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EMBARRASSED AND SHAMEFUL BRITAIN
EMBARRASSED AND SHAMEFUL BRITAIN
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A big credit to Britain and the people doing it to keep essential services like post,rubbish,shops going, take a bow there.
That is its people. |
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I don't think it's far-fetched to believe China are lying about numbers. I do believe it is very far-fetched to think all the Asian countries are lying in unison.
Look at the facts - they all took a vastly different approach to US/EU and not surprising that they have vastly different results - so far... The results of their approach are fairly consistent across the board. Stop new cases entering and then chase down existing cases, find them quicker than they are spreading until you are on top of them. But none of them have much immunity built up compared to what EU/US will and there's a long way to go. What happens after lockdown is released is yet to come. The world got on top of SARS and stamped it out without immunity or a vaccine. But this has spread too much and when some countries are doing one thing and the rest almost the opposite, it means that this thing will be around a lot longer than SARS was and some restrictive measures are going to have to remain almost everywhere for a long time. |
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On the 3rd March the WHO claimed to have shipped 500,000 sets of PPE to 47 countries. Thats 10,600 sets per country... including UK. That's one set between 141 health workers. On the 3rd March the WHO knew what the scale of this outbreak would be and that was their response. One set of PPE between every 141 NHS workers. Cheers!
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Lurka agree with most of that, said on here tother day, leaving lockdown is like a giant game of Kerplunk.
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you,ll be telling us next that china believe handjobs numbers about cases and deaths in care home,s ,
 ,at least they've got an excuse their a secret state ,imagine china standing at a lectern comparing their death numbers favourably with frances, without counting in the dead from outside hospital care homes, oh how,d we laugh,but not a dickie bird when handjob does it everyday for 5 weeks, |
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New directive just announced by health care enland to all doctors and Nurses : "Re-use single use single use gowns". Jesus wept
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lurka
17 Apr 20 19:19 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 15,153 | Blogger: lurka's blog I don't think it's far-fetched to believe China are lying about numbers. I do believe it is very far-fetched to think all the Asian countries are lying in unison. Look at the facts - they all took a vastly different approach to US/EU and not surprising that they have vastly different results - so far... The results of their approach are fairly consistent across the board. Stop new cases entering and then chase down existing cases, find them quicker than they are spreading until you are on top of them. But none of them have much immunity built up compared to what EU/US will and there's a long way to go. What happens after lockdown is released is yet to come. The world got on top of SARS and stamped it out without immunity or a vaccine. But this has spread too much and when some countries are doing one thing and the rest almost the opposite, it means that this thing will be around a lot longer than SARS was and some restrictive measures are going to have to remain almost everywhere for a long time. ^ I already explained the civil liberties that have to given up if you want numbers like South Korea or Singapore. |
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It was open to the EU/US to close inward travel and to lockdown just like we are now, without trampling on civil liberties any more than they have done.
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South Korea didn't even lock down
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why haven't we been making our own PPE ? I don't get it
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Probably not open to Trump without the governors all on board at the same time, but open to all EU member states to do it, just do what they've done already only much earlier and for a much shorter period.
Focus on the economy and not 'trampling' on civil liberties has meant much more damage to the economy and much more trampling on civil liberties. This is the second or third stage of lockdown, if they'd got on top of it early like in Asia they'd have avoided some if not all of the lockdown restrictions for most of the time they will be in effect. |
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Can you honestly imagine any UK government banning all inward and out flights, banning all in-border travel and locking down the population, and country, for weeks on end back in February???
Get real. |
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Well that's basically what's happening now isn't it?
I know there are still flights coming in but they are largely empty and it's a separate issue really, because there's an even stronger case for banning a lot of them now with public support if they did and they're still not. Put it this way - if this ever happens again, what do you think they'll do next time? |
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And you have to consider that they knew they had no PPE and that there was a shortage of it and tests with high demand for both at increasing levels. All the more reason to not let it spread like they all did.
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lurka
17 Apr 20 20:45 Joined: 25 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 15,159 | Blogger: lurka's blog South Korea didn't even lock down ^ They put online atomised personalised details of where people who have test positive went and quarantine by mobile phone and other tags. Sorry but there is no way countries like the UK and USA can go down this route. We cannot throw away hundreds of years of civil liberties over this virus. |
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Here are some current problems at the NHS nationwide
Each trust can ask for as much PPE as it wants regardless of need. One in the North East has 30% of the regions PPE and 3 Covid deaths. They are double bagging bodies because they think it is ebola, when there is no clinical need. As a result some trusts have 2-3 days worth of body bags left There was a reallocation of PPE between hospitals on Saturday to take account of hoarding by some Trusts. As it was a Saturday the hospitals didn't have the staff to accept it!!  |
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"... back in February"
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I guarantee you they will do it all next time IT. I'd be outraged if they don't and so will most people.
I disagree anyway. When you don't have the equipment and preparedness of Asian countries, all the more reason to take drastic measures to get on top of it early. We'd all be well out of lockdown by now and this virus could go the same way as SARS, ie extinct, if there was a co-ordinated approach worldwide, which will be the result of this. The UK was aware it wasn't prepared for a pandemic a few years ago after it surveyed how prepared it was. Then Hancock comes out in January and tells everyone they were prepared for it. |
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You are 'throwing away' civil liberties for a matter of months. It might be years now. But admittedly people will be much more accepting next time.
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So, you'd be happy if, on the threat of a virus from China, the government locked the country down, ended all social contact, destroyed the economy for generations, introduced a pseudo police state and surveillance and...... after 3 months realised it was just a scare! Don't forget, SARS killed 500 world wide but was going to finish us all at the time.
As I said, get real. |
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After 3 months it was just a scare here, but everywhere else was fúcked. I would be happy.
And I'll be happy to lockdown (if even necessary at the current level) for a couple of months if it happens again, as will the vast majority of people |
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It would only take a month anyway for you to be happy, once you'd seen what everywhere else was like
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and you'd be even happier after 2 months, 3months etc etc
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And they wouldn't destroy the economy for generations WTF? That's what their inaction will result in, not what I am suggesting would.
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No you wouldn't. With your job gone, pension ruined, chucked out of your house and zero for a future you'd be looking for scapegoats.
All that on a rumour. |
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WTF are you on about? The same if not even more support measures would be available. They'd be more affordable to government too and would go on for a much shorter period.
The bottom line is there would be far less economic damage, far fewer restrictions overall, a lockdown wouldn't be needed in every area and if it happens again that's what they'll do. |
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Nobody is getting chucked out of their house now, so why do you think it would have happened if they'd done what Asia did and got on top of it early, with less economic damage?
It will be the same excuse as 2008 - look over there the same thing happened, nothing we could have done, we did a good job in the circumstances blah blah. The problem is you have career civil servants making the most important decisions ultimately. People whose area of expertise is things like nothing, primary school teaching etc in charge of making a decision in a pandemic. The scientists must be looking at these mugs and thinking God help us. |
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" A lockdown wouldnt be needed in every area".. the idea that parts of the uk can go off to the pub /cafes/work whatever and other parts will just be happy singing **** by yah at home putting up with it is utterly ridiculous. You may be happy with lockdown Lurka, but you don't speak for the "vast majority " of people
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Scientists have been saying lock down, don't lock, wear face masks, don't wear face masks, close schools, keep them open, allow for herd immunity, don't allow it, and on and on and on. Politicians must have thinking God help us.
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Sorry, you have advance warning of an impending highly infectious disease, if not from China, then from Italy. You take immediate action to close inward travel, test and track cases, then there is little chance of having to lockdown the whole country. You lock down areas with clusters only. And if it spreads outside, you lock down further.
This is what will happen next time and if that is done, then certain areas might have to lockdown for 2 or 3 months but the vast majority of the country won't unless it spreads. Are you honestly suggesting that letting travel in, sitting on your hands until the spread goes countrywide, shaking hands and not being worried about sport events because they are open air and then reacting is the best way to deal with this? The economic damage and restrictions on civil liberties are maximised when you do that. They can't be any worse than what they will be now. And they will go on indefinitely currently and cause much more economic pain. You don't have to listen to these mugs with zero expertise when they tell you their hands were tied and everyone else was the same. You are allowed to expect higher standards of governance. You are entitled to expect that a country of 66m can produce better than that, better than other countries with career civil servants with little experience of anything relevant. |
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In Sweden, the epidemiologists make all the decisions. The politicians take a complete back seat. Why? Because it's not their area of expertise.
When politicians get involved, they have to think about what looks good for me, will this affect my chances of re-election, do I want history to show that I was the politician that made this decision, do I want to become leader of the party one day, what is the safer (as opposed to the smart) decision to make here, what about what our party backers want etc etc I'm not singling out the UK for that btw, it's the same in most western countries. But my point is there is an acceptance of mediocrity and a complete lack of accountability for these muppets because that is the norm, that is all that is expected and they get away with it time and again because they know they can make a self/party-serving decision and get away with it. |
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There are a whole host of factors that sway their decision-making that aren't present if experts make the decisions. Even if you ask a random member of the public what they think is the smart thing to do based on the same evidence presented to an equally-non-expert politician they will see it completely differently because they aren't swayed by any of those factors.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52329659
Coronavirus vaccine: Target of a million doses by September, scientists say in Oxford |
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WTF Wolf? I am saying that if you'd got on top of it early you wouldn't have needed a lockdown to this extent. The only reason I'm pro lockdown now is because now there is no alternative now.
And Sweden is a special case. The UK media like to portray them as doing things differently but they're not. They didn't react like the Asians did but 50%+ of the population live in towns and villages with 50k or less people. (Urban areas are 85% of the country but Urban Areas are classed as anywhere with 200+ people and no more than 200m between residences). 50%+ of the people in Stockholm are single and live alone, ie not sharing. Old people live separate from other family. They naturally socially distance (sit apart from others in resturants, bars and don't sit near or chat on public transport with strangers etc), most workers work from home some of the time so they have all the software etc set up at home, meaning that traffic and public transport isn't like the tube, people move out of home at 18/19 Euro average is 26. Sweden have most of the initial lockdown provisions naturally in place 100% of the time, so a lockdown wouldn't be of much benefit at the first stage at least. They are doing the same as UK - reacting when the spread gets too much but it hasn't got their yet. |
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Not enough to justify killing their economy I mean. They are playing the hand they were dealt and it's a very goos hand.
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They also trust their govt, pay high tax but get amazing benefits. So the govt say there is a virus - old people need to distance - easy, people should work from home and socially distance - easy, traffic and public transport less packed as a result. They have super benefits too and employers encourage you to stay at home when feeling even slightly sick, they don't want you to bring an illness into the workplace and the state will make sure you get full pay.
You don't hear much about this over here, no wonder. I know a guy married to a Swedish girl and living in Sweden. They had a kid - 6 months full paid leave each at the same time. they went on a holiday to Thailand after the kid was born and he's in a high paid job but the state pays them both in full. |
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The medical community here has continually given reasons for the lockdown occurring when it has and not just the government- just because you are happy to remain indoors for months at a time posting on here lurka doesn't mean it is the same for "the vast majority " of the population you claim to represent such as families with numerous children living in flats with no garden or access to outside space. The problem is as ever, because you are happy to do something you assume you speak for others.
You may be right with Sweden have a higher quality of life, Ive only been once to Malmo and found the place overrun with muslims and crime but I will bow to your apparent expertise on the matter despite the fact you have never been but once knew a guy that did. 14,000 are dead so far this calendar year from corona with over half over 80 and 92% over 60 mainly with underlying health issues yet over 65000 are dead due to cancer and heart disease this year.. if you think locking down the economy for months before even these figures appeared justifies even more economic damage fair enough- I don't. All it takes is one person to arrive on these shores so unless you are proposing no air travel or foreign travel for years until it burns itself out on a global scale your ideological utopia is cloud cuckoo land as is your economic naivety where many people following your advice with no income would prob end up living in a fcking tent. |
