Would it be anti-semitic

What is defined as anti semitic???

this thread could well qualify

But I do not regard criticism of Israel's behaviour in the Middle East as anti semetic

I regard it as fair comment, I am on the side of the Palestinians...which is my right

I'm sure they will be comforted by your'e undying support.

Would it be anti-Semitic to vote Labour?

If you vote to get anti-Semites into power then you are tarred by the same brush.

I believe the case against Labour being anti-Semetic, is strong enough to reflect on anybody who supports Labour.

And I'm afraid there is little Labour can do about the perception. It can only get stronger.

Will people be refused employment if they have voted Labour?

Or perhaps those who vote Tory and agree with the 'letterbox' comment will also get the tin tack.

Unemployment figuers set to rocket.

any jew putting his future in the hands of a hard right tory party led by a racist,homoiphobic,mysoginist ,bullyboy bigot ,deserves anything that may come their way, should go to the synagogue and thank their lucky stars they wernt 2 70 old labour acticists beat up in the name of the brave tory party, like everyone else after the election and Brexit ,who are the brexiteers coming for next it wont be me and if its the jews you,ll have to lump it,hard right tory divide and rule number one from the nasty party playbook, on the Brightside pritti might do a bit of freelancing and arrange to tunnel you back into Israel, every cloud

Extreme left, marxist politicians ideologically have to hate jews.

Maybe today's news will resonate a smidgeon with the public who think Corbyn/McDonnell are nice old gentlemen who will only bankrupt the country by spending inefficiently and taxing the energy out of wealth creators.

No they would put measures in place to harm various sections of our society that they ideologcally hate.

Unfortuntely a combination of Hitler/Stalin and Joey Essex as leader of Labour would still see the midlands/welsh/north west/east masses still vote for them.

whoever knew so many old white male bigots cared about racism?

I have no problem with Jews, I am sure there are good and bad Jews as for any other group

My problem is with Israel...a country that should never have been created.

The resulting carnage in the Middle East has been beyond evil

Unfortunately  we cannot uncreate Israel, so I campaign peacefully for better treatment for the Palestinians

I do not support terrorism

Just my personal view on this

My problem is with Israel...a country that should never have been created.



It's generally agreed that it is not anti-semitic to criticise Israel and the policies of its government. However, some might say it is anti-semitic to say that the country should never have been created.

Jews and Arabs were living in Palestine in 1948 - the Palestinians refused to accept the territory they were offered.

but it is the links In Labour that so many have with extremist groups

you also have more and more joining the party who support the book's solution

its safe to presume that if the torys had 550,000 members they,d have more islamaphobic problems,more anti semetic posts on social media

In the party we are well on our way.

You have to take extra care these days.

I enjoy dressing as an old Jewish man and singing... I'm reviewing the situation.

It's generally agreed that it is not anti-semitic to criticise Israel and the policies of its government

Really?

Not by Labour Friends of Israel or the Israeli Government or their dirty tricks department!

I enjoy dressing as an old Jewish man and singing...


Wish you had said earlier. I saw Fiddler on the roof quite recently down by the Embankment!

Jews and Arabs were living in Palestine in 1948 - the Palestinians refused to accept the territory they were offered.

I-agree-with-Nick

Why should they, they were living in the country of Palestine, their own country?????????

The Jews in Palestine had emigrated to Palestine knowing Israel was going to be created, when enough Jews had settled there.

The Balfour agreement.

The Palestinians could not stop the Jews because Palestine was occupied by Britain.

The resulting carnage in the Middle East makes me feel ill.

Since 1990 the West has invaded the Middle East to destroy any strong Arab Leader who may threaten Israel.

The injustice and evil of this is beyond me.

It was British territory. There was no nation of Palestine. The UN agreed to divide the territory.  As said, the Arabs refused to accept the proposal.

In some ways, you could draw a parallel with the creation of Pakistan.

UBLE/REGY 26 Nov 19 21:51 

Since 1990 the West has invaded the Middle East to destroy any strong Arab Leader who may threaten Israel.


Utter utter  garbage
I have heard it all now, oh you forgot to say " only my opinion of course "

It was NOT British Territory.

Palestine was occupied by the Turkish Ottoman Empire until their defeat in WW1.

Britian having liberated Palestine, should have left it to be run by the people who lived there

basically Palestine Arabs, with a sprinkling of Christians and Jews, less than 1%

In fact the Palestinians were actually better off under the Ottoman Turks, at least they were Muslim.

only my opinion of course

for Pumphol

Uble - opinion is being generous - you're making some of this up as you go along!

After WW1, Palestine was approximately 14% Jewish, 10% Christian and 76% Muslim.

Will the Ottoman Empire have another go or have they got their feet up?

If you go back long enough in history, everyone was an invader or occupier. You can't just conveniently pick a point in history and say it belonged to the British. I'm pretty sure if you go back long enough even Britain didn't belong to the British.

If you use that kind of logic, then Hitler's annexation of Austria was a noble act wasn't it? Pity the British weren't decent enough to support him in the noble cause. I mean you could at least have given it back to Germany after the war, even if you had differences with the man

No I am not agree with nick

I have seen 1% somewhere.

Anyway 14% in less than 76%.

I have no trouble with Jews being in Palestine.

But we British had no right to give half of Palestine to the Jews.

Once we British had liberated Palestine from the Ottoman Turks in WW1 we should have given it back to the people

who lived there to run. Palestinian Arabs, Jews or Christians, etc?

This was the worst thing the British Empire ever did.

with repercussions echoing down to today.

before I forget

only my own opinion of course

Spain was once ruled by the Muslims. Then someone else came along, suppressed them, burnt the arabic literature and so on. When eventually Muslims take control of Spain again, can we conveniently say it belonged to them, someone just took over their territory for a few hundred years and now they've taken it back?

Will the Ottoman Empire have another go or have they got their feet up?  crisp

A great Empire in their time. Occupied South East Europe once. They were halted at the gates of Vienna

by the Holy Roman Empire.

I do not think modern day Turkey will reach those heights again.

But they are industrious people I quite like them

UBLE/REGY 26 Nov 19 23:13 
before I forget


Its easy to remember what suits one's agenda.

Also occupied the Southern part of Russia for a long time.

We fought on the side of the Turks in the Crimean War, in defence of Sevastopol.

On rode the 600!!!

We all do that pumphol.

I stand by what I say, but you clearly disagree, fair enough

But we British had no right to give half of Palestine to the Jews.


We didn't. The UN did.



I have seen 1% somewhere.


Where did you read that?  Have you been seeking out at websites that confirm your own views?

Spain was once ruled by the Muslims. Then someone else came along, suppressed them, burnt the arabic literature and so on. When eventually Muslims take control of Spain again, can we conveniently say it belonged to them, someone just took over their territory for a few hundred years and now they've taken it back?

The Muslims conquered Spain they were eventually driven out in 1492...a while ago now.

The Jews left what was then Judea circa 300 AD. A 1,700 year gap, was too long a period for them to return.

The results has been appalling.

I understand the Jews desire for their own country.

Spain was once ruled by the Muslims. Then someone else came along, suppressed them, burnt the arabic literature and so on. When eventually Muslims take control of Spain again, can we conveniently say it belonged to them, someone just took over their territory for a few hundred years and now they've taken it back?

The Muslims conquered Spain they were eventually driven out in 1492...a while ago now.

The Jews left what was then Judea circa 300 AD. A 1,700 year gap, was too long a period for them to return.

The results has been appalling.

I understand the Jews desire for their own country.

But we British had no right to give half of Palestine to the Jews.

We didn't. The UN did.

yes but we signed Balfour, we were the instigators

the just UN went along with it

the UN just went along with it

My views were learnt from studying TE Lawrence(of Arabia)

when I was at school.

He considered we had betrayed all the Arabs, but the Palestinians most of all.

The Arabs were promised independence if they fought with the British in WW 1 against the Ottoman Turks.

We LIED.

But we British had no right to give half of Palestine to the Jews.


I don't think that's correct, ebul.

The bulk of the land under British jurisdiction (British Mandate for Palestine) was to the East of the Jordan and that became what we now know as the state of Jordan. The bulk of the land therefore went to the Arabs.

the UN just went along with it



Have you read the Balfour Declaration?  After WW2, Britain was blocking Jewish immigration to Palestine in order to keep the Arabs happy.

Britain then passed the issue to the UN who came up with a proposal to divide the territory.  This proposal was then voted on by member states.

UBLE/REGY 26 Nov 19 23:35 
My views were learnt from studying TE Lawrence(of Arabia)


T E Lawrence said

"Speaking entirely as a non-Jew, I look on the Jews as the natural importers of Western leaven so necessary for countries of the Near East.”


" your views "  as I have said before its so easy to conveniently forget and not wanting to learn what you do not believe in.

When you have a land which has a percentage of Muslims and a percentage of Jews then the best possible solution is to divide the land
And let Jews live in their land and Muslims in theirs
I can assure you that was the best solution , and the only possible solution

By the way it is the case elsewhere in the world also that countries are divided
Pakistan , India ,  Yukoslavia , Czech Rep Slovakia , West Germany East Gernany  , North South Korea Ireland north south , England Wales Scotland etc etc

That’s life

Ideally I would like to see the holy lands convert to Christendom .

My thanks for all those who corrected me

But I still do not think Israel should exist

The Jews who have immigrated to Israel are not the same Jews who left Judea all those years ago

They are Europeans, stuck in the middle of a Arab/Muslim land....where they have no right to be

The cost in blood has been a Human tragedy

There are many millions of Arabs/Muslims stuck in the middle of European lands, I think that will end very badly also..

We have to deal with the reality of the situation as it exists today.

Imo, that means a two-state solution.  My understanding is that previous Palestinian leaderships have supported this but failed to reach agreement.

As we know, Hamas do not and would not recognise Israel at all.

It has always amused me how people think they have to do something for the region. 'We' do not have to settle it for them. I know many will say we have a duty, this strange duty to spread goodness around that politicians use every time to send more of our sheep to war. But life standard in Europe is going down the drain very quickly and its Europe that needs repairing, not a middle eastern country.

The truth is that there is no business like the weapons business. And whoever gets powerful enough will want to take control of it. Some region in the world will always be at war. Not long ago Europe was killing millions of its own. Then communism needed eradication. Then everyone turned to middle east and soon it will be the countries south of china that will be the battle ground for the Americans to keep china busy. A few wars in Africa won't be bad for business either, especially considering China's aggressive control of the continent.

It’s a good thing that Jewish people have become ‘ europeanised ‘
We need more of that in the Middle East not less

Bring em all on.

Still think `our lads' are the best in the world and the SAS incomparable.

They all need a strong email telling them about the `geneva convention' though.

We cant have hundreds of years of `our lads' being the worlds best tarnished by a handful of inbeciles who go a bit too far with
prisoners.

A few wars in Africa won't be bad for business either, especially considering China's aggressive control of the continent.

I can see the irony in China building the infrastructure up for the Americans to knock it down!

There are many millions of Arabs/Muslims stuck in the middle of European lands, I think that will end very badly also..
saddo

I think that is our own fault.

I think overall it would have been better if Arabs stuck to the Middle East and Europeans stuck to Europe.

There is a difference in our cultures.

Well I never, the Chief Rabbi is a life long Tory and a devout Zionist.

I think overall it would have been better if Arabs stuck to the Middle East and Europeans stuck to Europe.


Well yes but they didn't! and they still don't wtf are Americans doing in the Middle East?

Shut up!

It is rhetorical!

They are fceking it up for the rest of us!

I want potatoes not sand!

Rhetorical or not it is the cause of the problem

If we do not deal with the cause, how can we expect to solve the problem

I asked this yesterday as well but no one answered. Why are 'We' trying to solve the problem? Any answer other than the 'We have a duty' crap?

It is difficult...because now Israel has been created it cannot be uncreated

I would like to see better treatment and aid given to the Palestinians(not military aid)

and for Israel to stop stealing parts of Palestine more than they have already stolen...ie West bank

and no more invasions of the Middle East by the West in support of Israel

although I have no objection to US Special Forces finishing off ISIS.

It is nearly an impossible task I accept....but we must try

Do not try to change or influence the Arab or Islamic way of life in their own countries

We can the rules in our own countries but not in their countries

We need a bit of PEACE here...we really do

Rhetorical or not it is the cause of the problem

If we do not deal with the cause, how can we expect to solve the problem

Just for the record what is the problem?

UBLE/REGY 28 Nov 19 13:02

and no more invasions of the Middle East by the West in support of Israel



Can I have some links please connecting Israel to the two Iraq wars

I have no links pumphol

It is my own opinion and seems very obvious to me

Unless the weapons of mass destruction have finally been found

I do not expect you to agree pumphol

The first Gulf War had nothing to do with WMD.

I don't think it had a lot to do with Kuwait either

The excessive slaughter of Iraqi soldiers even when they were pulling back to Iraq was a war crime in my opinion

Was the Kuwait war not the one where they had the girl fake tears at a UN conference?

I think you’re forgetting that Israel is a nuclear power
Now it’s like this , don’t attack or threaten the existence of Israel
They have the ultimate answer to any country that attempts that
As long as people understand that all will be well

By the way , if Iraq can attack another country ( Muslim )
So can Israel , and I don’t want to hear the likes of ebul or anyone else of that type complaining

Unfortunately you are going to read it, if you read this forum lfc1971

It is called FREE SPEECH

You are not obliged to agree lfc1971

Nobody knows if Israel has Nuclear weapons although it has a Nuclear Power station capable of producing one

You can block me lfc1971

Lol , I didn’t say you couldn’t complain ebul I just said I didn’t want to hear it
It’s subtle

Between 80 and 400 warheads
Oppenheimer decided how a piece of Hindu scripture from the Bhagavad - Gita ran through his mind as he witnessed the first detonation of a nuclear bomb ‘ Now i am become Death, the destroyer of worlds ‘

subtle lfc1971

I did not know you did subtle

that makes it ok then