Woman, 21, ‘with no pre-existing conditions dies of coronavirus’

Sad news, just a young lass.
But even sadder that it takes such a death before swathes of the population get the message that this virus doesn't care how old and healthy you are.

Desperate

The mother called it a 'so called virus'
Does she think it isn't?

One death on a healthy young person all of a sudden means everyone is at equal risk
Horrible scare-mongering from Angoose.
Think I'll block this bloke.

Reports of a 16 year old Lad in LA on the world service last night

Post mortems yet?
Best get ALL evidence first imo before hysterically blaming a 'so called virus'

The mother called it a 'so called virus'
____________________

possibly she  thinks of a virus is maybe only a simple cold so she is just saying it's worse than that to remind people

Might make some of these idiots who are doing the so called Corona challenge a reality check, people licking toilet bowls and handles on the tube etc, morons!
Very sad for the young girl and her family, desperate times.

FIRE

I would imagine while they were laid out gasping for breath a blood test or what ever may have taken place ??

Seems to a High percentage in London treating it with total disregard .....

Lets hope they don't succumb to any illness ,they may have a bit of trouble getting into

A&E...

I have had my reservations , but regardless staying a couple of weeks is not going to kill anyone

extra tube trains and ID  needed to travel  ... that's what they did in Italy to curb the numbers

She may have had the corona virus casemoney, but until there is a post mortem we don't know for sure that she didn't have an undiagnosed underlying problem.

Horrible scare-mongering from Angoose.
Think I'll block this bloke.


He is coming close to being accused of revelling in the situation.

Daily Mail had a story about a young, healthy football coach in Spain or Portugal who died from it last week. They buried the bit about him being diagnosed with leukaemia too.

She had no "known" health issues. Horrible story, but it might not be the full story.

Indeed Darlo. How many young and very fit footballers that we all know have fallen victim to illnesses (heart etc) that they were completely unaware of? This virus is said to be serious in people with heart conditions and most will not usually know they have a problem until later in their years. It only takes something like this to be the difference between now and then.

Angus just cuts and pastes from the guardian ,the discerning punters bog roll.

Horrible leftie biased paper the Guardian.

Fire-and-Ice 25 Mar 20 13:51 
One death on a healthy young person all of a sudden means everyone is at equal risk


Some of the young out there think they are actually immune because of their age, that's why it needs to be highlighted

Dr Crippen 25 Mar 20 15:10 
Horrible leftie biased paper the Guardian.
flushgordon1 25 Mar 20 15:08 
Angus just cuts and pastes from the guardian ,the discerning punters bog roll.

Back to back SEETHING

37 year old friend of a brother in law in a coma in hospital.  No medical conditions

Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:30PM, duffy wrote:

Fire-and-Ice 25 Mar 20 13:51  One death on a healthy young person all of a sudden means everyone is at equal riskSome of the young out there think they are actually immune because of their age, that's why it needs to be highlighted

duffy - 100% spot on.  That is the biggest issue not even with the so called younger generation.  People always think it will NEVER happen to them.  It's like the story someone lived to 95 and smoked 60 cigarettes a day.  Statistically if you continue to disobey the guidance and the other example smoke 60 cigs a day you will end up with something nasty.

How can he be 100% spot on when the results of a post mortem have not emerged yet?
This rush to judgement is getting tedious.

The parents will have bene informed of the cause of death by the hospital, but you wish to challenge it.
Why ?

Youngsters, especially very young children are prone to pneumonia.


Pneumonia is the single largest cause of death in children worldwide. Every year, it kills an estimated 1.4 million children under the age of five years, accounting for 18% of all deaths of children under five years old worldwide.

https://www.who.int/maternal_child_adolescent/news_events/news/2011/pneumonia/en/

Can you not see my point of view from the posts I've made, Angoose?
You post facebook/reactions from a distraught mother on an event as fact before they can be 100% verified.
I wish to see a bit of restraint.
Just because me and others refuse to join in with the hysterical amateur statisticians m.o. on here you seem to think I should be treated with suspicion?

Why do you post incessant second hand stuff from the web that can only enflame worry in people?
You are the type of person that can do more harm than good, imo

Do you suppose that more people will see my re-post on here than will see it on Facebook or the various news sites that have covered it?

We have a number of individuals on this largely irrelevant forum who appear to believe that COVID-19 only impacts elderly people with significant underlying health conditions. This post was made as part of the ongoing debate on that matter.

By the way, I am not accusing you of being in that group, but your posts could be interpreted as tending towards that view.

As stated what ever our Views 3 weeks Lockdown , see how the figures go

Dreadful news Clyde , Most Family cannot even visit

0.25% of COVID-19 'victims' are fit & healthy young people

Angoose, I've made my point ad nauseum so I'm not going to continue.

You have a different view to me about how one arrives at the truth of a situation

I'll leave it at that

Fair enough.

Angoose is like some geezer at a soccerball match continuously whining on and on and on as he reports on how many goals teams are scoring  - talk about an wind up

it is pathetic

Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:57PM, Fire-and-Ice wrote:

How can he be 100% spot on when the results of a post mortem have not emerged yet?This rush to judgement is getting tedious.

Agree, Autopsy  along with full toxicology required before cov-sars2 can be given as sole COD. Think a death cert takes a while and not sure on exact rules in Eng about those in or previously under a doctors care or in /released from hospital.

Mar 25, 2020 -- 4:10PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Horrible leftie biased paper the Guardian.

Dr C, I'm sure you remember this. Yes Prime Minister-the Newspapers you can skip to 55 sec in.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

^^lol again.

Piece in the guardian today (dated today, 2.20pm) suggests everyone who has died so far has underlying health conditions, or vulnerable. That said the same piece also says the youngest so far is believed to be 33.

Nice one boxing

Darlo Bantam 25 Mar 20 21:49 
Piece in the guardian today (dated today, 2.20pm) suggests everyone who has died so far has underlying health conditions, or vulnerable. That said the same piece also says the youngest so far is believed to be 33

Seen 4 deaths today with no underlying conditions and in 30s..

Was having a look at the obituaries in and around the country and to me looks like more than usual amount of "suddenly" but not a huge amount. The gov have not restricted funerals and think this needs addressed, most crematoriums are online ready and this will need to be the way if they even remain open,also heard a few adverts for a certain funeral directors on radio lately. Would be easier to go straight to cremy from hospital and do a service later in year or next year.Not meaning to be flippant or disrepectful. Tough times ahead.

https://twitter.com/BlackXList/status/1242934201651003393

Be careful get one of these..

Today's figures according to the Guardian again. Something doesn't tally up anyway.

A further 28 people have died in England, bringing the total number of confirmed deaths in the UK to 465.
The UK’s Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said 414 people in England have now died, while 22 have died in both Scotland and Wales and seven people have died in Northern Ireland. The latest patients to die in England were aged between 47 and 93 years-old and all except the 47-year-old had underlying health conditions. Their families have been informed, the DHSC has said.

https://twitter.com/DominicMc999/status/1242824906817048576

Stinks,but not surprising as expected the figures look wrong not testing deaths..it's upto familirs and staff to bring it to attention or will be another one of these 5yr down the line jobs...

I know a doc? FFS get wise and stop believing these malicious tw4ts.
Quoting anonymous people from twitter beggars belief.

Some of these young people might  have "pre-existing conditions " that papers would'nt  mention. eg. Very bad diet. Too little food /not enough vitamins  or in some cases too much food. That would have an effect on their imune system. Correct ?

Imperial College London's Neil Ferguson, who's  modelling the Goverments action is based on, said  yesterday that upto Two Thirds of CV victims died WITH CV, not OF CV and would have probably died this year.

Do you think that will be of some comfort to the relatives of those who have lost their lives ?

It wasn't meant to be , dopie, just stating the facts, and as a stranger I doubt anything I could say could relieve thier grief, you seem fond of playing the emotion card when you've nothing sensible to say.

Neil Ferguson's opinion, no matter how well informed (or not), is just that, an opinion.

Best pass that on to Downing St, most of the actions Government have taken  have been based on what Ferguson and his group predicted, I was getting the impression you didn't think they had gone far enough following his OPINION.

I'd imagine she said "so called virus" sarcastically mocking those who don't think it exists or it's nothing....

I suspect that you are correct.

37 year old British Diplomat dead, no reports of any existing health conditions..

Is that the guy in Hungary, reported yesterday.

Neil Ferguson's opinion, no matter how well informed (or not), is just that, an opinion.

he is indeed a health professional on infectious disease, yesterday you said another health professional's opinion on the death of the 18 yo in LA was good enough for you, but not so keen on Neil Ferguson's ?

It is relatively straight forward for a doctor to determine whether an individual had contracted COVID-19 and subsequently declare it as the cause of death.

To state that two thirds of COVID-19 victims would "probably have died this year" in clearly just an opinion and something that cannot be determined.
The use of the word probably provides a bit of a clue.

What about underlying health issues not known, autopsy ?

he said upto two thirds, surely his experience in the field counts

A nurse, in her 20s, at one of the London hospitals most overrun has died by suicide. Probably the first of very many knock-on impact of this virus on us as individuals and on society.

that's incredibly sad

Its pretty obvious that a disease that affects the old and sick the most is going to kill a big percentage of people who would be making up the 500,000 annual death figures. Whether its 50% or 66% or more nobody can be sure but its going to be a lot.

Darren, I've stated that the man is well informed on the subject, infinitely more than I will ever be.

However, he has made a blanket statement in relation to a virus that the world is a long way away from understanding.
He massively changed the estimate being generated from his model, primarily as a result of updated data gathered from Italy.

As more data and knowledge is gained in respect to the virus, his estimate may well change again.
As may his opinion on how many would have died regardless of the virus.

It would be very important to segregate those who would die soon anyway and those who had health conditions (perhaps very severe) that were recoverable. To try and suggest because they had, that it's not that bad, is just flawed, but people try that on here. Like you might temporarily have immune suppression due to something X (like temporary chemo), be clobbered by this, but if you hadn't, then go on to live another 50 years.. Even none temporary conditions can be managed for years.

Agree with that. There's a startling difference between some of the vulnerable categories.

How does this kind of thing work with reported flu or perhaps pneumonia deaths.

They should certainly analyze the deaths into categories as the higher percentage of deaths that are of people who were already in their final months the less justification for continuing a shutdown and wrecking the economy there would be.

I'm sure they are, it's hard to imagine they don't have many experts working on these things worldwide as I type, some paid by government, some on their own initiative. This will be one of the most studied things by medical and statistical and model building people in history you'd imagine?
It's impossible to think that while everyone on the internet shouts vocal opinions on the subject as they find it interesting, that the people with entire careers applicable to this area have decided they aren't interested, have put their feet up and stuck on Game of Thrones.
There will be endless reports and stats, if we wait a little bit.

This will be one of the most studied things by medical and statistical and model building people in history you'd imagine?

Apparently it already is, and was more than two weeks ago. Something which didn't even exist four months ago.

Hospital today have announced she didn't test positive for coronavirus, though the coroner informed family that it was a coronavirus death. Strange. Or does this add to our convoluted reporting of figures?

wtf so it's true...

hmmmmm

Got a link for that Darlo?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/chloe-middleton-death-21-year-old-not-recorded-nhs-covid-19-related

what's going on 'ere then??
rush to judgement?

Re pasting this article:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think


The simplest way to judge whether we have an exceptionally lethal disease is to look at the death rates. Are more people dying than we would expect to die anyway in a given week or month? Statistically, we would expect about 51,000 to die in Britain this month.

At the time of writing, 422 deaths are linked to Covid-19 — so 0.8 per cent of that expected total. On a global basis, we’d expect 14 million to die over the first three months of the year. The world’s 18,944 coronavirus deaths represent 0.14 per cent of that total. These figures might shoot up but they are, right now, lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu). Not figures that would, in and of themselves, cause drastic global reactions.

'A Facebook post by Middleton’s aunt claiming she had no underlying health issues has since been deleted. Her family has been subjected to online abuse and accusations of spreading alarmist news about her death.'

x factor mentality 5 mins of fame

I remember the days when you new someone had died ,you closed the curtains,now you head for social media,contact press ,tell the world

No so called mainstream media outlet nor govt advisor has spoken of ‘normal’ monthly death rates. They’re refusing to put this into any context whatsoever.

True statisticians must be livid with how the data is being presented.

Just remember, the brains behind the Imperial College model went from predicting 500,000 UK deaths from COVID-19 to just 20,000 deaths in a matter of days.

That's not a criticism of either the man or his model.
It's an observation of actual events to highlight the volatility of the situation.

Regardless of how well informed, experienced, and knowledgeable any individual or group of individuals are on such matters, they simply cannot make accurate predictions or definitive conclusions on events to date.

They can provide an informed opinion, but there will be an equally knowledgeable subject matter expert who will provide a significantly different opinion.

That's the reality of highly complex subjects where quality data is a scare resource.

is that a quote or what you think? ^^

21 yr old and 18 yr old,now trying to sweep deaths under the carpet,they wwre right all along..wtf

Eh?

angoose that is unfair, the 500,000 number is if nothing was done compared to what is now supposedly being done now.

Aye, picked up the wrong end of the stick with that element of my post, was simply trying to highlight that the model inputs were originally flawed, the Italian experience not being allowed for.

The general point remains valid, it is a fast moving situation where even the most knowledgeable will significantly alter their views as more data becomes available.

Any updates on Chloe's cause of death?

heart attack

Odd chain of events leading eventually to the truth.

The Guardian article linked to this has been ‘removed on 28 March 2020 pending review’