Self-Employed where do they get the balls

I'm sure most have done the old cash purchase off the books one tine or another. All I'm saying is you can't have the bread buttered on both sides.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:20PM, jucel69 wrote:

I bet the HMRC automated service will be firing those late filing penalties out

They will be holding off punishment.

For now

johnny guesser
nice explanation

80% of £2 profit - £1.60, job done quids in

are accountants at work or are offices closed?
It's there busiest time of the year right now

It depends on whether people have been taking the p***.

Personally, I've been on both sides, employed and self-employed through a limited company several years ago.

However, an IT contractor (for example), earning perhaps £350+ per day, yet paying themselves a salary sub-£12,500 per year and taking everything else they earn as dividends, deserves everything they're now (not) getting as far as I'm concerned.

At least do the decent thing and pay yourself a salary of £50K, so you don't breach the 40% tax threshold, as a bare minimum.

Also cider, after several very poor years I have just had a good un. But the extra earnings have been getting paid into my bank for months before the virus existed. It will be inarguable that I've just had a rare good year.

If we don't look after the self-employed of this country, they are likely to look beyond these shores and flourish elsewhere.
Our plumbers could go to Poland.

Look at Aus, nobody is getting a bean over there paye or s/e, it's complete uproar

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:27PM, unitedbiscuits wrote:

If we don't look after the self-employed of this country, they are likely to look beyond these shores and flourish elsewhere. Our plumbers could go to Poland.

bollocks

Sorry - it is based on the average declared profits for the 3 years to 2018/19 not the 2018/19 years alone.

black cabs will be stacked up tomorrow fighting over fares, joining,tim martin,mike Ashley,next etc in taking the pish

There'll be others benefiting from a better year three years ago saddo. It's a win some lose some scenario.

people not lost a days work,certain people gaining income,now getting free grants and can carry on working as usual tomorrow,the magic money tree on the Columbian marching powder ,free money everywhere

A scammers delight - all those emails going out asking for bank details to pay in your HMRC Coronavirus Support Payment.

I'm not moaning cider, just saying that there is no easy way for anyone with books to commit fraud over this. The jealous ones are assuming that all the self employed can just flick a fiddle switch, idiots really.

If anything the fiddlers will lose out. Given the circumstances it's about as good as Rishi could have done. There will be people applying for grants who aren't in any need at all, merrily earning from home, but unavoidable in the bigger picture. They could have perhaps looked at clawing it back after this year's return is known.

It's a wet dream scenario for the Nigerians and the book worms

I very much doubt they will just take peoples's word and not check for discrepancies when the accounts are submitted.

so to get this right the government now encouraging people to break their lockdown by offering them 2,500 quid a month,the worlds gone mad,you,d have thought self isolating would be a caveat to claim the grant

They won't have the resources for investigations or close scrutiny. It's totally within the rules to carry on earning so some people will be getting an effective bung of almost 3 months profit.

There will be legal adverts 24/7 in Pakistan advising people how to rob the UK blind
I've seen them before when I have been watching cricket

I never saw the announcement cider, I think anyone still working has no need to claim owt, that seems flawed.

Of course some of em might be earning next to nowt to stay afloat

I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.

No easy way anyhoo.

Yes, perfection is difficult in a few days.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:45PM, Cider wrote:

I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.

same with paye, there will be employers making their staff work and then claiming off the govt

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:46PM, saddo wrote:

Yes, perfection is difficult in a few days.

a lot of people will have been working day and night to get this plan sorted

I believe him when he said the overriding factor was that it needed to be deliverable.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:46PM, jucel69 wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  8:45PM, Cider wrote:I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.same with paye, there will be employers making their staff work and then claiming off the govt

It's actually against the rules to work while furloughed.

no but paying people and telling them they can carrymon working goes against police fining you for going for a 2nd walk, even if they wernt going to police it why not say you,ll only get it if you self isolate,cant see a downside to that,utter incompetency imo,be ripped apart tomorrow by media suspect

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:48PM, Cider wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  8:46PM, jucel69 wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:45PM, Cider wrote:I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.same with paye, there will be employers making their staff work and then claiming off the govtIt's actually against the rules to work while furloughed.

yeh I know but that isn't going to stop some folk

Cider, I think the gov have done as well as possible in the circumstances, there will always be those trying it on in chaotic situations.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:49PM, jucel69 wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  8:48PM, Cider wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:46PM, jucel69 wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:45PM, Cider wrote:I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.same with paye, there will be employers making their staff work and then claiming off the govtIt's actually against the rules to work while furloughed.yeh I know but that isn't going to stop some folk

There's no benefit to anyone doing this, unless they are paying cash off the record.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:50PM, Cider wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  8:49PM, jucel69 wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:48PM, Cider wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:46PM, jucel69 wrote:Mar 26, 2020 --  8:45PM, Cider wrote:I assume it's because there's no way to differentiate between who can still work during lockdown and who can't.same with paye, there will be employers making their staff work and then claiming off the govtIt's actually against the rules to work while furloughed.yeh I know but that isn't going to stop some folkThere's no benefit to anyone doing this, unless they are paying cash off the record.

there a few ways, people can get imaginative in these one off scenarios!

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:50PM, saddo wrote:

Cider, I think the gov have done as well as possible in the circumstances, there will always be those trying it on in chaotic situations.

I agree saddo, the bad taste is low paid workers who are still required to work, in difficult circumstances when some well off people will literally be getting money for nothing. There will be a lot of resentment I fear but there's no obvious solution.

if your  employed through your own company summising ltd company,ir 35 your not entitled under this scheme, lots will lose out there

Another myth, people still think we all see a lot of cash, less than 10% of turnover in my case. Now how much of that 10% could I hide without em finding it odd, and why the feck would I take the risk?

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:53PM, Cider wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  8:50PM, saddo wrote:Cider, I think the gov have done as well as possible in the circumstances, there will always be those trying it on in chaotic situations.I agree saddo, the bad taste is low paid workers who are still required to work, in difficult circumstances when some well off people will literally be getting money for nothing. There will be a lot of resentment I fear but there's no obvious solution.

I wouldn't work in a supermarket for a golden swine

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:54PM, saddo wrote:

Another myth, people still think we all see a lot of cash, less than 10% of turnover in my case. Now how much of that 10% could I hide without em finding it odd, and why the feck would I take the risk?

completely depends on what business you are in
Some people will have zero cash and vice versa

But steve says all 5 million vile individuals are all the same.

confidence and liquidity

Mar 26, 2020 -- 9:57PM, saddo wrote:

But steve says all 5 million vile individuals are all the same.

I can't speak for Steve, his views are his own

You do find that certain ethnicity end up in cash businesses, can't understand why

Romanian builders considering their options right now

You do, I can't speak for them.

My mate has a relatively new business. He has sent his accounts for the past 2 tax years to HMRC.

1st year was a £21k loss and the 2nd year a £2k loss. He has profit for the tax year about to end but that year will not be taken into account.

What he gunna get?

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:01PM, Burt06 wrote:

My mate has a relatively new business. He has sent his accounts for the past 2 tax years to HMRC.1st year was a £21k loss and the 2nd year a £2k loss. He has profit for the tax year about to end but that year will not be taken into account.What he gunna get?

94 quid per week

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:01PM, Burt06 wrote:

My mate has a relatively new business. He has sent his accounts for the past 2 tax years to HMRC.1st year was a £21k loss and the 2nd year a £2k loss. He has profit for the tax year about to end but that year will not be taken into account.What he gunna get?

A business lesson?

to quote peter jones that's not a business try something else

Burt, from what I read on here we will be allowed to estimate this years profit, and differences will be rectified later. Hope he's earned near the upper limit this year or he won't be getting much to live on.

A business lesson, really, seems to me he's probably doing a good job..

It's a good time to be very rich
Stock up the yacht with goodies and drift around the world for a year or two

Or just never leave the island

i feel more sorry for us BF gamblers
I've got no income now for the foreseeable future

It's another major transfer of wealth.

That's what the 2008 jobbie was.

Might take time for the penny to drop though.

You should be our union leader, Saddo. I fear you may get more sense out Mart, than one or two on here though! Keep up the sterling work.

thats not good juce...perhaps collude at poker

nah I've never played poker and I can imagine this would be the worst time to start!

will the govt ever go after the crooks in the UK tax havens??

Juce, it's a good time now to strategise, will be a big dip and folk will have no cash reserves, no credit rating, opportunity will a plenty

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:13PM, jucel69 wrote:

will the govt ever go after the crooks in the UK tax havens??

they are the governers.

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:13PM, peckerdunne wrote:

Juce, it's a good time now to strategise, will be a big dip and folk will have no cash reserves, no credit rating, opportunity will a plenty

i gave up poker about 12 yrs ago, it's a dogs life, i wouldn't advise it as a lifestyle

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:14PM, leif wrote:

Mar 26, 2020 --  9:13PM, jucel69 wrote:will the govt ever go after the crooks in the UK tax havens??they are the governers.

yep unfortunately
32 trillion (at least) sitting there untaxed!

Mar 26, 2020 -- 10:15PM, peckerdunne wrote:

i gave up poker about 12 yrs ago, it's a dogs life, i wouldn't advise it as a lifestyle

doesn't appeal to me at all.
I enjoy watching cricket as well so punting on top (although stressful) is still going to be my main income source moving forwards
TBF April is a quiet betting month for me anyway, I don't like the IPL

Thank you kenbo, I have no time for uneducated bigotry against a largely decent bunch of people.

The self employed take the risks, during the 2008 recession I spoke with a surveyor valuing empty properties being remortgaged by Northern Rock collapse, he told me 90 % of them were self employed,mostly young lads plumbing,plastering,leccies,etc who had taken the plunge. When the jobs dried up they were left high and dry while the public sector and big corporations were able to keep staff on,albeit with fewer hours or no bonuses. They deserve some respect instead of malice.

You can’t lump all the self-employed in to a single basket, many variations.

As for taking risks treetop, you are correct, but risk tends to go hand in hand with reward.
For example, many technicians have historically chosen to go dayrating in the oil and gas industry during the boom times.

Coined it in, and good luck to them.
But they can’t seriously imagine that will not be the first casualties once a slump kicks in.

That’s the gamble.

This situation, of course, is incredibly unique.
And we have many self-employed who are really employees, just without the protection that such a status provides.

There is a price to pay when society stands by and watches employers turn and turn the screw on the working man.
Gig economy my @rse.

so basically the majority on this forum hate the idea of entrepreneurs,  go it alone types, and successful people

I note this is coming mainly from people who hide in offices and count beans

can't have them being scorched by the brilliant rays of go getters by stepping outside

many others live outside of the uk or are not even british  so it isn't surprising they want to have a wack at us

chuck in the jealousy and we have the complete whinging anti uk forumite

jucel6926
i feel more sorry for us BF gamblers
I've got no income now for the foreseeable future

________________

gambling my only income too at the moment jucel and has been for years  ...weird as we must be the only people not in one of their 2  groups ...feels strange  ....so are we self employed ?  of independant means ?  .... i wish i could file tax returns just so i can register on their system   but we can't .

i don't claim anything , pay council tax, but earn well below the tax threshold ...i can't claim UC anyway   ...strange old situation     oh well .

maybe we're just no-bodies    ...tried going self employed as a sole trader a couple of times before but found it IMPOSSIBLE to make money on the open market . Tried all things .

In truth  i don't know how to make money ,i would be  living under a bridge without gambling  ...even when i once applied for minimum wage jobs i had no success

I tried apple picking but only made about £2 an hour ..it cost me more in petrol to get there

This thread is pretty tame compared to twitter
It's a massive PAYE v Self Employed war on there!!

Mar 27, 2020 -- 4:33AM, Coachbuster wrote:

jucel6926i feel more sorry for us BF gamblersI've got no income now for the foreseeable future________________gambling my only income too at the moment jucel and has been for years  ...weird as we must be the only people not in one of their 2  groups ...feels strange  ....so are we self employed ?  of independant means ?  .... i wish i could file tax returns just so i can register on their system   but we can't . i don't claim anything , pay council tax, but earn well below the tax threshold ...i can't claim UC anyway   ...strange old situation     oh well .

The economic ghosts, there must be plenty on BF

saddo

But steve says all 5 million vile individuals are all the same.

How many of those 5 million do you think pay their full 100%?

Most if not all seem content scheming not to pay the full 100% that is owed. They're more than content to cheat the health service, pensioners and schools.

Steve Voltage 27 Mar 20 07:32 
saddo

How many of those 5 million do you think pay their full 100%?




How would I possibly have any idea, how many drivers speed every time they go out, do you know that?
Anyway, you've a few weeks to get some tools, a vehicle, a business plan, customers and suppliers sorted out. You must be busting to give it a go, it's all free money innit.

Retired banker - Index linked pension 30k a year  - Been doing some self employed  Management Consultancy for the last few years - 40K a year.

Got 200K in his cash ISA and no mortgage.

Looking forward to spending his  summer off in his second home on the Cornish coast.

Going to spend his £7500 on some decking and a BBQ area.

Mar 27, 2020 -- 9:18AM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

Retired banker - Index linked pension 30k a year  - Been doing some self employed  Management Consultancy for the last few years - 40K a year.Got 200K in his cash ISA and no mortgage.Looking forward to spending his  summer off in his second home on the Cornish coast.Going to spend his £7500 on some decking and a BBQ area.

Going to spend his £7500 on some decking and a BBQ area

Made in China
Literally paying China to infect us ffs

I think this is a pretty stupid argument. The virus dies not distinguish between employment and self employment. We don’t need people out on the streets trying to make money to feed their families. I was outraged as others when I heard construction was continuing on a building site owned by a rich Russian while the rest of us stayed home. Dorris initially allowed this or supported this action. Nurses were getting parking tickets ffs.

The actions of Rishi on the self employed have shown that he is still being hamstrung bu old school thinking......three years accounts, nothing if you take dividends only, you must have made a return last year etc. These are not things that need to be considered in a Pandemic.

A blanket payment may have been better, even a small one. I understand rich people don’t need the money but while we are deciding who needs money people are going to be going hungry. Get it done quick zRishi.

Another example of where leadership is letting us down, not just politics but leaders of business and industry is the health service. Just heRd two actors have arranged for nurses / health workers to get hot meals between shifts particularly those in red wards with plenty of PPE on. This is astonishing. Lack of fresh Ir and nutrition will lower your immune system. Nurses aregoin* to die because their bosses are not looking after them! The actors were Helen McCrory ( Pollly ) and Damian Lewis, well done. 6,000 hot meals a day from a cafe!

Is the money a grant or loan?

Saw builder neighbour this morning on the drive , loading up his van. Moaning that he has got no work - He's going to work for the next couple of months tarting up his 5th buy to let that has stood empty for the last couple months.

"Might as well earn that way "  he said.

He's going to cop for £7500  - Face dropped when I told him it was taxable - He wants to know the best way to contact Sunak ?   -  "See if he wants to do a cash deal ? "

The envy seems to be getting to you. Start a partnership with steve, it's all out there, easy money no tax.

No envy at all.

A botched ineffective system that wastes billions of pounds - billions that could be put to a far better use helping people when this thing is done.

Yes it is good to help the truly needy - but even their help is coming far too slowly ! In doing this he is  throwing billions away on people who just don't need it or deserve it.

You're not tempted then?

Voltage, did you see your thread I bumped yesterday?

They are starting up as sparkies, I wouldn't advise they use 'Voltage Guesser's' as a name.

saddo
How would I possibly have any idea, how many drivers speed every time they go out, do you know that?
Anyway, you've a few weeks to get some tools, a vehicle, a business plan, customers and suppliers sorted out. You must be busting to give it a go, it's all free money innit.




Throughout a journey I’d say above 90% you agree?
All you hear from them today is be careful it maybe a trap to close the loopholes in the system’

Unbelievable

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Steve Voltage 06 Jan 13 09:27 
Anybody on here ever done this?

I'm thinking of doing this so if anyone has any advice i'd love to hear it. Happy




Please stop, my ribs are not in good shape just now

do you think this crisis will end the media,financial guru,s,money facts,martin lewis,moneybox on radio 4 etc,etc,telling us all that everyone should have 6 months worth of wages on the hip in cash in case of emergencies,

I'm afraid one of the unwelcome repercussions of this will be even less personal responsibility. Anyone self employed can have an accident or fall ill, so should really be in a position to cope without income for at least three months.

I was ill in January Cider, popped two ribs coughing and carried on working, with a bit of difficulty til March 5th. I have no sickness insurance and haven't claimed any sick pay in 40 years. I could have afforded time off with no pay, which I usually do, but I was pretty much irreplaceable on a job that was very time dependent, and in fact went a day over partly due to my slower pace. I carried on because I said I would get something done, that is simply part of self employment to those who gaf.

It's a gamble though isn't it saddo. There are illnesses and accidents that people couldn't possibly work through. It's not that difficult to set up an emergency fund for the vast majority of people. It's a mindset thing. Partly due to the entitled nature of the society we're living in, in 2020, people view some expenditure as a fundamental when it is not.

Instead of the SJW snowflake mind bending stuff kids are force fed in education nowadays, they should be having financial awareness and discipline drilled into them.

No intention of boasting Cider, you'd find it difficult to believe the injurious state some of us go to work with. When my neck was bad my wife had to button my shirt up in a morning for months, so useless was my left arm for an hour or two every day.

I've been there. You might scoff with me being office based but I put my back out so badly it took me 20 minutes to get in the car. That was more due to responsibility of being in charge rather than the threat of loss of income. However life is much less stressful when you've got a financial cushion. I work with a lot of young people and they are simply clueless about personal finances.

unless its a credit card

I tried to bring my daughter up right cider, taught her to shop well and always save, she's 29 and doing very well, works harder than I ever have.

*She's self employed also