Sheffield Endcliffe park flypast

Emotional scenes

Mate just text, big crowd there.

Very emotional, looked a huge crowd, credit to Tony, and the USAF.

give tony an obe

Bloody plane woke me up about 8.45AM.     
It's amazing. I used to live more or less next door to Endcliffe Park and those woods were my 2nd home as a kid. I had vaguely noticed an odd depression in the ground but I had no idea what it was and nobody told me till I picked up a bit of the story in the mid-60s. Frankly it wasn't a big deal till much later. Quite a few houses round about had been hit by bombs and the whole terrace across the road from me was sliding down the hill as a result. Those stories were much bigger in the neighbourhood till some Americans got interested.

I couldnt see the planes as they were too low, but I heard and felt the fighters go over an it almost gave me a hard on for war


I got some absoletely fantastic facts about the blitz.

Not a single plane was ever shot down by the field guns
and
The reason Sheffield civilians were hit hard was because the Germans were trying to hit the huge hammer at Vickers which was the only one in the country that could forge the crank shafts of spitfires, and Hadfields that were the only factory to be able to make the armour piercing shells....but the reason the civilians got hit instead was because the Germans used radio signals to guide them and at the point they crossed that was the co ordinate of the drop....but the British bent the signal to avoid the targets and the bombs fell on civilians

We had over 80,000 properties bombed/damaged during the war.

I have to question Tony's version of events.
He said they circled....giving a warning to get off the grass.

Well from the air if they had time to circle they could have easily put it in a field.
They had just flown over the Peak District, was that not enough open space?

"I got some absoletely fantastic facts about the blitz."
Your definition of "facts" seems widely at odds with the normal interpretation of the word.

*wildly

why?

Firstly what do you mean by "field guns"? I didn't even know they tried to use field guns as such to shoot down aircraft. They had bespoke AA guns and artillery pieces that I'm sure could be used as AA but "Not a single plane was ever shot down by the field guns" is just a ridiculous thing to say, presuming you mean flak in general. It's impossible to say that, without even 1 second of research you can say its impossible to say that. How could you POSSIBLY take into consideration the 100000s of flak rounds fired in the dark and presume none brought a plane down, when planes came down? And after a couple minutes research we get like:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5c9lyr/in_ww2_how_often_did_aa_guns_actually_hit_their/

"Anti-aircraft fire wasn't terribly accurate. In The Bombing War: Europe 1939-1945 Richard Overy gives some figures for British defences during The Battle of Britain and The Blitz: over the whole night campaign from July 1940 - June 1941 a massive number of shells were fired (260,000 in September alone) in return for which 170 aircraft were claimed shot down and perhaps 118 damaged. Air Ministry estimates were that it took 6,000 shells for each claim in autumn 1940, improving to 3,195 in April 1941. New searchlights with radar detection, more guns and better organisation improved matters by spring 1942, reducing the shells per claim to 1,830, the lowest of the war."

THAT sounds totally plausible.

Secondly you can't "bend" radio signals. You can jam them but you certainly can't "bend" them, unless you maybe put a huge lens up in the sky somewhere between the planes and the transmitter.

There's always someone who wants to pi$$ on someone else's parade instead of enjoying the moment.

If that's directed at me I like facts. Well not the poster, but facts.

You seem to be grumpy these days mr fox. Antagonistic even. One step away from crying "Are you looking at me"!

Not you JC .... dusty

I'll try not to be so grumpy.

Yes. If only BITO was here we could all have a naked group hug, as long as you keep your furry fox paws off my HAIRY A**E! :P

. I take your point though, maybe I have been grumpy, I'm getting used to new stronger heart meds, no excuse, but a reason. To anyone I have offended I apologise.

The first point on 'field guns' was indeed intended to mean AA guns I forgot the term and, they were colloquially called 'Pom Pom guns' around here but I didnt put that as I thought 'field guns' was more appropriate but indeed AA guns they were.

The blitz historian Ron Fairfax is cited from a source named 'The Blitz' on Agency Video 1994 in a book called 'Sheffield, Armourer to the British Empire' by Stewart Dalton which claims there to be 'No evidence to show the defending guns seriously damaged a single German aircraft....' pp129

On page 127 of the same book, the facts and figs of the blitz in question are shown (which I dont have time to go through here...but states 'The blind bombing, radio beams were capable of being bent by electronic counter measures...'

Also in the fantastic book on Wandsworth estate by  Catherine Bailey, a thouroughly excellently researched book, states much the very same thing.

I suppose jamming might have caused the germans to be accurate over sheffield but that's what jamming is supposed to do. I certainly can't see anything online about it causing them as a sort of deliberate act to aim at civilians.  (I'm a bit of a sad ww2 anorak so .. :)) The germans worked out they were being jammed and stopped trying to use radio beams anyway. We had similar problem the other way, night bombing is notoriously inaccurate which is why we just did area bombing and hoped we'd hit somehing useful.

Anyway back to the OP it's all nice to see these people remembered. Now here's a little interesting fact:
The big 4 engine B17 with like 10 of a crew might have dropped say 4000lb into Europe, up to 8000 on a short mission.
A modern little jet like the Eurofighter, single engine, can carry (wiki)
"in excess of 9,000 kg (19,800 lb) of payload"
!!!!!
Amazing isn't it. That tiny little jet could carry TWO Dianne Abbots.

Well you can't bend radio beams as such, using an external "force" though you can use guides and lenses nearer the transmitter, they are like light.
You can interfere with them though, stop them being received, give a different fake signal or whatever.

I certainly can't see anything online about it causing them as a sort of deliberate act to aim at civilians

That has been suggested in this very book, though I didnt say that. By diverting or interfering with the signal they might not have intended to direct the bombing on civilians...just wanted to avoid the original target.

boxingthefox • February 22, 2019 3:26 PM GMT
There's always someone who wants to pi$$ on someone else's parade instead of enjoying the moment.

I wasnt p issing on any parade. Ive known that crash site all my life while all these coming out the woodwork now all of a sudden.
If you look how close Endcliffe park is to the Peak District on google maps, and listen to his testomony, they two dont collate given the direction the plane hit the hill.
If they had time to circle and take another attempt they would have flown over bigger fields than that in doing so

Sorry dusty,as I said above, I apologise, your posts show a great degree of knowledge, certainly more than mine on this subject.

JC thanks for pulling me up.

And the correct expression SHOULD have been:
"There's always someone who wants to pi$$ on someone else's flypast instead of enjoying the moment."

Very disappointing the way the thread has turned out.

Jolly good of the BBC to cross the pennines.

Don't give up Shane it's not finished, well done on pulling 2 back today.

Walking on Beeley Moor when 3 flew directly overhead 8:40 ish.

Cheers fox, I feel 5/8 points profit per week are achievable with the method. I`m working on an AW laying system too, gawd help me

5/8 would be fantastic, good luck.