as bad as may's deal is i have to support it, its either that or no deal. it is after all only for the transitional period, the real negotiations are yet to come.

Not always.

I would have liked to invoke Article 50 immediately after the Referendum result was declared, told Civil Service twonks to prepare for a trade exit on WTO terms (giving industry the - or 'a' - certainty they required), unilaterally guarranteed EU citizens rights in this country and defied the EU not to give reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens in Europe.

I would have actually offered citizenship to any EU passport holder that wanted to remain, had no criminal record and who had paid tax here for 5 years.

I would have told remainers that this was going to hurt in the short-term. That their project was over but the ideals of freedom, equality of opportunity, toleration and civility would not only live on but be strengthened. If they didn't like that and believed that 'winning' was more impartant then tough - and they were free to relocate to the EU.

I would not have accepted any risible notion of there being a 'Divorce Bill' to pay. It is a membership fee we have been paying and paying well since we joined The Common Market and that we would not be paying it anymore other than to honour our commitments to existing projects and pensions of British employees of the EU)

I would have outlined all the legislation that would now be possible outside the EU - from Nationalisation of the Railways (if that floats your boat), to export arrangements of live cattle to introduction of the Tampon Tax.

I would have used my speech at Davos to re-iterate that Britain is opn for business, that Brexit in itself is neither a good thing or a bad thing, but how I was going to use it would be positive, outgoing, democratic and visionary and urged global business to lobby the EU to engage constructively with these proposals.(I would not have reached into my back catalogue and scolded the technolgy companies)

I would, in short, have mobilised business, the public and the cvil service behind my position of leaving under WTO arrangements - then sat down to challenge the EU to come up with a better deal

the problem & all ensuing problems is May. That really should be accentuated, She was out of her depth from day one, i can't be bothered anymore to list the errors she's contrived, or the fact she has wasted 2 1/2 years faffing about & learning Flemish. And she's still there! I therefor take it back about her not performing miracles; & have renamed her Saint Theresa of Whitehall.

if we arent prepared to honor our commitments via the divorce bill i dont think we'll get anywhere. as soon as we put any proposal to them they will immediately say 'what about our cash?'.

the trouble with leaving on wto is it only deals with tariffs. it doesnt deal with regulatory conformity so exporters would be faced with major hurdles. third country controls are onerous and like it or lump it we will end up adopting regulations that fit with the eu or we wont be selling to their market which will always remain important to us. the services sector, where we do well, would be inconvenienced massively, they will have to physically have offices within the eu.

imo no deal likely involves severe pain, it doesnt matter how much mitigation is done (and the work should have started as soon as cameron decided to have a referendum) how it actually plays out is down to how the eu reacts, just how many of its rules will it follow. today i heard it described as mutually assured destruction and that seems about right, they dont seem ready for no deal either. so they will move but they will move at their pace seeking to minimise disruption to themselves, as they have done with air and freight. i just dont think we have enough leverage to take this approach.

erg are the biggest liars in the whole debacle, personally i blame them most for us ending up with such a bad deal. only a couple of days ago mcvey was saying some rubbish about a transitional period if we leave without a deal

I think mrs may gives the game away when she says they may be willing to put in legal text that workers rights,enviromental rights,health,food regulation etc, think most people would take this as a given but if mrs may is thinking of making such things legaly binding in the future relationship, in shows that in the wrong hands ie the ERG,boris and co will be trading their granny for a gooddeal and if we have to let the usual example chol chicken in from the usa so be it,and if we have to become Singapore on thames tax haven to entice trade , business here so be it, all this whilst cuddly duddly rees mog goes on about childrens shoes,baby clothes etc,etc,
not saying any of the above is right or wrong but lets at least have some honesty
anyone thinking rees mogg has spent his whole life wanting to reduce vat,tariffs on childrens footwear,needs their bumps feeling

if we arent prepared to honor our commitments via the divorce bill i dont think we'll get anywhere. as soon as we put any proposal to them they will immediately say 'what about our cash?'.

Okay, what about 'their' cash?

I've said how I would have arrived at an easily identifiable, itemised amount, based on our commitment to existing infrastructure projects and EU pension commitments for British citizens employed by the EU. That is fair and moral.

But as we have seen with thei cavalier attitude to auditing accounts, production of an itemised bill of what we get for what we pay is not the EU's strong suit. Witness their throwing around of any number of figures (up to £100bn was mooted in some quarters) as the 'payment first - then talks' agenda (which is a wholly bogus agenda any way as I pointed out).

As I said, if the EU could offer a better deal than WTO, then this should have been scrutinised and any payment by us clearly delinated so we knew what we were getting for what we wre paying.

All too late for this now of course....

Been precious little exposition of what this better life may look like, probably because Remainers have hijacked the microphone and Leavers have not stepped up to the plate when its been presented to them (Johnson, Gove, rees Mogg, Farage et al)

probably the most succint post on here in recent weeks. I've been saying very similar (to anyone who listens) but not so eloquently

i've grown a bit tired of the divorce analogy, we wont be pursuing a better life elsewhere as we will still have the eu as our biggest trading partner. there is no conceivable way we will make up any lost trade from the eu. its a simple fact that you do most trade with those closest to you so the eu will always be important to us.

i completely disagree about remainers hijacking the microphone, the erg and their clueless think tanks never struggle for air time. the problem is the erg havent a clue what they are talking about, they lie then lie some more. a more clued up press would ask them fairly simple questions which would expose how fraudulent they are. none of them have spent any time thinking about what our future relationship should look like. many of those who now scream for leaving without a deal were the ones who said it would all be so easy, they are clueless.

for me the best case is made by the leave alliance but they get zero publicity and have been shunned by the tory ultras.

owen Patterson on again wto no problem ,don't blame the interviewer he probably doesn't no,but why don't they get a trade,wto expert up against the likes of pattterson and starting getting some truth put these erg guys under pressure to prove their thoughts are right

I think (given both sides obsession with winning) there has been no understanding of the work to do if we do get a proper Brexit.

This whole 'have your cake and eat it' nonsense is precisely that and never had any traction with me.

What I would like to see (as I outlined above) is a recognition of the basic decency of the majority of Remeiners and the values they have - toleration, belief in democracy, equality of opportunity etc - and how they can be driven forward post-Brexit.

Make it about their - well, I hope, all of our - core values, rather than calling them losers and forgetting about them.

Brexit initself is nothing (yup, you read that correctly).

What we make of Brexit and how hard we are prepared to work to achieve it - now there's the rub!

deary me & you want "basic decency", Hanx