The Joker -Film

You don't need a blade wielding psycho to make a convincing villain**

If you liked this film you should check out Phoenix in 'You Were Never Really Here', it is equally as dark, plays a mentally damaged hit man, saves a young girl from a brothel, his choice of weapon is a hammer........................................................

The best characters that are the villains are the one's who are mentally deranged and who have a back story, like how and where did they become this piece of work

You'll find it starts at childhood, that's where the sociopath is born

The best ones are plausible. I reckon that's what makes this film so good. He's turned it from a camp cartoon character (Ledger's Joker was great top, though I thought Leto was awful) into a real person who could have lived a peaceful life if the system served him and other people didn't push him.

Pretty impressive when a film leaves you feeling some sense of empathy with a mass murderer.

[b]Torquemada

"I’ll be having a tenner on Phoenix to win a Best Actor Oscar if there’s a market."

Deserves to get an Oscar, really powerful performance, also Oscar for Best Film, Best Director. But open question if they might swerve this one with all the controversy around it, fears of possible gun violence, mental illness, too dark. Not sure if that might affect it's chances (?)

Although Heath Ledger did win posthumously for his role as the Joker in The Dark Knight.

Heath Ledger was excellent

I also agree with the line "threaten to blow up a truck full soldiers no body panics, because its all part of the plan... but threaten one little old mayor and everyone loses their minds"

I'm going to try and see this film next week, I like the chit chatterer collective reviews but it's not a film I would see normally but I'll try and make the effort when I get a chance in Brixton or West Norwood picture houses.

It’s nothing like a normal comic book film, Slippy. No superheroes as such and far too dark and depressing for my personal liking. All that said, it is an excellent movie and would deserve the awards.

I also think the controversy is justified. I could quite see some loony copycat or group of them going berserk after watching it.

heard there is far leftist propaganda in this film too

Don't know how it was only given an age rating certificate of 15, there is one extremely violent part, the door-lock scene. Then the midget who witnessed it can't reach the door-lock to get out, "'Hey Arthur, can you get the door for me."

Yeah I must admit I thought the midget was getting it.

Did he take pity on the midget?

It remind me of the movie falling down, where he goes off on one and the point of no return is when the gangsters demand his briefcase and wont let him leave, you can see in his eyes right there that was his breaking point

All it would have taken is for someone to be nice to him and it might have brought him back, but the circumstances dictated the rampage. It only takes one bad day for a "loner" to go nuts is totally true, once they've snapped there's no coming back.

Don't want to put in any spoilers for anybody who hasn't seen it yet, but after that door-lock scene the Joker goes into complete meltdown, and that is a key scene to the backing track of the Gary Glitter song. A song not played anymore on radio or TV, and also his appearance in the Spice Girls’ film Spice World was cut.

The song doesn't speak or encourage what Glitter done. He is in jail, so there's not much he can do with the money ! And when he gets out he'll be a very old man. And if people have a problem, what about Jackson, what about Spacey ?! People are trying to make this film so much more controversial.

I loved every part of the film it was an excellent character portrait and very strong, I really loved the themes of chaos, and would certainly watch it again.

I'm sure they could have picked a different song to the Glitter one. God knows there's enough glam, camp, stompy stuff around from the 70's to choose from.

However, it was a brilliant, brilliant scene and the music fitted perfectly. It was his real snap from reality and embracing the psychopath that he would become in the comics and Batman films

This is the scene pp brilliant. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW-OLcZ4tGY

Sorry that is just a trailer but still worth seeing.

Don't want to put in any spoilers for anybody who hasn't seen it yet, but after that door-lock scene the Joker goes into complete meltdown

It was his real snap from reality and embracing the psychopath

This was my point regarding the Michael Douglas character in falling down. Loners will eventually have that "point of no return" moment, where they finally let the guard down, shackles are off and the psychopath is released so to speak. Once a man loses his the last bit of sanity they can become extremely dangerous

We keep hearing this "it will incite copycat attacks", sorry but that's been happening for years now just look at the shootings, and these individuals are pretty clueless, there's a lot of angry blokes out there that are actually very clued up but the blocker is still there, once that goes it gets interesting

I think the film is hinting or warning people of these types of individuals and not trying to incite violence, people will ultimately side with the state anyway. If people have it planted in their nut what these people could become (they could be your brother etc) then they'll know the signs and ultimately report them or "help" them.

Falling Down was and still is brilliant, mainstream Hollywood would never dare make that now. Michael Douglas made it happen at the time

Comparisons with Falling Down pretty accurate I reckon.

The whole "media industry incites copycat attacks" line is only ever bull perpetuated by politicians who strip out social and health care to the bare bones and then look to deflect the blame on to others when the inevitable happens. Twas ever thus.

The arts reflect humanity in all its beauty and horror. Long may they continue to do so.

It’s too violent , films and video games are causing great damage to people and society

Would agree 100% with this review, and on a 5 Star rating I'd give it 5+, wife was not so overwhelmed and gave it a 3, she thought it was a bit slow, too dark and depressing.

-"Not an action or “Batman” movie
- Not intended to dazzle you with scripted punchlines
- Very dark portrayal of slow descent of a man into insanity
- Deep character study drama."

SontaranStratagem

" Once a man loses his the last bit of sanity they can become extremely dangerous "

Exactly, and Phoenix does an incredible job showing the progression towards that.

From the trailer I get the impression the joker wants to be accepted, wants to love (not just be loved) hence the imagining him passionately kissing his neighbour, wants a friend etc

There's warning signs there and he actually (from the trailer) tries to warn what is happening to him when talking to his psychologist? He wants that one bit of acceptance to stop him falling into insanity, once there and once that first bit of nasty behaviour is "achieved" there's no going back.

Pheonix has always been an underrated actor

That really is a great piece of music as well.....In fact it was one of the first records I ever bought.

I'm off to Brixton Ritzy right now to see i, I'll report back when I get home.

Hugh GRANT complaining the noise levels are too
HIGH

don't take yer hearing AID
then

Not a typical blockbuster and not fun to watch, but so brilliant. Phoenix's performance was so raw and painful. It's a really good film but it's his performance that makes it brilliant.

I've just got back home, well what can I say about 'Joker'? Talk about the 'Emperors new clothes'.

Although I will say that Joaquin Phoenix was very good in his role and quite an absorbing character quite frankly, him aside, I was bored completely senseless and nearly fell asleep at one stage. Would I ever see this film again? No, not if you paid me. Would I recommend 'Joker' to anyone, I would most certainly not. What a disappointment as I was quite looking forward to it as well.

I'll score it 3/10 at a push and that is me being quite generous.

People are fixated on the character himself rather than the movie

Its the character of Arthur Fleck that intrigues people more than the actual movie, which does sound rather boring if you take that discussion point out of it

I wouldn't expect them to stick Pheonixs version of the joker into a battle with Batman either, his version is what he was before he came the embodiment of evil/chaos

Someone on another forum was questioning whether Arthur Fleck becoming the joker we see in say Heath Ledgers movie, well no not on first glance, he's a broken pitiful man, but insanity can take many forms, if he "embraces" his psychopathic nature and you see a totally different man.

We see it in real life, the bloke who did the New Zealand shooting was quite timid by accounts of his neighbours, but he went out and killed a whole mosque full of people.

couldnt agree more Slippy,only diference is i did fall asleep

It certainly divides opinions.

After reading all the reviews my take is like a restaurant review
I go for a grand dinner at a 3 start Michelin place
After spending £150 the mains is bloody fantastic, but the rest is
KRAP

Therefore to quote some bloke on tv
Im
OUT

PorcupineorPineapple

"Comparisons with Falling Down pretty accurate I reckon"

Yeah, Falling Down, Taxi Driver, ....with a dash of Clockwork Orange.

Falling Down is a lot better movie overall

Going to see it this week ... lets hope its better than Birdman

Falling Down is a brilliant rewatch, so many great scenes, and mean as much now as back in 1993

for all those eulogising over Phoenix's performance; you should watch him in You Were Never Really Here A far better performance from the residing nutjob portrayer. His performance as Commodus in Gladiator (another meglomaniacal nutjob) was better than this Joker role

all my own opinions of course

I've always rated his performance as commodus, I wanted Maximus to butcher him in the final fight, that's how convincing of a sociopath he was in that movie. A spiteful vindictive little bas*ard, and cunning to boot with it

Falling Down was a far superior movie. barring the whole discussion that his Joker character creates there's not a whole lot more to it, its very thin on the ground. That's pretty much what it wanted though, societal discussion rather than actually being a classic.

"mental health discussion" what's his soul aim, and it achieved what it set out to do. I highly doubt we'll be seeing Phoenix version of the Joker going up against the Batman.

Was its soul aim*

85 cents 85 cents!!!

85 cents for a cola?!!?

Have watched this film for a second time now and am happy to confirm it is indeed a bit of a 'Masterpiece' Best film of the year by a country mile, even the use of Rock and Roll Part 2 is a bit of genius, and it's now confirmed that Glitter won't get any royalties from it, as he sold his wrights away a decade or so ago, so it's all good

We all know it is a masterpiece. Just need the few that dont get it to watch again.

Agreed !!

Slippy is a good judge of a Movie I cant understand why he did not like it.

you're going to need a bigger bribe than the DUP have been offered to get me to say i like it. I abhor it!

Oct 18, 2019 -- 4:53PM, Baphornet wrote:

you're going to need a bigger bribe than the DUP have been offered to get me to say i like it. I abhor it!

Melting as he speaks....

I will re-iterate. Very good film.

It's a hard watch and a pretty uncomfortable film, but it is so gripping. From a creative standpoint, it was truly brilliant. Although definitely not a film for everyone.

Oct 18, 2019 -- 4:30PM, acey deucy wrote:

Slippy is a good judge of a Movie I cant understand why he did not like it.

I'm going to give it another chance acey, I was a little bit cream crackered when I saw it and probably wasn't really paying attention some of the time. The missus absolutely loved it and she gave it 9/10. I'll concentrate on it next time a bit more thoroughly.

you do that SlippyBlue & i fully expect a 2/10 next time

"this joker didn't have ambitions to rule Gotham" From another forum

Neither did Ledgers though? I thought the whole premise of Ledgers joker was just his lust for violence and wanting "the world to burn", plus wanting to show Gotham that batman was corruptible and show batman that Gotham didn't appreciate him. "they'll cast you out like a leper". He was more concerned about showing the corruptible side of humans.

Jack Nicholsons joker is still the best for me personally. He was a lovable psycho. "you wouldn't hit a man with glasses on would ya?"

I watched it last night to see what all the fuss was about and loved it! Dark, intense, clever, powerful and thought provoking topped off with an amazing performance by Joaquin Phoenix - no point in doing a book for the next best actor award category at the Oscars.

I can see why it's not everybody's cup of tea: it's a bit slow at the start and very dark, if you were hoping to watch a Batman flick with lots of "kapow" and "bam" you're going to leave gutted. It's brilliantly done though and the use of music throughout the film worked brilliantly. 8.5/10 for me.

Well hes 1-2

I suspect some Ethinic actor will nab him in the
end

He wont win an Oscar

They don't give their awards out to films like that, one's that push a societal message

And he's white, the character was white

He's got no chance

I should say one's that push a real societal message.

They give them out for films that push a false narrative like Blacks have been in England since the dawn of time

Re-writing history

Rami Malek won The Oscar last Year and Joaquin Phoenix kicks him out the park ffs.....Best 1-2 shot you will ever back in your life.

But its not a vote from the movie goers, acey

Its hollywood that give out the votes and they will not vote for that movie or Joaquin Phoenix, although Phoenix should p*** it on that tai chi dance in the toilet alone

That was pretty great acting just that scene.

"The dying in the fading of the light, out comes a new man"

That scene actually gave me goosebumps

Yes you are probably right S.S.....I mean that bunch of clowns gave the best picture Oscar to The Shape Of Water ffs.

Brillant FILM

I honestly think they wont vote for it based of the fact it gives credence to the white man being downtrodden

And that's not what MSMs stance is with regards to the white man, we should "check our privilege"

Oct 24, 2019 -- 8:24AM, SontaranStratagem wrote:

I honestly think they wont vote for it based of the fact it gives credence to the white man being downtrodden And that's not what MSMs stance is with regards to the white man, we should "check our privilege"

Ask that white racist Jo Swinson

I actually found the movie quite boring, but the performance from Phoenix in his portrayal of slowly embracing his psychotic nature was by far the best performance of the year

Falling Down will always be my number 1 movie in that genre though, nothing will beat Michael Douglas portrayal in that type of portrayal. His character seemed more noble in some ways and seemed more realistic.

Jo Swinson is just an idiot

"What do you get when you cross a mentally-ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?"

"I'll tell you what you get - YOU GET WHAT YOU ****G DESERVE!"

Having watched the movie

I'm sorry but its just a pile of new age political messaging that above scene before shooting the host says it all.

Would a man who's lost the plot actually say that before shooting someone? It seemed like that was the producer portraying a message, not the joker himself

Also this character wallows in self pity, which strikes me as a volatile and violent individual rather than a cunning, manipulative but intelligent one. Like Jack and Heaths joker

Also that scene where he shoots the host he came across more fed up than anything, plus he was very camp and snotty

Massive disappointment really. But I should have known it was displaying a message

Having just finished it




The whole thing was in his head?

His mum was in the nut house for having delusions during the movie

It was all make belief, the ending kinda gives it away - "you wouldn't get it" -

There's people actually finding solice in this movie, and the whole thing was just a "joke"r

"all I have are negative thoughts"

He's on psychotic drugs and talks to a shrink ffs

The clues are there throughout the movie, and the ending totally gives you the answer at the end

Saw it last night - just brilliant from start to finish 10/10

Missed out on best film for the Globes
The winner is 1917

I wont win hardly anything at those awards, its the woke awards

It*

it's still shîte

Watched on Kodi.. (spot on)

Fabulous movie... 9. at least.

Its boring

Phoenix deserves the best acting role for it but the movie itself is nothing to write home about. Falling Down told a better story of a man finally breaking but done in a more realistic way and in a more realistic environment. When a loner breaks he's going it alone because no one is joining in with it, esp not inciting an uprise lets be realistic here. No one is going to follow a "weird loner" over the edge.

He played it well but the setting and uprise he ultimately caused is totally far fetched

Got this on my watchlist, but will wait for the price to drop before having a look. Agree with 'Falling Down' SS, a thoroughly enjoyable movie.

It was set in Gotham city....

Dont really think it's supposed to be totally believable.. More low fantasy-ish, hence his ability to walk away from all his crimes.

Reminded me of Taxi Driver, in it's darkness.

Joaquin Phoenix
Somebody compared his masterful performance with last years Oscar winner, Absolutely Laughable... Different Gravy.   1.01 Oscar Winner

Emitdeb

I don't disagree on Phoenix, he's a brilliant and most underrated and underused actor in "Hollywood", his performances in Walk The Line, Gladiator and Signs were massively underrated at the time and he's now finally getting the recognition he deserves.

But the movie itself is to far fetched for my liking, a loner like Arthur Fleck would never be able to achieve what he set out to do, to mentally broken and depressed, he didn't strike me as someone who could organise anything. But maybe once the snapping occurs they finally realise and achieve their potential? maybe its the constraints of society/system and being mentally chained to it that stops a man from realising his potential who knows.

I didn't get that vibe from him early on in the movie though sadly, he was pretty low IQ and flat, the signs need to be there like in Falling Down.

Outsider for best picture
Landslide for best actor

Very strange

Great film, watched it 3 times already. Phoenix should win an Oscar for his excellent performance but I do think his performance in Walk The Line was even better and he didn't win an Oscar then. So, what do I know?

Falling Down superb and would never be allowed mainstream now, Michael Douglas made that film happen back then, good man.

Great movie, all about the brilliant lead

Wins BAFTA for best actor
Then says we should all go vegan
T O S S E R

No he's not one of us shocker

He's part of the agenda driven brigade

Excellent actor but you can't trust these people

Great Actor but lets face it most of them are fooked up in the head that is what Celebrity does imho.

When a loner breaks he's going it alone because no one is joining in with it, esp not inciting an uprise lets be realistic here. No one is going to follow a "weird loner" over the edge.

It wasn't about Arthur influencing others, it was a study of society as a whole verging on decay through each individual, the rising violence on the streets and the growing disaffection between have and have nots etc which becomes its own movement like a revolution using a focal point (the clown, the anonymity)

The film was ok.
My major issue was that for true convergence it's Arthur who kills batman's parents, not somebody randomly.

I get where you're coming from dusty

But its as you alluded to which is a movement as a whole. will need to change that comment you highlighted, to one man can start a riot but he wont start an uprise, the riot will fizzle out once reality kicks in

Men have to buy into it otherwise it just ends up being a every man for himself and whatever he can take at that moment, its a reason to just kick off and that will always fizzle out once the cops have batted the s*** out of you for a couple of days. Every man for himself will not suffice, every man needs to be as one with the message for it to work.

We saw with the london riots in 2011, most only turned up because it was just a reason to loot and be merry

The message was lost the moment a load of scally wags hijacked that movement for their own gains.

This is the reason the media proper jumped on the whole riots themselves and buried the message that ultimately started it

People need a common purpose and a banner to get behind, that's why ALL supposed uprisings fail, the media jump on the riots narrative and bury the reason that started them

Any organic uprise they will desperately try to bury the grievances of the people behind it, only focussing on the smashed up buildings, the looted supermarkets etc, because free stuff will attract the individuals who care not a jot about anything but themselves

When a loner breaks he's going it alone because no one is joining in with it, esp not inciting an uprise lets be realistic here. No one is going to follow a "weird loner" over the edge.

That was my main problem with it.
He was a complete loser and loner. No way that people would follow him. He had zero leadership qualities and a very annoying personality, unlike other Jokers in the Batman comics/films

Surprised nobody noticed his name is a dig at the last batman
Arthur Fleck, A.Fleck, Ben Affleck

I think they were following the symbolism more than the man himself

But he didn't strike me as the kind of bloke that could do what he did late in the film, he was to broken of an individual with dad issues

But the point stands, once they meet the man behind the mask he's not so inviting

Good film. Not sure how anyone under or over 21 can describe a Batman adaption as being "unrealistic" though.

He won best actor which is the least he deserved

Best musical score is an odd one though as I thought there was nothing to write home about

I suppose he had to win it after his woke speech though

Its usually the way, only anything with a woke element to it gets to win anything

The movies fans will be happy though and yet have no idea the joke is on them

anyone could have played the joker and won a oscar theres a 100 just as good as he who won a oscar

^ "anyone could have played the joker and won a oscar"

The success of that film owes a great deal to Joaquin Phoenix's performance.

lol

phoenix was always getting Oscar and deserved , joker and The Master put him among the greats

I agree with hello.

I agree with acey deucy