures for a few years yet

I am sorry to here that blackbarn.

My understanding from ONS comments below is that they talk about covid being mentioned on the death certificate.

I stand corrected if I am wrong...

Of the deaths registered in Week 16, 8,758 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which is 39.2% of all deaths; this compares with 6,213 (33.6% of all deaths) in Week 15.

In London, over half (55.5%) of deaths registered in Week 16 involved COVID-19; the North West and North East also had a high proportion of COVID-19 deaths, accounting for 42.3% and 41.1% respectively of deaths registered in these regions.

Of deaths involving COVID-19 registered up to Week 16, 77.4% (14,796 deaths) occurred in hospital with the remainder occurring in care homes, private homes and hospices.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending17april2020

Apr 29, 2020 -- 9:47PM, jucel69 wrote:

Also UK hasn't really locked down so the percentage of immune is possibly quite a bit higherNo point dissecting figures for a few years yet

quite a bit higher than other countries

Apr 29, 2020 -- 9:47PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

I am sorry to here that blackbarn.My understanding from ONS comments below is that they talk about covid being mentioned on the death certificate. I stand corrected if I am wrong...Of the deaths registered in Week 16, 8,758 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which is 39.2% of all deaths; this compares with 6,213 (33.6% of all deaths) in Week 15.In London, over half (55.5%) of deaths registered in Week 16 involved COVID-19; the North West and North East also had a high proportion of COVID-19 deaths, accounting for 42.3% and 41.1% respectively of deaths registered in these regions.Of deaths involving COVID-19 registered up to Week 16, 77.4% (14,796 deaths) occurred in hospital with the remainder occurring in care homes, private homes and hospices.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending17april2020

Therefore the govt could really low ball the figures if they wanted to
But they haven't, they have probably overstated

The care homes is difficult and each country is treating them differently

wonders - I agree, but criteria, terms of reference, death dates, registration dates, publication dates etc etc.  Even Geography isn't absolutely clear in some reports.
Wales?, Northern Ireland?.

Belgium really counted so many deaths as Covid they ended up with the worst stats in the world.

Sweden did a similar thing.

It seems the UK is following.

At the same time countries like China might be playing by different rules.

tbh I've found PHE's weekly report to be consistent from week to week
they don't appear to have changed how they present their data since this coronavirus situation emerged

all-cause mortality for the 4 countries of the UK
then broken down by age categories
week 16 report is week 15 data in england (other countries slightly behind but they have been consistently behind in earlier reports)

as far as I can tell the MSM reporting of "covid deaths" has been all over the place
I've heard even suspected covid deaths are being included??? wtf
also its been spiking after weekends & now its including care homes...yadda yadda yadda

the more criteria they introduce the more opportunities there are to fudge a narrative imo

lots of countries are not testing at all, especially 3rd world ones

the stats will be interesting at the end of the year when all these unfortunate victims were forcast to die according to some sourses.if this is the case then the figures will be lower than average?.

nineteen points - What does your 21.18 post mean?

i am saying that i keep hearing about victims who had underlying health problems and would of died soon anyway.their words not mine.

massive majority of deaths occur with underlying health problems...fact

I see little evidence for concluding a lower than average yearly mortality for 2020...on what basis?

This whole thing is really starting to stink ! The way things are being reported in the MSM and the fear that it is generating you would think that the hospitals were overflowing and that we were having to step over bodies in the street ! All these Nightingale hospitals are going to turn out to be the biggest white elephants of all time at this rate !

Does anyone know what people are dying of anymore? its gotten lost in translation for weeks now, no one knows what they're dying off not even the coroners

Like the're not reporting care home deaths, then they are but they ain't testing them all only one's with obvious symptoms, now they are talking about bunging all the deaths into the "covid" death figures without even testing them. People still aren't being tested just being told to stay home if they get any of the 433 symptoms that are listed, started off at 3 but they've added in all kinds of symptoms over the past few weeks, from loss of taste and smell, foot fungus, blisters etc, they know nothing of the virus one minute and the next they know how it spreads and how the body reacts . Now heart attacks could be because of Covid 19 but they don't know because they ain't testing them (USA), do you have headaches and the sweats at night? (Chris Cuomo and Brooke from the CNN gang) because that's corona virus ya know, best stay off for a few weeks. Do you have fatigue? oh well that's corona virus ya know best stay home

Seems to only be affecting the elderly or those with underlying health conditions the most severely, the rest of the cases are mild and clear up in a few days, they've gone from saying it started in March, now it could have been here since December or even earlier, we've all had it one minute, the next we all need to stay in doors and wait for the vaccine.... and on and on and on and on

What to believe? no one sodding knows do they

(deliberately) muddied waters SS...it all adds to the drama in the theatre of the absurd

This ain't incompetence either, its by design, the numbers aren't stacking up to warrant it being a "pandemic" so they are muddying the waters. you've got them adding in "possible covid related" ffs, well is it or isn't it? you can't bung it in with the covid label if you don't know what it is surely?

Are they actually doing a post mortem on these people? for weeks they haven't been counting care home deaths, then all of a sudden the media start pushing that into the public domain because people are questioning the numbers... and then poof! oh look 5000 care home deaths over the past however many weeks just pop up out of nowhere

They've been rumbled and are running round like headless chickens at this point

Now they are trying to collapse the trucking industry in America

They've gone full rogue and they need stopping before more damage is done ffs

What started of as an alone assassin virus has quickly become a mutation of 1000s of diseases, it doesn't just attack the lungs anymore oh no... this thing "runs through the body" like Usain Bolt, destroys the heart, the kidneys, the lungs the whole lot, ends up turning your feet into blister packs before its done

200,000 deaths in 4 months with a virus that attacks everything? I'm sorry but don't you think we'd all be dead with this thing?

It comes out of our farts and s*** as well apparently

A Doctor of over 30 years explains how COVID 19 death certificates are manipulated to fit the narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzoOZC9WT1E

In her own words -  You can be certain the number of deaths is substantially lower than what we are being told. 

My apologies if someone as already posted that link.

Apr 29, 2020 -- 11:21PM, SontaranStratagem wrote:

Now they are trying to collapse the trucking industry in America They've gone full rogue and they need stopping before more damage is done ffs

meat farms over there too

Wonder

Yup. Truckers in America are being absolutely robbed blind, bare in mind they have to travel A LOT over there, all night driving to deliver food and essentials, and they are being offered $1 a mile?!?! some truckers are going on strike as they can't survive.

This thing has gotten way out of hand quickly and their own "data" is no longer adding up, they have been exposed and are now adding lies on top of an already pile of manure ffs

Me thinks a magic cure might hit the shelves soon enough

Hospitals still empty, these nightingale hospitals empty, these make shift morgues empty, whether they are getting to use them for something else who knows

But they shouldn't be because by now people should be waking up to this mess

Apr 29, 2020 -- 11:13PM, EUGENE KRABS wrote:

This whole thing is really starting to stink ! The way things are being reported in the MSM and the fear that it is generating you would think that the hospitals were overflowing and that we were having to step over bodies in the street ! All these Nightingale hospitals are going to turn out to be the biggest white elephants of all time at this rate !

I don't think they were ever re-purposed for this now to be honest

Something else is planned for them

Beth Rigbys make-up arenas

I've been saying for over a month the reporting has been misleading and inaccurate with constant casual uses of phrases such as died from, cannot emphasis how unprofessional this is, reports swing from 'from' to 'with' to 'related' to 'had tested positive from'

there is not clear enough breakdowns of the numbers released from daily briefings, what exactly did there death certificates say, what were their age groups, what were their underlying health issues, how much longer were they expected to live without the contraction of the virus, how many people in perfectly good health who have died have died solely from this virus excluding those on the frontline overexposed with lack of PPE.

Schools, businesses, charities, sports, daily life all completely hinges on official numbers of Covid-19 deaths yet it's a completely artificial number to begin with, I don't think the government are trying to impose a police state I just think they're paralysed by fear and smashing the safety button so they're not accused of having blood on their hands whilst also over compensating for the lack of preparedness for this pandemic.

I also still question whether Boris was pulling a fast one when he was in hospital, he was never on a ventilator and it was his own medical team that asked for him to be put into ICU rather than the hospital admitting him there themselves? just as the sun was shining and it was more likely people were to go out more, just putting it out there.

It would be interesting to know how many of the shelf fillers in supermarkets have tested positive. They are in close contact with a wide range of the public on a daily basis so surely their figures would mean something.

Over 26000 with the coronavirus have died that is not the same as 26000 people died of the coronavirus.
Yet sadly the media is doing just that

The wording has given this away from day

"with" as opposed to "of"

Not to mention 6 weeks ago they downgraded this from high to low infectious on their own website

I think the government don't want to play along with it, Boris did a runner weeks ago and looks like he wants no part in this debacle hence him still missing well into the week he returned

Prince Harry and his wife p***ed off a few weeks before this hit as well, I mean what is going on?

The queen has been missing bar a couple of special broadcasts where she basically looked like a rabbit in headlights, I think she was held at gun point to do that video as well

Every time you see these plebs give a briefing its like they are thinking what the fack am I reading

The death numbers were mainly from a modelling system, now they are trying to bung in any death to the total because the number just isn't high enough to warrant a shut down that will collapse an whole world economy. You've got Trump trying to get it opened up quickly in the states, I think whoever pulled this off have gone missing now in my opinion

Whoever it was, whatever group it was, I think they've bricked it and scarpered hence the sudden reopening of states in America, and Florida are demanding no more figures are given for "corona virus"

Apr 30, 2020 -- 12:26AM, macarony wrote:

Over 26000 with the coronavirus have died that is not the same as 26000 people died of the coronavirus.Yet sadly the media is doing just that

You want to pop over to the politics forum!

The rent boy, donny and piss poor punter are up to 100k deaths and apparently they have all been murdered in cold blood by Boris

100k? I thought it was 40k?

A question to them... where are all the bloody bodies?

Have they been bunged into the back of empty car boots? a few tipped into the thames? a few bunged into the lofts?

Ridiculous, I know there's going to the opposite conspiracy theory but that is taking the pish

The numbers are utterly pointless now, to much shadiness and muddying of the waters with the "data", which now seems to be various different datas that are contradicting other data

I said weeks ago they'd have to try and spin their way out it somehow and I think death numbers reported daily are becoming less and less talked about in the media

They've ran scared in that department, its now onto basically old people dying in care homes.

Italy? what the fack has happened to them? no mention in weeks from our media now, and their daily deaths are hard to find now, a overall death but you have to dig for the daily count

I was being a bit OTT but if Owen Jones or some other left wing bender posted 100k they would lap it up and rejoice, calling it a FACT

I think the whole world has realised that the projections were way out and the lock downs over the top
You can't bring the world to it's knees for a few million deaths out of 7 billion people
Especially when the majority were waiting on god's door step anyway

Neil Ferguson is still being as arrogant as ever too
He ought to be in a cell awaiting charges of malfeasance

Here we go, SKY fanning the flames again

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-as-major-study-finds-most-elderly-victims-would-not-have-died-otherwise-11980675?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

The elderly might not have died without some illness being triggered

Elderly people get knocked clean out with a cold because their immune systems are done in, they haven't the lung capacity to cough up phlegm for example, I've been saying this for weeks in that if old people get a cold they are very much at risk of pneumonia, in fact its pretty much a given they'll get pneumonia if the cold lingers for more than a week in middle of winter, even a young fit and healthy man can get knocked for 6 with the flu ffs, it all depends how the body reacts and the brain capacity of the sufferer, knowing that the body producing the mucus fluid, well it needs to come out because its no good to the body long term.

Sky are utterly pathetic, the old can get the flu at any time of year and suffer badly with it, they might be right as reign one day but a little cold for them can turn into something a lot worse.

The numbers are a joke, 200,000 and now we're finding out a lot of these aren't even being tested for this thing, even the nutters running the show know that gig is up and trying to deflect away from it.

When you add the Chinese real death figs and 3rd world (no testing) I would say over a few million
Still a massive over reaction

To play this up though and justify the lockdowns and crashing of economies they are going to have to do better than this

200,000 confirmed with iffyness of how they died isn't going to cut it

So far they're not doing a good job of justifying a lock down, if they ain't careful they are going to expose themselves even to the most ignorant

Gates grinning from ear to ear isn't helping them either, the arrogance of that tw*t is something else

Remember we are entering month 3 of this now

And a lot of these deaths confirmed go back to February and even January

200,000 world wide is a pathetic excuse to shut down whole nations and collapse people's livlihoods

And anyone who say "but lockdown saved many lives" are missing the point, that's their get out of jail card, who's to say it would have only took that many anyway?

tt

It means that they had other illness but also tested positive. I assume that means anyone who was about to die of cancer and had only had Covid19 for 24 hours? But many fatalities who had Covid19 have not been tested so are not in the figures.

A personal perspective on the statistics.

My father-in-law died last Saturday.

He was 90 years old, had a great life and was a big man in every sense of the word.

For the last two years he has been living in a care home after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, from which he got progressively worse. For the last three months he has been doubl-incontinent, unable to feed himself, unable to talk with very poor quality of life.

On Thursday morning we got a call saying his breathing was very poor and that this looked like the end. Tough old buzzard that he was, he hung on and hung on for anothr 60 hours but in the end the inevitable got him.

We picked up his death certificate to date which listed the causes of death as:

1. Respiratory failure (suspect Covid-19)
2. Alzheimer's
3. Frailty

He was never tested for Covid-19.

Those are the bare facts.

So my questions are (working this up to a nationwide-level and questioning the statistics of death being tossed about at present).

1.  Did my father-in-law die of Covid-19?
2.  If so by how many days did this bring forward the inevitable, which we, his family were all resigned to and had made our peace with?
3.  Are other co-morbidities being accounted for in deaths being wholly attributed to Covid-19?
4.  Are these methods of counting being replicated world-wide or even UK-wide?

FWIW when it comes to statistics I think we are counting apples against oranges and coming up with rhubarb. We're doing it for a sinister purpose, to keep the population scared and compliant and if you're not persuaded by this then ask why the major media organisations, without fail, lead their nightly bulleteins with the number of deaths from Coronavirus (which as I hope I've outlined, from first hand experience, is questionable) - never with the number that have recovered?

commiserations Hanx, & thanks for the post; especially the last paragraph

Apr 30, 2020 -- 2:31PM, Baphornet wrote:

commiserations Hanx, & thanks for the post; especially the last paragraph

I second that

Cheers for that

He was a real good guy and will be missed but we were able to tell him that and have come to terms with things now.

Essentially, we lost him about 3 years ago when the Alzheimers really kicked in.

yes, i think we can all tell what you thought of him, Hanx. Good that the old boy heard your thoughts anyway

Hanx - Condolences to you and yours
My story is very , very similar (detailed elsewhere on the forum) . Fortunately my father has not passed away although it would appear to be only a matter of time .

FWIW when it comes to statistics I think we are counting apples against oranges and coming up with rhubarb. We're doing it for a sinister purpose, to keep the population scared and compliant and if you're not persuaded by this then ask why the major media organisations, without fail, lead their nightly bulleteins with the number of deaths from Coronavirus (which as I hope I've outlined, from first hand experience, is questionable) - never with the number that have recovered?

Happy to acknowledge that the BBC News website leads with the news that 'More than 1,014,000 people known to have had the virus globally have recovered, Johns Hopkins University says'

....whilst noting that it has taken until May 1st for them to report this statistic.

aye, something i & others on here have asked for many times; lets hope we get this countrys figure