Boo for our government regards Covid-19 handling

indeed mafeking. it's bizarre how the online world is the antithesis of the real world.

In my view Boris is far from perfect and if there's a lazy option (in normal times) he may well take it. But he's an excellent leader, and unparalleled as a political operator.

I also really hate his green agenda, but hopefully covid 19 has put an end to that nonsense.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:32PM, Cider wrote:

In my view Boris is far from perfect and if there's a lazy option (in normal times) he may well take it. But he's an excellent leader, and unparalleled as a political operator.

Leaders lead from the front, they don't hide in fridges.

Does one not think in any National Emergency the Government plus the leaders of the 2nd and 3rd largest Opposition Parties are included in the team dealing with it? With Bojo off the scene at the most strategic moment the Government was wafer thin and collective decision making has not had the desired effect.

The political master within the gov't is Cummngs and Johnson is merely the vehicle whom he operates through
As for leadership then he fails on so many qualities ... reliability; foresight; accumen ... he has been fortunate that opposition on his own side and the opposition has been terribly weak

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:32PM, Cider wrote:

In my view Boris is far from perfect and if there's a lazy option (in normal times) he may well take it. But he's an excellent leader, and unparalleled as a political operator.

This belongs on one of bigmo's threads.

Indeed Cider, far from perfect,the  highest death rate in Europe backs you up there.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:32PM, Cider wrote:

In my view Boris is far from perfect and if there's a lazy option (in normal times) he may well take it. But he's an excellent leader, and unparalleled as a political operator.

If you want to look at a real leader, one who leads from the front and has been truly excellent during this crisis, look north of the border.

Yes that's exactly what I thought when the gallivanting cmo turned up at the excruciating press conference.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:41PM, Cider wrote:

Yes that's exactly what I thought when the gallivanting cmo turned up at the excruciating press conference.

The one she sacked? What happened to the gallivanting clown of a housing minister down here?

Resigned I think you'll find. A little too late mind

She had one job

Jenrick still there, it's embarrassing beyond belief.

Who is bothered about Robert, that's right, chit chat and twatter

I am bothered, a traditional conservative voter.

The devolved countries are just following the Westminster lead. Looking at the quality of their CMOs yesterday, I'm unsurprised.

Sturgeon chopped her cmo. Jenrick did far worse but he is still there. That is ineptitude in the conservative party.

She resigned after being given no option. The original plan was to support the cmo staying in situ.

She was chopped by a true leader. If the conservative party had a leader Jenrick would be gone too.

After the most uncomfortable press conference anyone could probably remember.

As I said, only chit chat and twatter are bothered about Robert.

She was chopped by the leader, a leader that is different class from anything we have.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:53PM, Cider wrote:

As I said, only chit chat and twatter are bothered about Robert.

I am bothered and I am not on social media. It was an embarrassment, will always be.

Ya must have took advantage of that alhambra reserva 1925 offer in Ocado Cider otherwise wumming like a good un, your loyalty is funny for a better word,ya must have done well when Maggie sold the country.

Nearly 8.00pm, i am getting ready now to go outside to boo,i don't care if i am on my own though the mentalist wan across the road will surely join in when she hears the furore.

I'm just not deranged, lapsy pa. Though I'm sure you'll see it differently

Apr 25, 2020 -- 7:52PM, Cider wrote:

After the most uncomfortable press conference anyone could probably remember.

If you are interested in embarrassing press conferences, check out the ones where our home secretary can't count or proudly claims that shoplifting has went down during the lock down.

Patel is not as comfortable doing press conferences as she is in parliament or one on one interviews. while it's not unusual that the home sec would update us with crime numbers, her delivery could be improved.

Lets see how she gets on at the bullying employment tribunal. Another one only in cabinet because of her brexit views. Even I was surprised she got back after being sacked by May.

Personally I feel it's good to see a government and home sec that really backs the police. I'm not happy that the grooming gang report is still not being published.

I would expect any government and home secretary to always back the police. Patel probably trying to delay everything as she knows she is busted if she loses the bullying employment tribunal.

On the surface yes, but I feel this administration wants to properly support the police with substance. Of course covid 19 has changed the course of events.

I am certain they wish to support the police but Patel is a poor choice, a very poor choice given her previous record of bullying/attempted suicides by staff in previous government departments, plus being previously sacked for going behind the prime ministers back. Boris must have decided that her brexit views meant she would be loyal to him under any circumstance.

Having said that, her bullying employment tribunal opponent failed to exhaust all disciplinary procedures before quitting. That may save her.

I don't know if you were reading the threads on here at the time, but I was explaining to someone that you need to give the employer an opportunity to act before quitting and claiming constructive dismissal. I have a fair amount of experience in this area, but not at an executive level. However he has the means to employ legal advice that can twist legislation to their benefit. I don't know for sure obviously, in my opinion most likely Rutnam had his capabilities exposed rather than being bullied, but it doesn't mean he can't win his case.

These cases don't often go to tribunal as it's very difficult for the defendant to win, and they are expensive to defend. Claimants are usually offered a payout in exchange for a nda, not because they have a good case but it's the lesser of two evils.

Maybe Rutnam was none too pleased to be guided by an ethnic. Anyway, ACAS beckons.

I have acted for someone in an employment tribunal, simply because it was a family friend and I previously had my own business. Being retired, I was a lot cheaper than a lawyer, ie zilch. The basic details are on the politics forum. When two parties eventually reach the employment tribunal, it has to be shown and proved that both parties followed disciplinary procedures, exhausting any appeal process. They then have to use ACAS in order to try and resolve a financial settlement. If this fails, an employment tribunal takes place.

Indeed, a payoff is still odds on, which was always his aim of course.

Well, that is hard to say because he claims he was offered a financial settlement, which he declined.

Presumably he is gambling for more. I read somewhere the amount that can be given in a payoff in the civil service has been limited quite recently.

He also wants revenge of course!

I am far from certain that money is his motivation.

He got to do his crying in public, if he had accepted the original offer he would have had to disappear quietly.

Don't be surprised if a settlement is reached before the tribunal. The alternative is a non event at the tribunal when the government agree to pay the maximum settlement just minutes before the action starts.  In the case I was involved in, I found the term "we refuse to respond to derisory offers of this nature" was a useful message to send to the opposition via ACAS.

IMO the Government's handing of this has been ineffectual and somewhat amateurish. What is tiresome though is the pretense of party political motivated people on here that other European countries have not had most of the same issues.

So we have people with no criticisms at all to make of France, Belgium, Spain et al where it is just apparently a national tragedy that Governments are doing what they can to alleviate, but in Britain and America the Government is almost entirely to blame.

It might be something to do with the fact we live in the UK.

Outside of the woefully late advice not to travel, I can't think of anything else that was within their control but badly judged at the time the decisions took place. People are simply looking at the covid 19 deaths added up, but the impact of the virus has a lot more scope than that.

So why do the same people who find the Tories to blame for our death toll pop up all over Trump is to blame threads.

Basically for a lot on here....

Italy: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Spain: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Belgium: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
UK: Evil Tory Murderers
France: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Netherlands: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
USA : Evil Trump Murderer

As I've said, Khan's decision making in London has been terrible but there's been very little media or online critism. It's obvious as to why, and if he was a Tory he woukd be getting daggers, metaphorically.

How is he allowing that nonsense clapping carnival to go on in Westminster, beyond belief.

Tobermory,
UK,let's go the herd immunity route.
Hold on the NHS is gonna get overrun
Lets have a lockdown so
Bit late as the spread was "encouraged".
Sheet Italy warned us an all.

US
Let's all drink disinfectant

Khan? Read what his former legal colleagues said about him.

FWIW I think Jendrick should have been sacked, but presenting the firing of the Scottish CMO by Sturgeon as decisive action is not credible at all. She was clearly trying to cling on to her due to either friendship or shared ideology, but began to worry about her own position. Decisive action of her own will would have been to fire here immediately, not try and wait it out and then let her go when the media/public (and likely her own party collegaues) were raging in reaction to it.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 9:30PM, lapsy pa wrote:

Tobermory,UK,let's go the herd immunity route.Hold on the NHS is gonna get overrunLets have a lockdown soBit late as the spread was "encouraged".Sheet Italy warned us an all.USLet's all drink disinfectant

The herd immunity strategy was more or less announced and abandoned a couple of days later wan't it ? Not very impressive certainly. Who was actually calling for a lockdown in UK when Italy did it? Was anyone on here ? Are there posts that can be brought up from that time ? Surely if it was such a no brainer there will be.....

The SNP also lied to the media about it, and got caught out when the cmo told the truth at the notorious press conference.

there was no herd immunity policy, Valance mentioned it as a side effect in one of the briefings and it was taken out of context by the precious types.

I find it baffling that folks seem to be upset that Sturgeon fired the cmo, not at the exact time of their choice, but Jenrick wasn't sacked and they are happy about it.

It's more that you claimed she had been a terrific leader, when the evidence patently doesn't support that claim.

She is a terrific leader, the evidence of her record is there in black and white in seats won both in Holyrood and Westminster.

'Firing' someone because it's their head or yours doesn't really count as leadership, more self preservation.

Sturgeons position was never in any danger.

I am sorry that you are unable to understand that.

I suspect you're under-estimating the level of public outcry that Sturgeon tried to save her mate's bacon.

Tobermory there were posts and just for you and note the date. the arrest Boris thread,there were plenty of other people aghast as well at what was happening.

Not immediately in danger, but if it had dragged on it would have been something her rivals would have stored for future use. Something to be brought up when the Salmond faction - or whoever else would want her out - are ready to move against her.

I am not underestimating anything. I am simply not biased. Her opinion polls are incredible up there.

that's because scottish labour is dead and they mostly hate the tories. Name even one big covid decision that she's had to take that had large consequences.

Perhaps you missed the news regarding an exit strategy which she outlined?

tobermory Joined: 01 Mar 08
Replies: 4937125 Apr 20 20:36 
Apr 25, 2020 -- 8:30PM, lapsy pa wrote:

Tobermory,UK,let's go the herd immunity route.Hold on the NHS is gonna get overrunLets have a lockdown soBit late as the spread was "encouraged".Sheet Italy warned us an all.USLet's all drink disinfectant


The herd immunity strategy was more or less announced and abandoned a couple of days later wan't it ? Not very impressive certainly. Who was actually calling for a lockdown in UK when Italy did it? Was anyone on here ? Are there posts that can be brought up from that time ? Surely if it was such a no brainer there will be.....

Great post, i dont remember anyone saying we should lockdown asap, it was virtually the opposite. But as with most betting forums their is an awful lot of aftertiming.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 9:50PM, politicspunter wrote:

Perhaps you missed the news regarding an exit strategy which she outlined?

what was the decision exactly?

I think you might still be able to get the full details and briefing on the bbc.

@ tobermory Peckerdunne had a thread called "the virus is out of control" in late Jan i think,that thread was pulled,as said plenty here had a good idea of what was happening, no experts but the experts themselves well,they didn't walk the walk.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 9:52PM, politicspunter wrote:

I think you might still be able to get the full details and briefing on the bbc.

There was no decision, it was just fluff. If there was, tell me what it was.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 9:45PM, lapsy pa wrote:

Tobermory there were posts and just for you and note the date. the arrest Boris thread,there were plenty of other people aghast as well at what was happening.

lapsy pa, that thread seems more an attack on the herd immunity strategy - which the government dispute they actually had - rather than an unequivocal call for lockdown. I get that you and a few others felt that more should have been done at that time.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 9:54PM, Cider wrote:

Apr 25, 2020 --  8:52PM, politicspunter wrote:I think you might still be able to get the full details and briefing on the bbc.There was no decision, it was just fluff. If there was, tell me what it was.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/

There you go Cider.

I've read it pp, it's just fluff, things are exactly the same as they were before it was released. Correct me if I'm wrong, what has changed?

You can't have read it in one minute.

Nothing, it's just a rehash of Westminster's 5 tests in published filler.

I'm sorry that you are so biased you can't appreciate other UK leaders.

Thanks Tobermory,i did and still do re care homes and prisons now in particular.

I have no reason to be biased against NS or the SNP, as far as I'm concerned, Scotland is more than welcome to detach itself from the UK.

NS ?

She still hasn't taken any covid decisions on her own that had any jeopardy.

What does NS mean?

sturgeon

Ah ok. Well, as the Scottish Government is responsible for health/ law and order up there...

Of course but like I said, the devolved administrations have followed Westminster's lead so far.

Which is the right thing to do, btw.

Westminster haven't led. Westminster has no powers over those devolved matters. If anything, the Scottish and Welsh governments have been ahead of Westminster.

tobermory 25 Apr 20 20:23 
Basically for a lot on here....

Italy: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Spain: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Belgium: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
UK: Evil Tory Murderers
France: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
Netherlands: National Tragedy - Government doing all it can
USA : Evil Trump Murderer



very good, and very true. Blind hatred.

Apr 25, 2020 -- 10:16PM, politicspunter wrote:

Westminster haven't led. Westminster has no powers over those devolved matters. If anything, the Scottish and Welsh governments have been ahead of Westminster.

Nonsense, they've been taking the opportunity of announcing decisions made in cobra a couple of hours earlier though.

And introducing an exit strategy initiative amongst other things. I am not sure why you can't accept they have a devolved administration over which Westminster is powerless.

Although it is correct they should all work together.

Indeed saddo, i wanted to capture that post and send it to my friends.

From every post from certain people you know what they are going to post next virtually word for word. It is totally bizarre, its like they think its election week.

The correlation with salty remain voters being hyper critical of the UK government over covid will be very strong.

government led by clown make pilge of corona crisis

indeed their
main contribution was accelerating the spread by spreading illness through own
friends and family

no defence ....

attack those pointing out government had been carp, .

Cider,you are so wrong re "remainers" Barnier spelled it out today, your goverment doesn't know which way to turn,it is on the periphery of a meltdown,the economic consequense of this is castrophic.