Brexit: Relations 'fraying' between Ireland and Britain

to be fair it is.


Make everyone scared that we're being denied what was promised. Feed them bull that "you're the victims and you must stay together and strong and resist the massed forces of EVERYONE ELSE"


Project Fear all over.

the EU says it is Ireland’s mate and trusts it to make big decisions.

It really doesn’t.

It wants Ireland to do one thing and one thing only: wound Brexit.

Ireland is being played like a fiddle. It is being used by an EU that is still reeling from our brilliant Brexit sucker-punch and which is so desperate to preserve its flagging authority that it is willing to pit Ireland against Britain; the Irish government against the British people; Irish concerns against British democracy.

This is cynical, divisive and dangerous.

An oligarchical institution that has demonstrated nothing but contempt for Irish and British voters and which is so speedily losing the plot that it’s happy to stir up tensions between nations in order to do over a democratic vote.

tony blair has had a lot to say on brexit today, wants mps to rebel

The EU have grasped the border issue like a comfort blanket as they see the start of their unravelling.
The Common Market was a great concept and that is what we joined not this would be United States of Eurotrash.
The sooner we are out the better and a No Deal would be a great deal.

The EU is Ireland's mate in the same way they are Greece's mate

PorcupineorPineapple
04 Nov 18 11:42
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 6,342 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
How are the issues of the EU's making?

At the very start both sides on the process: we'd agree on rights of people, the NI border and something else. Once that's done we'll discuss future arrangements.

^

That was done by remainer May. it was the first 'mistake' of the Brexit process.

Ireland has sold the Rest of Europe out with their Snide or lack of Corporate TAX ,trying to hold on to Big Business ..

Fook Em and their Border, they will have enough problems of their own going forward .

IT - again though, I'm just pointing out that the Irish border is a mess of our own making. I'll happily raise the EU Bullying thread for those here convinced the EU are purposefully harming us if they've got any evidence.

Verrucca Needs to Sort his own Country out Thousands of Homeless on the Street

Another open Border Disaster  ,which Led to terrorists travelling From Dublin to London ...

Casemoney,he does indeed need to sort out housing,health etc, then again so does the UK,how many people there rely on food banks?

How close is it to the magic 48 ?

can you get chickpeas, fresh coriander and sweet potatoes at these food banks - they sound like a good idea

Coriander is the devils herb Moisok,shunned even by rabbits, 4 million and growing(sic) fwiw, some number.

Ur spot on Pa a situation that can Only be inflamed by letting in Immigrants in a Gung Ho fashion ....

You give something away for nothing yet some are surprised that it attracts people in large numbers.
Of those who use the foodbanks I wonder how many are smokers, drinkers, go to the bingo and have mobile phones?

I will never touch it again - thank you for that  -

it is rather nice with the above ingredients etc  - us of the Islington Labour set see it as being very cultural although I may be accused of appropriation ho ho

you could always leave the country casemoney, make some room for some proper hard working people instead imo.

without immigrants, the National Health Service would collapse like a sack of spuds

thank goodness for at least one son of the soil^^

Did Verrucca  not say he would Ban British Planes from Flying over Eire I believe he lives his Life with a Large spoon in his hand .

I couldn't Do that Shaven  , where Else in the World would I be able to see so many Seething Sad People , I was not 100 % for Brexit but on seeing the pathetic Exposure of TEAM LUVVIE,  I fooking am Now

PorcupineorPineapple
04 Nov 18 13:32
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 6,343 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
IT - again though, I'm just pointing out that the Irish border is a mess of our own making. I'll happily raise the EU Bullying thread for those here convinced the EU are purposefully harming us if they've got any evidence.

^

It is something the EU and May agreed to early. Both of whom wanted the UK to remain in the EU.

ireland still owes the UK millions from the loans they were given back in 2008

Yes they wont be getting anymore

Over 400 million paid in interest so far,should be paid up by 2021.

A slight lowering of corporate tax and they should get it back in no time.

IT - that's just a paranoid delusion put forward for saps to believe I'm afraid.

So let’s look at this Irish border matter.

We’re given to believe that there absolutely mustn’t be a ‘hard border’ between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Thus we have May and her minions disappearing up their own ar$es$ trying to define what exactly constitutes this ‘hard border’ and anguishing about whether cameras count. An absence of ‘infrastructure’ along a boundary that, in legal terms, is already about as hard as it can get — between two entirely different countries — is ‘enshrined’ (that would be the EU and its Irish lapdog’s worshipful adjective of choice: 'enshrined') in the Good Friday Agreement.

But the GFA is not holy writ.

It is a highly flawed accord, negotiated in a state of late-night frenzy. It is not a set of eternal laws to live by dictated to Abraham from the Lord Thy God on Mount Sinai.

Now 20 years old, the agreement could be regarded as having already served its purpose: getting the island’s excitable elements to stop killing each other. I’m not suggesting we chuck the thing. But that document was put together in different political circumstances: both nations entering into the agreement were members of the EU. Now one of them is leaving. If the document cannot accommodate this modification, something is wrong with the document, not with the historical change. For people and paper alike, the key to survival is adaptation.

The GFA itself was full of dubious compromises and exceptions — the wholesale release of prisoners, including murderers who’d served mere months; the unprecedented granting to one nation of political say in the sovereign affairs of another — all in the service of expedience. If the GFA is possible, so are a few cameras between Newry and Dundalk.

Next: the policing of any national border involves entities on either side. On the British side of this one, May has been clear from the outset that the UK has no interest in heavy-handed customs or immigration enforcement. That is what is called ‘the UK’s business’. There being once again such a thing as ‘the UK’s business’ is what Brexit is all about. Whatever happens on the Republic’s side of the border is the EU’s business. Yet, as has been pinted out by IT above, cravenly accepting the EU's bossing of the Brexit agenda from the get-go, addles the brain.

Staggeringly, the EU has persuaded the PM that the EU’s prosecution of a member state’s border is her problem! May’s offer to collect the bloc’s own tariffs, and subject importers to torturous ‘rebates’, constitutes abasement. Insofar as it is a problem, that border is the EU’s problem. Trump can put up his silly wall on the US side of its southern perimeter, but even the Donald wouldn’t presume to dictate procedure on the Mexican side. It’s therefore not up to May to concoct a ‘solution’ to a problem she need not recognise and need not own. 

Moreover, the EU’s professed helplessness in the face of its own bureaucracy is fake.

Eurocrats make all manner of exceptions to their own laws when it suits them. (For years, Brussels has turned a blind eye to Russia’s political manipulation of energy prices to different member states, in flagrant violation of EU law. Germany gets a sweetheart deal, so who cares if the Poles are screwed?) Michel Barnier’s obduracy about the rules regarding external borders is a pose, just like his concern for ‘peace’. That guy doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about Northern Ireland.

Lastly: what is the unspeakable consequence of a ‘hard border’? Chris Patten likened tinkering with Northern Irish border arrangements to carrying ‘a can of petrol and a box of matches’. Who’d light the petrol? Supposedly, IRA retrogrades, with Sinn Fein cheering them on.

Doesn’t this sound horribly familiar? It’s the same old blackmail!

If one customs official checks a single boot for a jar of Potcheen then it’s back to Tube station bombings in London!

Really? I don’t find that credible. But I do find the fearful reasoning repellent. We’re supposed to stay in the customs union — and the single market, and why not the EU while we’re at it — and thus defy the democratic wishes of the British electorate, just because we’re still afraid of the Ongoing IRA?

I’m sorry, but those losers don’t scare me anymore.

This whole conundrum is contrived.

May needs to tell Barnier that the Irish border is his problem, since we don’t have one. With a nominal volume of trade, and with the Irish already accept the Common Travel Area so they have no problem with their citizens being treated as though they are British, the border is sortable. For policy should be a slave to purpose, not the other way around. When bureaucracy goes wrong — look at the Home Office and the Windrush affair — it is a slave to itself. Agreements, rules, laws — they’re all malleable, mere methods by which we accomplish our aims.

Alas, the UK’s aim is to escape the EU, and - I'm sorry to re-iterate this but it is not a 'paranoid delusion', but a reasonable summation of the EU's entire approach to negotiations with the UK - the EU’s aim is to stop us (or extract as much money out of us for the continuance of 'the project' and to warn others what'll happen to them if they get a bit uppity).

PorcupineorPineapple
04 Nov 18 17:33
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 6,344 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
IT - that's just a paranoid delusion put forward for saps to believe I'm afraid.

^

Maybe. But remember May had a secret team of unelected officials drawing up the 'Chequers' deal behind the backs of the cabinet and The Department for Exiting the European Union.

The actual Department for Exiting the European Union was working on something completely different at the time.

Do you feel you can trust May when she carries on like that?

January sale sell out !!!

Instead of building a hard border as everyone gets along so well let's go the whole hog and pull down the peace walls dividing the two communities

IT - I wouldn't trust any tory as far as I could throw them. Will only ever be interested in their own welfare.

Just pointing out that the idea that the EU are using Northern Ireland to bully us is a fallacy.

We sat down, signed an agreement and have since decided to renege on it. That's all.

can't wait till it's all over one way or another, sick of the word Brexit, bored of the coversations, 24 news stations feeding off of it day in, day out, it has overshadowed a lot of other important domestic issues as well.

Get the feeling though nobody will happy with the deal and after March next year, people will still be moaning for another few years on both Remain and Leave side, boring.

The reasons it never stops are:
1. People like those on here, who think about little else.
2. The pigs and vultures of the press - perpetuating the divide and making a bleeding good living out of it.

Don't think the EU is using Ireland. Its the other way round- they warned us about this issue during the referendum, we weren't listening or didn't consider it important. The Irish then went to EU and insisted it was included in any withdrawal agreement otherwise they were not signing anything. That is still the case.

We mightn't like it - but they aren't doing anything wrong. They are just protecting their own interests. What else did we expect - "ok, go ahead stick up the border again". That didn't work too well for then or us the last time?

My question is - what alternative to they have?

*do they have?^

There’s wallflower , he’s another one who agreed with the threat of violence being used to intimidate people as can be seen from his post

The republicans and nationalists are going to have to learn to respect democracy

now there was a border poll in N Ireland in the 1970s

600, 000 voted to remain part or the U.K.
6,000 voted to be part of a United Ireland

The Irish government and the EU are going to have to respect democracy

Ireland and the EU are using the threat of IRA violence to try and get their way

That’s something wallflower and others don’t seem to have any problem with , they seem to think they have no other option
Indeed they seem to think it’s a good thing , it’s reprehensible really

lfc, was that Irish referendum before or after the UK's referendum asking about membership of the EU?

Asking for 16,000,000 friends.

pp you are quite right , if the IRA and other nationalists are so intent of leaving the EU and voting Brexit that they might change their views on a United Ireland that’s fine

They have only to vote for it , what’s wrong with that
Don’t like the result ?

Just asking for 17, 000,000 others

In the last referendum ( 1973) on whether N Ireland should remain part of the U.K. or form a United ireland  98.9 % voted to remain part of the U.K.

It was the first time a referendum had been held in any part of the U.K.

Of course the republicans and nationalists didn’t respect that vote either
And now the same anti democratic and violent elements are aligning with remainers  and the Irish government

^"republicans,nationalists,anti-democratic,violent" You really are trying to paint some picture aren't you?
In the very small possibility occuring would it necessary be just nationalists?

Just pure and simple hatred of Ireland/Irish,sin e bhfuil Lfc.

It’s true I don’t like the Irish pa lapsy , it is what it is

But that doesn’t make what I said any less true , sorry

I’m 100% sure the same people who are throwing all sorts of insults at the Irish would be the same people getting their knickers in a twist if Ireland had voted to leave the EU then suggested putting up a hard border.

The stupidly and hypocrisy of some on here - we all know who they are - knows no bounds.

lfc  - the question is there (unanswered as usual)- what do you want the Irish to do?

Don’t expect an answer from him - he’s good at throwing insults but lacks the very basic intelligence to hold a debate.

Nov 5, 2018 -- 10:30AM, Mr Eboue wrote:

I’m 100% sure the same people who are throwing all sorts of insults at the Irish would be the same people getting their knickers in a twist if Ireland had voted to leave the EU then suggested putting up a hard border. The stupidly and hypocrisy of some on here - we all know who they are - knows no bounds.

Personally, if Ireland voted to leave the EU and put up a hard border (and you'd need to define that - checkpoints? frisking down every person crossing? lorry parks whilst goods are inspected. Barbed wire? Cameras?) then I would regard that as an issue entirely for the Irish republic and if they had democratically voted for that then it is none of Britain's interest as to how they implement things.

Don't apologise to me Lfc,apologise to yourself, you are airing your views with your own agenda on here,which you admit is bigotry and sectarianism?
That's your own problem.

I didn’t apologise for that now did I ?

There’s no point reading words , if you don’t understand words

ps I’ve lived and worked in Ireland ( has Eboue ), I enjoyed it
Some Irish people are very nice , of course

My mistake,the "sorry" (10.17) was in fact the opposite to an apology, so you just confirm you revel in your Irish hatred.

Dia duit agus slan

worked alongside all types of Irish people Catholics and Protestants unionists and nationalists and we socialised together outside of work , very good , in fact worked every day for a number of years
It’s not a problem, ok with that ?

Another day and lfc1971 showing himself up to be a cant as per usual

I bet his never aired his hate filled opinion of the Irish when he was over here, quiet as a wee mouse no doubt.

Nov 5, 2018 -- 8:47AM, lfc1971 wrote:

Of course the republicans and nationalists didn’t respect that vote eitherAnd now the same anti democratic and violent elements are aligning with remainers  and the Irish government

rofl as they completely boycotted it, that is hardly surprising.

The North of Ireland is part of the UK, and will remain so until they vote to re-join Southern Ireland.

So there are two separate countries occupying the island of Ireland.


It would be better if the border remained soft, but we are worried about it being abused, so it is a problem.,

so may have to become hard.


We could trial a soft border after we leave EU, and see it is abused?

If it is, it will probably have to become hard.

now I don’t like the Irish because I don’t trust them , we have only to see how they have behaved over Brexit
And then again I don’t like remainers either , because of how they’ve behaved over Brexit

I don’t like them , and will never trust them , it is what it is

^ see what I mean about remainers ?

If Derry wants to start creating saucy postcards, I reckon they should get uble to write them up.

Lfc - once again...I'm curious.... what did you expect the Irish to do? How exactly have they "behaved badly" over Brexit? From their perspective, would it not be irresponsible for them to allow a border to appear on the island after 20 years as a by-product of Brexit - something they have nothing to do with.

If anyone has behaved badly it is us - we ignored them prior, during and post referendum on this issue, hoping it would go away. We are now back-tracking on agreements we have made twice with them (EU and Ireland) last December and March.

I'm being objective on this. Leaving aside your self-stated dislike / distrust of the Irish - it isn't difficult to see where they are coming from.

In November and December 2017 the RoI's leaders were saying the negotiation was going fine and there would be a solution to the border problem.

Then the EU Commission released a paper - seemingly without the knowledge of the RoI government - which changed all of that dramatically.

RTE says Leo Varadkar did know about it. In that case, he lied to the Dáil Éireann. Much more likely the EU Commission blindsided him, he put a brave face on it and RTE sucked it up in a way that no UK media outlet ever would.

It weaponised the Irish border.

It made Brexit into a 'moral' issue.

How could the UK break the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) ? The 'Troubles' could start up again. The border solution was 'magical thinking' and 'unicorns'. All of their propaganda outlets from The Times to 'Mary Ann' pumped out this rubbish.

The EU knows very well that the border 'problem' is solvable by technology, the 'maxfac' solution proposed by David Davis. They just want to use it as a lever to make a simple Brexit impossible - or even more costly for the UK, which has been the EU's negotiating position from the get-go.

Mr Eboue
05 Nov 18 13:13
Joined: 15 Sep 09
| Topic/replies: 26,039 | Blogger: Mr Eboue's blog
It’s time for everyone to stop replying to LFC. He has nothing to do with his pathetic life bar talk hateful nonsense on this forum 24/7.

^

What a divisive, hateful and unnecessary thing to write.

If you don't like what he writes debate him or turn off his comments if you cannot handle it.

No need to try to incite other people against him just because he says something you personally do not agree with.

Hanx    .....  really?  Sources please.  Anyway EU and Ireland seem to be at one on this - as were we in December 2O17. It was the Irish who put this into the conditions of withdrawal agreement. Same question to you - what did you expect them to do? I genuinely don't know what I would have done, other than what they have. Seems to me they have been very patient with all our nonsense, indecision and political paralysis.

"The EU knows very well that the border 'problem' is solvable by technology,"

What technology is that? The EU/Ireland and everyone else wanted to know. Nobody, not the UK government or private company has came forward to say it exists or even it could be developed. Bottom line the technology that can check inside lorries and vans is not there.

Can we just put that one to bed - until you actually name the technology that would do the job.

This NI border issue has been made an issue by the EU.

ROI and UK could solve it no problem by having a limited technical border but the EU is making it difficult for one simple reason..
They want to control us and have our money.

It is impossible to have our own trade agreements around the world (setting our own standards and rules) and have a completely open border with the EU.

The EU know this and are using it to stop us making a success of Brexit.

The Irish are being used by the EU.

Instead of coming to sensible arrangement the Irish could face the chaos of hard border in a few months if no deal happens. The very thing the ROI does not want (and the EU claims to be bothered about) is more likely to happen because of the EU's stance.

The EU wants to put off anyone leaving so wants either:
1. Chaos of a no deal. or
2. US to stay in the CU and SM and keep paying them.

They do not want a sensible solution. They mentioned a FTA is on the table but it is not actually due to the way they have weaponised the Irish border.

eboue - that is disgusting

but then what can you expect - you disagree with someone's viewpoint and then hurl invective - it is the modern progressive way

the anti brexit propaganda grows and grows - we have to be punished for voting the wrong way
and I am guessing here but think May will sell out

Nov 5, 2018 -- 3:02PM, Wallflower wrote:

Hanx    .....  really?  Sources please.  Anyway EU and Ireland seem to be at one on this - as were we in December 2O17. It was the Irish who put this into the conditions of withdrawal agreement. Same question to you - what did you expect them to do? I genuinely don't know what I would have done, other than what they have. Seems to me they have been very patient with all our nonsense, indecision and political paralysis."The EU knows very well that the border 'problem' is solvable by technology,"What technology is that? The EU/Ireland and everyone else wanted to know. Nobody, not the UK government or private company has came forward to say it exists or even it could be developed. Bottom line the technology that can check inside lorries and vans is not there.Can we just put that one to bed - until you actually name the technology that would do the job.

Gladly:

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1117/920981-long-read-brexit/

Nov 4, 2018 -- 10:21AM, lfc1971 wrote:

There is never going to be a United Ireland , the Protestant people of N Ireland built that country and will simply declare UDI , so forget

Didn't show when I posted.

lfc1971 - serious question. Are you an ex soldier that served in Northern Ireland?

I worked there as a contractor

Went to school there for a while also

Fathers job meant we lived there for most of secondary school years , so I know what it’s like of course
Dangerous times if you were in the wrong job

Gladly:

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1117/920981-long-read-brexit/

Thank you. Long-ish read -  I'll read it when I get a chance shortly, working from home have to take some calls.


Part Deux -  the famous technology?

common sense and less talk of problems would be best , why this whole issue of the border was ever highlighted I don’t know

Really if everyone was to step back and take a pragmatic approach and say we will get onto to trade talks and of course we will all try and minimise any problems regarding the Irish border , that’s good and fine .

I don’t really see how we can do anything more than that ?

Hanx,

"The paper had been carefully choreographed between the Irish Government and the EU Brexit Task Force, led by the chief negotiator Michel Barnier.  So Leo Varakdar was well aware of its contents and importance when he spoke".


Seems to me it wasn't a surprise to the Irish at all? Nor does it look that he lied to the Dail - saying a breakthrough was "likely" turned out to be true?

Anyway - the only solution they (EU/Ireland) came up with to solve the border is viable (notwithstanding Unionist concerns). We accepted that - and they are open to alternative solutions. We haven't come up with any - apart from the non-existing technology solution which it appears we have also given up on.

My question remains .....  what should Ireland have done? or do?

Ireland should have done nothing , they are duty bound to accept the outcome of trade talks between the EU and Britain

so in essence it’s a matter for them and the EU
They will have to decide how they want to trade

lfc - that's what backstop does. Allows talks to continue. If trade arrangement negates the need for a border then there is no problem. That is the EU/Ireland preferred outcome. If we are confident such a trade arrangement can be made then we need not worry about the backstop -it will never be activated.

No , we can talk without a backstop

Nothing need change in regard to trade agreements until new ones are in place
If we need new one

Wallflower,

Apart from staying in the SM and CU what trade arrangement could possibly get rid of the need for some kind of border checks? How can the integrity of the SM be maintained if there is an open border with a country outside the SM?

We should leave , and then discuss trade
Well we should have left 2 years ago

There should be no backstop , we cannot guarantee not to have a hard border or anything else
sorry

May should have made it quite clear from the start , we are not guaranteeing anything in regard to the UKs borders

InsiderTrader
     05 Nov 18 17:10   

Wallflower,

Apart from staying in the SM and CU what trade arrangement could possibly get rid of the need for some kind of border checks? How can the integrity of the SM be maintained if there is an open border with a country outside the SM? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------...

IT, that's a good point - none currently. The idea that NI would have to stay within SM/CU while still being part of the UK. ie  special status, is the only option. This is what EU/Ireland is saying - UNLESS a new "special" trade arrangement is made between EU and UK for frictionless trade. This is what UK desperately wants i.e.  the promised "sunny uplands" of Brexit.

Interestingly this "special status" for NI only would be a bonanza for investment in NI. My colleagues in Ireland have said it would actually cause ROI problems as it would deflect current investment in the Republic to NI, however they reckon as long as the DUP are around they should be "safe enough" as they only look backwards!!

Wallflower,

Couple of points:
1. We are leaving the CU and SM.
2. No border in the Irish Sea.

So this means ultimately there will have to be a border for there to be a Brexit with the benefits of ending free movement of people and doing own trade deals.

There is no way round it.

Yes  ---   but we have an international treaty with Ireland (overseen by EU and US) which makes clear no border on Ireland (an all-Ireland economy).

? No way round it - means we pull out of that treaty, except we have repeatedly committed to it. Its a mess - and as I said the Irish did warn us.

This circle can't be squared.

Sica Dan
ireland still owes the UK millions from the loans they were given back in 2008

The Government has averted a €200 million penalty by deciding not to repay its UK bailout loans early, as it moves ahead with plans to refinance its remaining International Monetary Fund debt as well as bilateral borrowings from Denmark and Sweden.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe said on Thursday they plan to execute an early repayment of the remaining €4.5 billion owed to the IMF and €1 billion given to the State in 2010 by Denmark and Sweden.
The move depends on all European Union states agreeing to waive the right of two EU bailout facilities, which gave Ireland €40.2 billion during the crisis, to seek early repayment at the same time.

Meanwhile, a spokeswoman for the Department of Finance told The Irish Times that paying the UK’s £3.23 billion (€3.5 billion) credit line early would trigger a €200 million penalty under a break clause attached to the facility.
This would more than wipe out the €150 million interest saving the National Treasury Management Agency has estimated will be achieved by repaying the remaining IMF, Danish and Swedish loans ahead of schedule.

You are saying pull out of the GFA. The government is saying its not, but its also saying

"1. We are leaving the CU and SM.
2. No border in the Irish Sea."

something has to give.

Dont matter , borders are dead
Technology and the likes of ryanair have killed borders
Muslims are here in ireland
Can travel any time they like to uk
Secterian abuse wont keep borders in place

The GFA has to be amended for the new generation to allow tech checks at the border.

The idea you cannot have at least number plate cameras on a border between the EU and the UK is strange. How else can you police anything?

Nov 5, 2018 -- 4:41PM, Wallflower wrote:

Gladly:https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1117/920981-long-read-brexit/ Thank you. Long-ish read -  I'll read it when I get a chance shortly, working from home have to take some calls.Part Deux -  the famous technology?

You'll forgive me if I don't go into the deep engineering of this.

Seriously, when arguing the case for Brexit over the past 2 years (it seems longer) I've had to become an expert in disparate areas such as equine quarantine, air traffic control protocols, aeronautical engineering standards, inter-bank lending rates and the Bosman ruling and how this might affect football transfers post Brexit, all to satisfy questions asked by Remainers - curiously they seem very tardy when answering questions of what do they think the endgame of the EU is or why do they think it's important they are recognised as patriots?

Anyway, the only thing I can liken this to is VAT.

We don't have a man from the exchequer sitting at every till in the country demanding his tithe on every purchase made. This is left to 'technology'(everything from cash tills to online payment mechanisms to Sage accounting software) to view the transactions that have been made, which companies owe what and a mechanism for declaration and payment of that every few months.

So - and please forgive the superficial and vague nature of this - it cannot be beyond the wit of man to use ANPR systems, barcode technology, import / export manifests and a register of 'trusted importers / exporters' to be able to develop a method of checking and collecting revenues due from importers / exporters.

I am happy to maintain a free travel arrangement for people crossing the border and I've already argued that the first thing Cameron or May should have done would be to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK and dared the EU to do differently vis-a-vis UK citizens in Europe.

As for illegal immigration, well if there is suddenly a groundswell of desire for mosques to be built in Dundalk then we may need to re-assess this issue at that point