Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution with Berlinski, Meyer, and Gelernter

I found this fascinating with three anti-Darwinists who argue their points eloquently.

Nutters !

Maybe be well-argued eloquent nutters. I wouldn't like to take them on and disprove what they're saying.

but no be

I give up on that sentence.

I'm enjoying this thanks.

You're very welcome.

His cup of tea....he means !

Will be watching it in sections the first 22 odd minutes was eye opening regarding the number of potential possible combos for the cell mutations creating living organisms highlighting how simplistic Darwin's theory was though not by his own fault but the limited knowledge of the times.

They were very intelligent.

The basis of their argument is that life could not have developed through a random sequencing of genes

which gave rise to advantages in a species, so that they gradually changed into other species. Although it accounts for small changes

within a species, longer beak, etc.

I think??


They are arguing for intelligent design. Something was ordering the sequencing. It was not random as Darwin proposed.

Which brings us back to GOD. They are arguing against the creation of new species by chance, because the environment favoured them.


They are using science to prove this...I don't know if the biological sciences in general are moving in this direction

Good summary and I'll have to watch it again a few times.

Congratulations today Charlie. An exceptional performance.

Thank you.

I agree with that.

They are not disrespecting Darwin at all. For his time Darwin did well, they all agree on that.

But we know more know.

They are saying species cannot randomly develop form other species, it would never survive the change.

So they are proposing intelligent design of some sort, directing the changes needed.

I really don't want to believe what they are saying but can't argue against them right now.

I have a few ideas but wouldn't want to commit to them until I've watched the video a few times or read the book.

The wealthy US creationist lobby love Berlinski's work - he hit their nail on the head.

Most of us don't know enough to either agree with or contradict them....as we are not experts in their field

Darwin was definitely a step forward from the Bible that is for sure...

Whether he had it all right or not, I don't really know

Having looked at a few more videos by the Hoover Institution not so sure about how balanced they are. Still looking.

hmmmm???

It was interesting anyway

I think I'm out of my depth with their videos. I'll try again though.

not the only one Charlie

However

If we say  evolution is directed by Intelligent Design

The next question would be....what is the purpose of this intelligent Design?


If there is no Intelligent Design

We just have a set of evolutionary rules working on a starting point

Also we have no idea as yet as, to how life started


It is tricky

To really understand this one needs to be going to University and studying evolution

These guys are focussing on a statistical glitch

They are saying that the chance of say a new type cell evolving from an existing type of cell, needs to get an awful lot right first

time.

Amino acids amongst other things, if you don't get this right, no new type of cell will be produced.

They are saying th odds  for this to happen randomley are too high  there has to be some intelligent direction.


I am sure there are other answers to this tbh, not that we know what they aree????????

I found it entertaining.

Like these programmes about 'chance' and the relarively unknown like how the Universe came to exist fascinating stuff.

evolution as moved on since Darwin...…..evolution is fact and those 3 people are nutjobs

How can evolution have moved on it's evolving as it's always done.

denzil………..Darwin got things wrong...………..schools DONT teach Darwinism...……..they just teach evolution

My school didn't teach anything beyond Catholic religion and my pals got taught Creationism and former partner evolution,their will without doubt parts of Darwins theories that cross over with the teaching of Evolution what they are for sure I couldn't say without looking but I'd have everything I own on Natural selection featuring heavily.

denzil……..surprised you went to school

denzil…………….you should read the bible...…..start at exodus 20...………..I can say with certainty  you will love it

Movement of Jah People

portman is the forum Christianaphobe as evidenced on the Boxing Forum and now this thread,hate is not good pp even socially acceptable hate such as this.

sorry denzil………….exodus 21

You can go to jail for such a rhetoric portman there might be a Christian lurking who decides to invest a few bob on a legal battle some have the means and motive to do so,you never know who's watching.

I thought you said it was the other lot you weren't aloud to have a pop at.

denzil religion is nonsense...…..hope this helps

I treat all equally just because others don't is neither here nor there that's why I'm big on justice for the grooming gang victims and against the establishment protectors who arrest naked drunk girls instead of bunches of grown men who rape them because of their protected religion.
Same goes for all the Catholic rapists and establishment rapist paedos in Children's homes.Didn't have to say that it should be obvious from my posts.
portman thanks for the input that rattling noise you keep hearing isn't just a lack of Cerebrospinal fluid.

I treat all equally...……..laughing so much I couldn't read the rest of it

Aug 1, 2019 -- 10:09PM, portmanpark wrote:

I treat all equally...……..laughing so much I couldn't read the rest of it

That's easy to believe,if I were you I wouldn't read my replies to you either.

There's not much evidence you have yet anyway

crushing reply denzil

You wouldn't get it though you've noticed I'm quite polite when showing you up and don't need to be otherwise which is clearly more than enough,obviously you didn't understand the put downs.

denzil…………..don't really like talking to bigoted people...…people who think slavery was really  good for the slave …..so I will say good night

portman you are a liar I have a proposal again like the last ones that you couldn't answer.

You obviously don't know what bigot means YOU ARE THE MOST OPEN BIGOT ON THIS FORUM anyone would think it was you who didn't go to school and not me as you said earlier.

Show a post where I say 'slavery was good for the slave'
If you can do this I will leave the forum immediately.

I can show many posts where you blatantly tell lies to goad me into getting banned and also have posted religious hate openly.

If I can post 5 lies/religious hatred posts from you will you leave the forum immediately are you up for the challenge?

I think we both know the answers

portman you have to be someone's alias pretending to be thick this is far too easy to be a genuine person

Whoever it is can pm me to own up I won't spill the beans.

If evolution does include some intelligent design, I would not be going back to Religion myself

I would looking for some superior species of Alien who have set this all up..they have created life and evolution


For what purpose I have no idea....or even if it is working as intended..., reading some of the posts on this forum

Haven't finished the programme yet only watched 22 minutes but was thinking intelligent design as in the intelligence of the cell nuclei to create a living organism that can thrive in an environment.

" One of Berlinski’s most celebrated anti-evolution arguments is his calculation that at least 50,000 changes were required to change a cow into a whale (he stopped counting). Of course, since even if he was capable of listing out these differences at an implausibly fast average rate of one every ten seconds, it would still take more than 5 days of non-stop 24h-hour activity to accomplish this, few believe that he actually did what he claimed to have done. Berlinski does not, of course, know anything about the evolution of whales, missing such rather central details as the fact that cows did not evolve into whales. "

Is it worth me finishing the programme sounds like there's more holes in this lot than the moon.

It is Denzil

They won't knock over Darwin as easily as they think

someone say a little prayer for the evolutionists , Charlie , ebul , portmanpark etc..
they’re too dumb to do so

This is the article by David Gelernter they were discussing in the video.
https://www.claremont.org/crb/article/giving-up-darwin/

consider the amazing and intricate nature of everything that exists and think , could all this just happen from nothing all by itself ?

This is a thread discussing Gelernter's article.
https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2019/05/David-Gelernter-gives-up-on-Darwin.html

makes a lot of sense , but no answers

The point is consciousness can not arise from matter , it’s impossible

someone say a little prayer for the evolutionists , Charlie , ebul , portmanpark etc..
they’re too dumb to do so lfc1971

It is still the best theory we have.

It may not be the final answer.

But I think we need to move forward not backward to creationism.

We are dealing with vast periods of time, there is not a lot left to go on is there.

That is not to say that evolution is wrong . It is a fact that life forms on earth today we’re not represented in the past . There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago . And dinosaurs are no longer living . There used to be but there are non now , there were no birds but there are now .  It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms
Therefore all present forms of life come from ancestral forms of life that were different
Birds from non birds , humans from non humans

ffs lfc is a creationist - just when you thought he couldn't be more vacuous.

some apes evolve and some don’t

I’m beginning to think evolution might be wishful thinking

lfc1971...………..move to America...…………...you will fit in well

evolution by natural selection is fact...change in gene frequency over time...…………...if you have evidence that will overturn evolution write a paper...…………..you will become famous.....learn Swedish you will get a nobel prize

lfc1971...………..move to America...…………...you will fit in well portmanpark

People get shot in America, is that wise

Of course we might just be an experiment by the "gods" (who might just be a super-race). Humans do that sort of thing all the time, kick off a starting scenario and see how it plays out.

Maybe life WAS started with a basic cell/lifeform starting situation, then Evolution has played out since.

Maybe I shouldn't even be typing this as hitting the truth might break the matrix, they might not like it that I'm onto them.

Well we have computer simulations ourselves just checking

Are we ourselves just a very sophisticated Computer Simulation

you may have a point just checking

I hope we hear from you again

A reminder that `sinister, evil` is from the Latin for `left`; no surprise then that satan`s little helpers deny God. We know they feign superiority over all good and right thinking people, but that their arrogance sees them placing themselves above their Maker reaffirms their risibility, exposing the horrific depths of their evil creed

WEll it doesn't have to a be computer simulation UBLE. It might be the Vogons got bored and instead of zapping planets, created a real one, seeded it with life, then left it for a few million years to see what happened. The fjords around Norway give it away imho.

Slartibartfast ..he designed them just checking


I remember that from "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

I loved it both on radio and TV

Brexit will be just fine if we drink some lager beforehand and have a towel.