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Have Sweden flattened the curve without trashing the economy?
Have Sweden flattened the curve without trashing the economy?
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PorcupineorPineapple
24 Apr 20 12:00 Joined: 03 Dec 15 | Topic/replies: 9,405 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog Apr 24, 2020 -- 11:45AM, InsiderTrader wrote: I imagine it was from their model.It sounds reasonable to me. Course it does. You don't scrutinise the opinions you choose to follow. ^ I emailed their press office for you PP. Reply in.... Hi XXXXX, No unfortunately not any answer so far. That will take a while until there are any answers, I suppose. |
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lurka
24 Apr 20 12:05 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 15,300 | Blogger: lurka's blog Do you think Tegnell would have done exactly the same as the UK did if, instead of Stockholm, a city stretched across 14 islands where 50+% of people live alone and most people work from home at least some of the time, he had London, where rents are unaffordable and a lot of people are forced to live on top of each other crammed into boxes with an airport like Heathrow and a few others serving it? Do you think he'd have told people not to worry about sporting events and not closed airports to some degree? You are comparing apples with oranges here while they are halfway through completely different approaches. Why don't we do what they are doing now? Crazy Too late and there are no measures anyone could have taken even at the start to turn a city like London into Stockholm in terms of how quickly it spreads. That means you should have taken much more restrictive measures than already in place in Sweden at the start and you didn't take any, you encouraged the spread instead, shaking hands with people in hospitals and telling people not to worry about sporting events FFS. No comparison. ^ Can we back up a minute on this 'handshake' and all the partisan politics UK stuff and concentrate on the actual topic of lockdown vs no lockdown. I.e. Sweden versus other countries that did lockdown rather than comparing to just UK. |
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how about sweden v the czech republic?
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The Czech Republic has opened its borders for outbound foreign travel in a sudden U-turn after official figures showed a decline in the rate of Covid-19 infections.
The move, announced by the health minister, Adam Vojtěch, represented a surprise change of course for the country, which had been among the first in Europe to close its borders on 16 March. Officials had insisted until recent days that travel restrictions would remain for the foreseeable future, with the country’s president, Miloš Zeman, suggesting last weekend that frontiers should stay closed for the next year. Vojtěch announced the reversal in a press conference on Thursday night but indicated the onus would be on travellers to prove they were uninfected on their return. “Upon return, travellers will either have to present confirmation of a negative test for coronavirus, or be forced to spend 14 days in quarantine,” he said. Commuters would also be able to cross the border daily if they presented a negative test for coronavirus every 14 days, Vojtěch said, a move that will affect a relatively small number of people who live in the Czech Republic but work in a neighbouring country, or vice versa. |
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swedens new cases another high today 812, 131 deaths
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I will only believe those figures if they come from wikipedia.
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Many claimed that Sweden was pursuing a herd immunity strategy, including US president Donald Trump, who during a press briefing told the assembled media that Sweden was 'suffering very greatly' due to what he referred to as 'the herd', and that the US, if done the same, 'would have lost hundreds of thousands more people'.
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If you asked European epidemic professionals to rank which countries did worst or best to fight the virus then Britain would certainly come in the bottom 3.
Anyone trying to say Sweden is doing well because its better than here is clearly not interested in actually determining how we'll it's done. Maybe find a comparable country and one which has had few deaths etc and compare Sweden's numbers against that. Tell me it's done great then maybe. |
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sweden say 15-20
a wide range of guesses i t takes 20 as it suits his campaign to kill more brits by going down the pub |
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Angoose
24 Apr 20 12:49 Joined: 18 Jul 02 | Topic/replies: 15,148 | Blogger: Angoose's blog Many claimed that Sweden was pursuing a herd immunity strategy, including US president Donald Trump, who during a press briefing told the assembled media that Sweden was 'suffering very greatly' due to what he referred to as 'the herd', and that the US, if done the same, 'would have lost hundreds of thousands more people'. ^ Is Trump right? I don't think Sweden is suffering very greatly at this point. |
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---you-have-to-laugh---
24 Apr 20 12:58 Joined: 06 Jul 10 | Topic/replies: 7,266 | Blogger: ----you-have-to-laugh---'s blog sweden say 15-20 a wide range of guesses i t takes 20 as it suits his campaign to kill more brits by going down the pub ^ My thoughts are not going to change UK policy. Don't worry about that. I think it is interesting to look at the Sweden case and, so far, it seems to me that they doing ok and the result will be a less trashed economy, less mental health problems and all the rest of it. It is interesting that everyone else disagrees and likes the Boris/Trump/Macron lockdown policy that risks a second spike and leaves big questions on when and how to end lockdown. Time will tell who is right but at this point logic suggests to me Sweden will end up coming out of this better. Midtable in deaths per million and a stronger economy. |
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Trump is never right. Especially when he is wrong and suggesting that you inject disinfectant.
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The Gangelt study in Germany come back at 14% had anti-bodies in the blood.
That is an interesting study given lockdown in Germany. |
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If your house in not on fire, should you call the fire brigade ?
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they aint doing ok
you are not listening but going into ever more minute detail to mitigate the silliness of your posts on the 5 threads you have started its similar stuff on all your " debates " |
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Sweden is suffering greatly (200 deaths per million of population) compared to their Nordic neighbours but I am aware that some reckon later on they will have a very steep dropping off in deaths whereas lockdown countries will have extended period of hundreds of deaths a day. This is the great unknown but I am sceptical that it will make up for their casualties up to this point.
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Actually 213 now in Sweden 70 in Denmark
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There is little hope for those, such as IT, who are prepared to argue that the UK death toll may not have been higher if zero lockdown measures had been put in place.
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IT doesn't throw his toys out the pram unlike Just Checking
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Denmark population density far greater than |Sweden, not even close.
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FACT : Anyone can get covid 19
FACT : Symptoms can be different FACT : Outcomes can be nothing through to death FACT : Almost every death have been in groups that are easily recognisable no matter what country FACT : Almost no deaths in groups that are easily recognisable Protect those that are vulnerable (properly) and rethink future policies to stop this happening again (but the government won't) The people in charge are only good at creating cliches |
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As has been pointed out a few times on this thread now, the Wiki figures are the actual official figures for every country.
Pmsl The Figures I put up are worldomter WHO figures , I don't read the Daily mail , And as for wiki I am not sure who is updating the Figures I doubt very much its the Governtment ,Infact not so long ago anyone could write anything on any wiki page as long as they had a Wiki Log in and password .. The figures Listed were incorrect where ever they came from .. |
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By:
edy
24 Apr 20 13:51 Joined: 13 Dec 06 | Topic/replies: 225,632 | Blogger: edy's blog Apr 24, 2020 -- 1:18PM, InsiderTrader wrote: The Gangelt study in Germany come back at 14% had anti-bodies in the blood. That is an interesting study given lockdown in Germany. Doesn't say anything about when people actually got infected. There was carneval in february, which is a superspreader event long before any "lockdown". ^ Interesting. A blind test in California had 5.3% testing positive. The assertion by Chris Whittey 3 weeks ago that 5-10% of UK population had had it. The assertion by the Swedish experts is that in about 3 weeks Stockholm will have herd immunity. The assertion by Betfair by pro-lockdowners on chit chat is the percentages are far less? |
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sweeden threatening to close pub,bars,cafes etc because people ignoring social distancing rules,getting the excuses in early maybe
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Regular troughs appearing in both graphs.
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Care home info?
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What about the economic suffering of everybody in its Nordic neighbours and the fact they are physically restricted as well.
Why do so many people ignore this big elephant in the room when comparing Sweden with locked down countries? |
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dont forget they are log scale graphs , which governments have been so keen to feed us during this pandemic.
but looks like sweden dont have smooth flow of reports of cases / deaths and is causing variation in numbers probably similar to our weekend lag. |
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The Swedish deaths are all allocated to the date the person died.
So we announce 664 deaths today (of people who died on various days) and the April 24th figure remains at 664, even when later we find out there were X number of people not included that died on April 24 (they will be added to toll for April 25/26 etc and remain there) Sweden currently saying 31 people have died on Apr 24th because that is the known number that have died today. Their Apr 24th figure will go up in subsequent days. Personally I think it is a better way to do it as the true peak can be deduced if yoy know how many actually died on each day, but it seems beyond the wit of our authorities to do this (and most other nations). |
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meanwhile domestic abuse cases rise, whilst everyone's obsessing with peaks and graphs, women are being battered all over the country, people reporting cancer worries/symptoms are also down, something that in the long run will cost many lives as the earlier the diagnoses the better, not to mention so many other issues such as increased rates of anxiety, stress and loneliness. Not sure what the suicide rates are per country but I'd imagine they'd increase as well.
The 'corona virus related death' numbers are typically misleading as well, is there any thorough breakdown of how many people have died directly from the virus with underlying health issues / no underlying health issues, how many have died with and and how many from. It's including numbers in the death toll with people who have simply tested positive from it, what impact did the virus have on every single death, what did all the post mortems say, how many had Covid-19 on their death certificates etc. Too many anorak virus numbers geeks holding up charts with tunnel vision. |
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NHS deaths Tobes? These the same deaths on actual day.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ Of course these aren't the ones given out daily on news/briefings etc which are for the reporting 24 period including days back like you say. |
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Too many people deliberately disregarding what the deaths figure would be if there was no lockdown
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What are the numbers for domestic violence Darren? What is the increase? Where are you getting that info?
There is capacity for cancer and non-covid patients but they don't want to go near a hospital because there is a pandemic floating around the place at the moment, even though the spread is a lot lower due to lockdown than it would be otherwise, as are their chances of getting it. Nothing whatsoever to do with a lockdown. |
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By:
lurka
24 Apr 20 18:02 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 15,322 | Blogger: lurka's blog Too many people deliberately disregarding what the deaths figure would be if there was no lockdown ^ That assumes the NHS would have been over run if we had not had the style of lockdown we chose. |