Things are bad in Italy

The whole thing is a circus, firstly its singing happy bday washing hands self isolating and now the government are looking for herd immunity which essentially encourages people to get it. Whats the point in anyone over 70 staying inside for 4 months of misery only to hobble out on a stick to be infected by an asylum seeker living next door or someone coming in from overseas that hasnt got " herd immunity". If the uk acted like an island properly vetting people , the virus may have been much better managed but you reap what you sow- if you have a multi cultural society and want open borders that we had in the EU dont start crying when the sh1t hits the fan.

heard hancock again this morning I,m very confused
8000 private beds used by nhs patients,means 8000 infected private patients needing 8000 nhs beds
as mawquaber would say total sum gain, NIL

OR IS it like hancocks/doris idea of 50,000 new nurses because their not sacking 32,000, no wonder NHS is struggling with these number cruncher,s massaging figures

Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:55PM, Cider wrote:

As being an EU member state is doing so much better for countries like Italy, France ans Spain? Give us a moment to ponder that one.

Don't worry, we are catching them up daily.

Ffs lads,it's not a time for party politics, it's time to get the sleaves rolled up, was more looking for some posativity than turning it into a bash the gov job. Italy has supposedly good health care, the regions involved are not poor by any streatch of the imagination. Don't think the EU has said much or pooled resources, looks more like every man for themselves overthere . Was more looking for how we as a country are going to cope, but all you morons  want is for  there to be massive casualties  and the gov to get the blame.sad stuff.careful what you wish for, karma is a biatch

Even the labour party hasn't sunk to the depths of politically weaponising the virus.

Apologies for the poor spelling can't belive the retorich, disturbing tbh

Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:59PM, politicspunter wrote:

Mar 15, 2020 -- 11:55AM, Cider wrote:As being an EU member state is doing so much better for countries like Italy, France ans Spain? Give us a moment to ponder that one.Don't worry, we are catching them up daily.

No, we're not.

You'll get no sense from the handful on here who hate Boris enough to hope this goes badly.

Saddo maybe it is the simple fact that the goverment is doing absolutely nothing except blowing hot wind rather than being proactive and taking measures,Hancock this morning was chronic, what kind of a statement is"we might have to isolate the over 70's in a few weeks" it is pure and simple bolloxology.

What's your suggestion? How do we protect them if we can't keep them alive if we get swamped?

I suspect the more deaths the better for some of the haters, shameful stuff.

The government is lying through its teeth but lets not pretend itd be better under Labour.. if we adopted corbyns mantra of welcoming everyone half on here would prob be infected already. If I was over 70 I wouldnt want to be stuck inside for 4 months and lets face it, we're all on borrowed time over the three score and ten anyway- sooner be dead than stuck inside as an OAP but each to their own

epl.sport act themselves ,government will follow,
people stocking up
trump bans uk flights,12 hrs later uk foreign office warns against all essential flights ,you couldn't go if you fooooking wanted/needed to,

get the pattern the government is 24 hrs behind everyone else

The blog I was reading, the doctor was warning every country and saying how everyone took it too lightly and did not listen, also hospitals over there fckd up with basic hygiene control.It got passed through wards and onto visiters, no one took it seriously and now he is warning the world.They have passed the point of containment.

Saddo,not true,the current path of "herd immunity" is wrong imo,229 scientists and Wayne Rooney have questioned it as well.

Apparently there is a lot of business interests between the region badly infected and china, regular flights and lot of contact , wuhan is a business center, industrial, medical, everything.

I don't bother pretending that I know better than anyone else lapsy, opinions are like ****s, everybody's got one. I also do not bother with the TV because I assume it is like this place, and then some.
I will do my best to stay clear of it and offer help to anyone I know who needs it. Best course of action I can think of.

politicspunter 15 Mar 20 11:50 
Mar 15, 2020 -- 11:48AM, 1st time poster wrote:

wouldn't want to be cynical but if any of the 27 countries in the EU had any spare ventilators where do doris/Barclay/farage think we,ll be in the queue for any spare ones, doris banned hancock from co ordinating with the EU over this


The EU? Let them survive with their ventilators. We will die proudly without ours.

The EU27 are all looking out for themselves. Each country is following different paths with most shutting the borders. The idea that any of these countries will be sharing or dividing up resources fairly is nonsense. Every country is going to be overwhelmed and will do what nation states do - try and protect their own people first.

Another negative side effect of the social media era. Some people now deem themselves to be an authority on subjects they've read a few tweets about, and looked at a few pictures.

Think it will slowly dawn on people that this virus is something that you have to catch and come through...sure you can pause it with draconian measures but that is almost certainly just a temporary measure.....I'd have a good bet that in the near future China will deliberatley and tactically start infecting its own population...it just makes sense...the 'herd immunity' approach is almost certainly the best way to tackle it no matter how hard it is to stomach....as more and more people catch this and come out of the other side, a lot of the fear will disappear and people will try and get back to normal....sadly it will eventually just become the norm.

wolf, I am insulted by the suggestion that anyone over 75 needs a stick! Many of those over 75 are fitter than me but I can still walk 2 miles a day without any difficulty and my wife (who still plays competitive tennis at 73) and I still run a small business without any staff although that will grind to a halt as well.

The real villains spreading this are the media. Reporters and cameramen standing like crows outside every public building, hospital and even in St Peters Square in Rome. ALL BBC and other reporters should be recalled and put into isolation immediately.

That's right Eric, the dilemma is the people who aren't strong enough to fight it off without medical support.

Italy’s healthcare system is one of the best in the world. Either they’re handling this virus all wrong or their troubles will soon be ours.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:33PM, Cider wrote:

Another negative side effect of the social media era. Some people now deem themselves to be an authority on subjects they've read a few tweets about, and looked at a few pictures.

like you?

A bit of both I suspect. It is not the healthcare that is at fault, it is social behaviour. Italians are not renowned for obeying rules and kiss everyone in sight at social gatherings.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:43PM, Injera wrote:

Italy’s healthcare system is one of the best in the world. Either they’re handling this virus all wrong or their troubles will soon be ours.

Almost certainly.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:43PM, politicspunter wrote:

Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Cider wrote:Another negative side effect of the social media era. Some people now deem themselves to be an authority on subjects they've read a few tweets about, and looked at a few pictures.like you?

Nope, my view is to follow the official advice. Not change ours due to the actions of other virtue signalling individuals, including country leaders.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:42PM, sageform wrote:

wolf, I am insulted by the suggestion that anyone over 75 needs a stick! Many of those over 75 are fitter than me but I can still walk 2 miles a day without any difficulty and my wife (who still plays competitive tennis at 73) and I still run a small business without any staff although that will grind to a halt as well.The real villains spreading this are the media. Reporters and cameramen standing like crows outside every public building, hospital and even in St Peters Square in Rome. ALL BBC and other reporters should be recalled and put into isolation immediately.

Fair enough on the stick comment Certainly agree regarding the media, sky news showing reporters in locked down areas- how were they even allowed in there?

Eric.Cartman 15 Mar 20 12:39 
Think it will slowly dawn on people that this virus is something that you have to catch and come through...sure you can pause it with draconian measures but that is almost certainly just a temporary measure.....I'd have a good bet that in the near future China will deliberatley and tactically start infecting its own population...it just makes sense...the 'herd immunity' approach is almost certainly the best way to tackle it no matter how hard it is to stomach....as more and more people catch this and come out of the other side, a lot of the fear will disappear and people will try and get back to normal....sadly it will eventually just become the norm.


Another expert..

Eric.Cartman 15 Mar 20 12:39 
Think it will slowly dawn on people that this virus is something that you have to catch and come through...sure you can pause it with draconian measures but that is almost certainly just a temporary measure.....I'd have a good bet that in the near future China will deliberatley and tactically start infecting its own population...it just makes sense...the 'herd immunity' approach is almost certainly the best way to tackle it no matter how hard it is to stomach....as more and more people catch this and come out of the other side, a lot of the fear will disappear and people will try and get back to normal....sadly it will eventually just become the norm.


Another expert..

cider is correct about social media of course. Someone posted fake health advise on another thread and people were happy to lap it up.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:45PM, Cider wrote:

Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:43PM, politicspunter wrote:Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Cider wrote:Another negative side effect of the social media era. Some people now deem themselves to be an authority on subjects they've read a few tweets about, and looked at a few pictures.like you?Nope, my view is to follow the official advice. Not change ours due to the actions of other virtue signalling individuals, including country leaders.

How do we know which countries leaders are correct though? Why should the UK, by some miracle, have less folks test positive/less deaths than others similar?

We don't, so why don't you all just stfu?

No expert fella...but hiding in your house for the rest of your life doesn't seem to be a long term solution to me

Mar 15, 2020 -- 1:48PM, politicspunter wrote:

Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:45PM, Cider wrote:Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:43PM, politicspunter wrote:Mar 15, 2020 -- 12:33PM, Cider wrote:Another negative side effect of the social media era. Some people now deem themselves to be an authority on subjects they've read a few tweets about, and looked at a few pictures.like you?Nope, my view is to follow the official advice. Not change ours due to the actions of other virtue signalling individuals, including country leaders.How do we know which countries leaders are correct though? Why should the UK, by some miracle, have less folks test positive/less deaths than others similar?

We don't but we don't know the other strategies in similar countries are better either. I'm confident the scientific and medical advice that is leading to the decision making isn't made up, it's informed judgement. I'm also confident there are facts that are not in the public domain, and we're only responsible for ourselves. There's no law against self isolating or not going to a public event for example, it's a free country and people are free to take any action they feel appropriate (within the law).

Herd immunity has been abandoned anyway according to hancock..

The big problem with advice in this kind of situation is if it's wrong  or the laws of unintended consequences kicking in.Things in China appear to have calmed remarkably. Also some countries appear completey  unaffected, China must have a shed load of cheap medical gear.

It's nuts though bnb. Leo Varadker shuts down all schools, why don't we. Yes as Ireland has chosen to do something, we should follow like sheep even though it's against our own expert judgement. It's absurd to be honest.

In uncharted waters people will choose different routes.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 2:05PM, Injera wrote:

In uncharted waters people will choose different routes.

Yes, and to suggest that we in the UK will be better off than everyone else is nuts.

The jury’s out pp.

We have plans in place. Let’s believe in expert advice and make good decisions.

Scotland going to ignore hancocks isolating over 70,s advice,
the herd immunity effort been rowed back because numbers for 50 million volunteers wernt looking great, ,
hancock/doris week after week, we,re following the advice,24 hrs after his latest advice hancock on 2 live tv stations throws expert scientist valance under the no 24 bus, looks like we,re back to who needs experts today

None essential travel only to the US, so the rich can travel there but we isn't allowed

Deffo another agenda behind all this

Of course there is 

regards doris/hancock begging for any company to make ventilators
surely the patents,safety regs/standards/ testing etc,etc means this is just spouting rollocks

Google William Hanage the Guardian Epidemologist Herd Immunity Britain.

This is what your goverment was trying to do,others on here colluding with them and to top it all being told to stfu.

Aye, when you land the job as Health Secretary give me a shout.

Your house is on fire, and the people whom you have trusted with your care are not trying to put it out. Even though they knew it was coming, and could see what happened to the neighbours as they were overwhelmed with terrifying speed, the UK government has inexplicably chosen to encourage the flames, in the misguided notion that somehow they will be able to control them.

When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real.

Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
Read more
Let me take the arguments on their merits. The stated aim has been to achieve “herd immunity” in order to manage the outbreak and prevent a catastrophic “second wave” next winter – even if Matt Hancock has tried to put that particular genie back in the bottle this weekend. A large proportion of the population is at lower risk of developing severe disease: roughly speaking anyone up to the age of 40. So the reasoning goes that even though in a perfect world we’d not want anyone to take the risk of infection, generating immunity in younger people is a way of protecting the population as a whole.

Advertisement
We talk about vaccines generating herd immunity, so why is this different? Because this is not a vaccine. This is an actual pandemic that will make a very large number of people sick, and some of them will die. Even though the mortality rate is likely quite low, a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number. And the mortality rate will climb when the NHS is overwhelmed. This would be expected to happen, even if we make the generous assumption that the government were entirely successful in restricting the virus to the low-risk population, at the peak of the outbreak the numbers requiring critical care would be greater than the number of beds available. This is made worse by the fact that people who are badly ill tend to remain so for a long time, which increases the burden.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
And of course you can’t restrict it to this age group. Think of all the people aged between 20 and 40 who work in healthcare, or old people’s homes. You don’t need many introductions into settings like these for what we might coyly call “severe outcomes”. In Washington State, nearly all the deaths reported so far have been associated with nursing homes. Is everyone in a high-risk group supposed to withdraw themselves from society for six months until they can emerge once the (so far entirely imaginary) second wave has been averted?

About that second wave: let me be clear. Second waves are real things, and we have seen them in flu pandemics. This is not a flu pandemic. Flu rules do not apply. There might well be a second wave, I honestly don’t know. But vulnerable people should not be exposed to a virus right now in the service of a hypothetical future.

Keeping people safe means self-isolation if you develop symptoms, but the official advice here is also misleading. While it is of paramount importance that sick people stay at home to avoid infecting others, it is increasingly clear that transmission can occur before symptoms develop. We know this is true from modelling and observational studies. I have seen it happen myself. We do not know how often it occurs or how important it is in the epidemiology, but it definitely does happen.

However, arguments about the case fatality rate, the transmission parameters and presymptomatic transmission all miss the point. This virus is capable of shutting down countries. You should not want to be the next after Wuhan, Iran, Italy or Spain. In those places, the healthcare systems have broken down. In Italy, the choices of whom to save and whom to allow to die are real. You should instead look to the example of South Korea, which, through a combination of intense surveillance and social distancing, appears to have gained some semblance of control over the virus. We can learn from South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, all of which have so far done a good job mitigating the worst outcomes despite having reported cases early in the pandemic, and in the case of South Korea, suffering a substantial outbreak.

This coronavirus crisis has forced the retirement of pantomime Johnson
Andrew Rawnsley
Andrew Rawnsley
Read more
Advertisement
The UK should not be trying to create herd immunity, that will take care of itself. Policy should be directed at slowing the outbreak to a (more) manageable rate. What this looks like is strong social distancing. Anyone who can work from home, should. People who do not yet work from home should be encouraged to do so. Employers should guarantee sick pay, including for contacts of known cases, and do everything they can to discourage the practice of “presenteeism”. You should not shake hands. Not with anyone. You should wash your hands for 20 seconds several times a day and whenever you enter your home (or someone else’s home). Call a halt to large gatherings. Educate people about masks and how they should be reserved for the medical professionals who need them. All this and more should have started weeks ago.

Deciding whether to close schools is hard; they do so much more than just education. But this is a pandemic, and so you should expect they will be shut sooner or later. In Hong Kong, they have been shut for weeks. If you hear any talking head on TV explain that kids don’t get sick, remember that doesn’t mean kids cannot be infected and transmit. It’s probably a good idea to hold off on visits to Nana and Grandpa.

The most fundamental function of a government is to keep its people safe. It is from this that it derives its authority, the confidence of the people and its legitimacy. Nobody should be under the illusion that this is something that can be dodged through somehow manipulating a virus that we are only beginning to understand. This will not pass you by; this is not a tornado, it is a hurricane.

Don’t panic, but do prepare. If your government won’t help you, do it yourself.

Your house is on fire, and the people whom you have trusted with your care are not trying to put it out. Even though they knew it was coming, and could see what happened to the neighbours as they were overwhelmed with terrifying speed, the UK government has inexplicably chosen to encourage the flames, in the misguided notion that somehow they will be able to control them.

When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real.

Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
Read more
Let me take the arguments on their merits. The stated aim has been to achieve “herd immunity” in order to manage the outbreak and prevent a catastrophic “second wave” next winter – even if Matt Hancock has tried to put that particular genie back in the bottle this weekend. A large proportion of the population is at lower risk of developing severe disease: roughly speaking anyone up to the age of 40. So the reasoning goes that even though in a perfect world we’d not want anyone to take the risk of infection, generating immunity in younger people is a way of protecting the population as a whole.

Advertisement
We talk about vaccines generating herd immunity, so why is this different? Because this is not a vaccine. This is an actual pandemic that will make a very large number of people sick, and some of them will die. Even though the mortality rate is likely quite low, a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number. And the mortality rate will climb when the NHS is overwhelmed. This would be expected to happen, even if we make the generous assumption that the government were entirely successful in restricting the virus to the low-risk population, at the peak of the outbreak the numbers requiring critical care would be greater than the number of beds available. This is made worse by the fact that people who are badly ill tend to remain so for a long time, which increases the burden.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
And of course you can’t restrict it to this age group. Think of all the people aged between 20 and 40 who work in healthcare, or old people’s homes. You don’t need many introductions into settings like these for what we might coyly call “severe outcomes”. In Washington State, nearly all the deaths reported so far have been associated with nursing homes. Is everyone in a high-risk group supposed to withdraw themselves from society for six months until they can emerge once the (so far entirely imaginary) second wave has been averted?

About that second wave: let me be clear. Second waves are real things, and we have seen them in flu pandemics. This is not a flu pandemic. Flu rules do not apply. There might well be a second wave, I honestly don’t know. But vulnerable people should not be exposed to a virus right now in the service of a hypothetical future.

Keeping people safe means self-isolation if you develop symptoms, but the official advice here is also misleading. While it is of paramount importance that sick people stay at home to avoid infecting others, it is increasingly clear that transmission can occur before symptoms develop. We know this is true from modelling and observational studies. I have seen it happen myself. We do not know how often it occurs or how important it is in the epidemiology, but it definitely does happen.

However, arguments about the case fatality rate, the transmission parameters and presymptomatic transmission all miss the point. This virus is capable of shutting down countries. You should not want to be the next after Wuhan, Iran, Italy or Spain. In those places, the healthcare systems have broken down. In Italy, the choices of whom to save and whom to allow to die are real. You should instead look to the example of South Korea, which, through a combination of intense surveillance and social distancing, appears to have gained some semblance of control over the virus. We can learn from South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, all of which have so far done a good job mitigating the worst outcomes despite having reported cases early in the pandemic, and in the case of South Korea, suffering a substantial outbreak.

This coronavirus crisis has forced the retirement of pantomime Johnson
Andrew Rawnsley
Andrew Rawnsley
Read more
Advertisement
The UK should not be trying to create herd immunity, that will take care of itself. Policy should be directed at slowing the outbreak to a (more) manageable rate. What this looks like is strong social distancing. Anyone who can work from home, should. People who do not yet work from home should be encouraged to do so. Employers should guarantee sick pay, including for contacts of known cases, and do everything they can to discourage the practice of “presenteeism”. You should not shake hands. Not with anyone. You should wash your hands for 20 seconds several times a day and whenever you enter your home (or someone else’s home). Call a halt to large gatherings. Educate people about masks and how they should be reserved for the medical professionals who need them. All this and more should have started weeks ago.

Deciding whether to close schools is hard; they do so much more than just education. But this is a pandemic, and so you should expect they will be shut sooner or later. In Hong Kong, they have been shut for weeks. If you hear any talking head on TV explain that kids don’t get sick, remember that doesn’t mean kids cannot be infected and transmit. It’s probably a good idea to hold off on visits to Nana and Grandpa.

The most fundamental function of a government is to keep its people safe. It is from this that it derives its authority, the confidence of the people and its legitimacy. Nobody should be under the illusion that this is something that can be dodged through somehow manipulating a virus that we are only beginning to understand. This will not pass you by; this is not a tornado, it is a hurricane.

Don’t panic, but do prepare. If your government won’t help you, do it yourself.

Thank you, The Giggilo.

The Guardian never wrong about owt of course 

You may well be an Express man but hey ho what harm.

I don't read any paper, but 'hey ho' thanks.

I found that article very vague.

No worries,you have a very strong view on the guardian for a fella that reads no papers.

The Guardian

What had become an irrelevant load of shyte Delighted to have a crisis to report on , and push more shyte on its followers

I know Guardian Readers, they are sheep no different to Sun or Mirror readers, they just think they are better, utter conceit.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 3:42PM, saddo wrote:

I know Guardian Readers, they are sheep no different to Sun or Mirror readers, they just think they are better, utter conceit.

Lol, and you don't read papers!

Lol? Is that it? More scorn from a Guardian man, you couldn't make it up.

Mar 15, 2020 -- 3:45PM, saddo wrote:

Lol? Is that it? More scorn from a Guardian man, you couldn't make it up.

Lol, you don't read any papers, remember?

I've already said that, are you a tad slow?

Apologies if so, I'll desist.

https://twitter.com/Prof_S_Taylor/status/1238598239902994433

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1238279302468288512

A bit of WHO  or MSNBC take your pick,there are lots more..

Mar 15, 2020 -- 3:47PM, saddo wrote:

I've already said that, are you a tad slow?

Lol, an eejit like you that claims he never reads any papers, but also claims he knows what papers other folks read?

Here in Denmark when the number of infected rose to 500 yesterday all schools, universities and most of the public sector was shut down immediately. Events with 100+ people is now prohibited and a new law was rushed through. Many people here thought the response came rather late..


Deaths 0.

"something went wrong"

Going to blame each other (China, USA, Russia)??

I should imagine anyone over a certain age wouldn't need to told not to mix with others unless they have to.

And keep off public transport as well.

can never understand brexiteers/tory/right wing people they treat the same article depending on which paper prints it,its not the guardians opinion its a sciencetists

ifsomeones tipping me a 33,s winner I,m not fussed if its the guardian or express to be honest

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

Denmark 864 cases but they started fsr too late like us and three deaths..

is that
3456 cases
and
12 deaths,

or a sticky finger/button

Borisphobia more like.

politicspunter 15 Mar 20 14:49 
Mar 15, 2020 -- 2:47PM, saddo wrote:

I've already said that, are you a tad slow?


Lol, an eejit like you that claims he never reads any papers, but also claims he knows what papers other folks read..

Yep put up MNSBC trump propagandists channel,even the capitalists over there don't seem to want to knock off the old unlike us.

thegiggilo 15 Mar 20 14:49 
https://twitter.com/Prof_S_Taylor/status/1238598239902994433

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1238279302468288512

A bit of WHO  or MSNBC take your pick,there are lots more

1st time poster 15 Mar 20 14:58 
ifsomeones tipping me a 33,s winner I,m not fussed if its the guardian or express to be honest

Put it on wrong post,as below.

for all the people wanting everything shut down I give you France

shut everything in sight with nationwide restrictions but continuing with local elections

Mar 15, 2020 -- 4:13PM, sewter lives again wrote:

for all the people wanting everything shut down I give you Franceshut everything in sight with nationwide restrictions but continuing with local elections

Turnout is down a little there so far but nothing disastrous..

France, local elections 2001-2020:

Turnout 12 PM CET

2001: 20.6%
2008: 23.0%
2014: 23.2%
2020: 18.4%

368 deaths in the last 24 hours in Italy.

More than the worst day in Wuhan.

everyone saying,hoping oiris and the secientist,s are right I,m hoping their miles out because that's coming here within 3 weeks

most be hard for those whose family are miles away me and the mrs can see ours within 10 mins everyday,be going through peoples minds btowards the end of this week that this time could be the last time, all our 4 over 80 and on more tablets between them ,than a giant pkt of squiggles, of course the lucky flat ersather,s can worry about Lingfield sp,s been fair

Very sad numbers.

local paper in Lombardy region now has 10 pages of deaths instead of the normal one,

what's killed these people? Is it cardiac arrest? if so are they mostly on the type of BP meds that increase ace2?
This anti maleria drug that Japan is claiming to have good results with?                        We need to try something.

why are they disinfecting the streets over there ? ...i don't get that bit .



people wearing masks when out walking the dog and jogging  too  before they were  told to get off the streets   

Whoa...look at Italy go...spanking everyone's ass in the % stakes..worldometer coronavirus...why they so high or are they just telling the truth or is no one telling the truth

hard to say black shuck  ...maybe it got going faster there due to many different  reasons  ... they are ahead of us  but i think they are slowly getting on top of it (best they can) by lockdown .

  advice given here is slow  ...it's 48-72 hours too slow  ...the message about non essential contact should've been given 3 days ago

Italy have twice as many ventilators as the uk

and remember this is a NHS STocked up for a no deal Brexit,where would we have been 12 months ago

if....big if....if the figures are believable...look at germanies cases to deaths compared to italies...italy is not a backward nation

germany like Italy is another outlier,loads of positiuve tests but few deaths, but cases tell us nothing

shocking scenes from inside hospital in Cremona [ ch 4 ] ,nhs staff must be shoiting themselves for whats coming their way
for normal pneumonia they put people on their fronts when attached to ventilators to help get blood pumping but not one that far gone has responded,
in the icu units % dying will be over 15%

giggilo  the one who wishes the virus on those he doesn't agree with   so nasty  but then the new left progressives from the guardian relish this type of approach

tell them not to worry, it will wash through.

people dont like me saying that,so I,ll say it again whilst smiling

why.  BECAUSE I FOOOOKING CAN