Detraveller having SOME guys acting a bit incompetent doesn't mean they are all bad? It's not institutionalised. Your story reminds me of the incident a year or two ago, where a drunk guy, totally being nice, in the US, (who was totally innocent) was over an extended period by an idiot cop given lots of stupid commmands and then shot dead for not complying properly. It was on video and talked about on here. (As I recall forum troll Crippen was all behind the cop I think..). Anyway the obvious thing to do was to just have one cop cover the decent non violent compliant person and lie him down or put him over something, hand outstretched and visible, and another pat him down and search him, can be done in 60 seconds..

8 armed men on 2 with 45 minutes of whatever of aiming at you is insane, it damages you and it damages them. Either very poor training or trained in a very poor procedure.

I fully agree that a few bad cops doesn't mean the whole police is bad. But I can't assume that a cop is good the next time I see one. And I know now they won't assume I am innocent either(something we all take for granted - i've done nothing wrong so why should I be worried? etc.). Its just that I won't be able to respect a cop again in my life. Maybe it will change in the future.

detraveller, I certainly would not assume that a police officer I met was a "good one". most of them are corrupt. we used to have a quite useful police force, they are now the para-military wing of government. the oath of "protect and serve" no longer applies. they are the most dangerous and protected group of people in our country. they don't investigate crime any more. they just pick on easy targets to exert their power on. police will tell you anything to get what information they want even if what they say is illegal under common law, other officers will stand by and know this but do or say nothing. 142 deaths in police custody in the last four years, in custody means under the care and protection of the police, not a single police officer successfully prosecuted. they are above the law.knowing your rights and standing up for them might not avoid the outcome the police want but you will be doing the right thing. you could always ask if you can visit the "crying room" being set up in police stations.

knowledge and experience Charlie.

now you sound like the police Charlie, asking questions I have no obligation to answer. when it comes to the police honesty is not the best policy, silence is.

It's pointless posting if you can't substantiate what you say. If it's your opinion then so be it but don't try to pass the things you say off as true.

that's your opinion Charlie, you have the right to express it, long may it be so.

ta Reynard,  Reynard the fox, one of my favourite poems.

Serpico. Read the book and I doubt that you would say that the Police wasn`t institutionalised.

Yes.

yes, missed that mightymac and I have one of their albums hidden away somewhere. thanks for the link.