Skripal 2

how does putin keep managing to sneak in all the time?

When Trump sits with Putin, I think he will have a lot to say about UK's nonsense handling of this and blaming it on Putin with neither any evidence provided nor any agreement to a joint investigation. They need to invent a term on the line of Fake News. Maybe Fake attacks or something.

Putin is a genius,he is everywhere

Wonder what Kind of Bottle it was ? Why would it be randomly disgarded ,Why would anyone pick a bottle up and take it home ?

Something wrong somewhere .

No its an anti Russian thing,burnt the toast? blame the Russians!

no, detraveller, pootin will just spend hour after hour telling trump that the deep state is conspiring to ruin his presidency and delegitimise his record breaking victory.  He'll probably show some animations, like the ones he made up after killing the women and children on flight MH17.  After that he'll give him a joint statement of some kind to sign.  Trumpy will be a bit hesitant at first but pooty will win him round by saying "what big hands" and he will quickly sign.

bottle might have had a "drink me" lable on it

curiouser and curiouser




its got the makings of a good book and film, but we dont have an ending yet.

Starring Theresa May as the Queen of Hearts ?

Leak at Porton Down may be behind UK nerve agent poisoning-Russian Embassy. However diplomats said that they "cannot check or verify any British Statements" because London "refuses to cooperate with us in any possible way" with this issue.

It would have been much easier if they'd blamed this on the IS and then said the russians gave it to the IS. Now the brits looking like complete morons.

errr I think its the standard utube/blog readers who are looking like complete morons as usual.

I only see the brit govt looking like complete morons. I don't waste my time on utube/blogs. I only waste it on chit chat.

well they are morons, but not as much as the stooges who, when knowing virtually zero significant info about the issue, spout off as if they had personal briefings from the intelligence services to add to their Phds in nerve agent toxicology.

The usual tactics from Dave, it doesn't works c0ck but keep at it,yawn!! Dave the guy who thrives off no proof,you must be in your element here boy

terry on the vegas mass shooting

A man buying multiple guns
The same man buying large amounts of ammunition
The same man checking into a hotel room
The same man videoed bringing many large suitcases up to his hotel room
The same man found dead in the hotel room after the shooting with the above referenced guns, ammunition and suitcases around him.

Terry says he is innocent.  Terry has yet to provide the semblance of an explanation for the above.  Terry has no qualifications of any kind and spends his life reading nonsense on the internet.  Terry is the poster child of a wasted mind.

Terry - Did you say this man was innocent ?

I said I think the guy was used as a patsy for the reasons given,ie no cctv no pics nothing and all in a place where there are cameras everywhere, as Dave points out lots of stuff to make people think it was him but what about the people who made the mistake to go on YouTube who were at the gig and said there was more than one shooter?

what are you on about there is loads of cctv footage. no doubt you will now tell us it's all fake tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZRgVX8SYX4

Wrong, the FBI took it away so f uck knows what you are watching?? It certainly wasn't Paddock shooting at anyone from that room now was it North

they don't have cctv in the rooms now do they. there is however bodycam footage of them breaking into the room.

https://news.sky.com/story/bodycam-footage-of-police-entering-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddocks-room-11356516

i'm not sure what it is you want to think happened. you certainly don't subscribe to Occam's razor theory do you

Monumental Bollocks,do you honestly think that proves he shoot anyone,do me a favour son

*shot, and yes cctv everywhere including the loo

it must be exhausting being you.
with this poisoning case it is so weird i could just about believe any mad theory but in that case
i think it was just guy with a homicidal grudge and a lot of guns & ammo.

lol,what makes me tired is having a bit of banter with you North but at least you give an answer unlike some

terry on the vegas mass shooting

A man buying multiple guns
The same man buying large amounts of ammunition
The same man checking into a hotel room
The same man videoed bringing many large suitcases up to his hotel room
The same man found dead in the hotel room after the shooting with the above referenced guns, ammunition and suitcases around him.

Terry says he is innocent.  Terry has yet to provide the semblance of an explanation for the above.  Terry has no qualifications of any kind and spends his life reading nonsense on the internet.  Terry is the poster child of a wasted mind.

Talking about never a straight answer, he"s here now

btw terry how many times have you been to vegas?

There are no tv cameras in rooms or in many room corridors, just the exit and entrance points.

Casinos in vegas primarily care about their money, so the bulk of the surveillance is in the areas where their money is at risk.  That isn't hotel rooms.

This isn't difficult terry, which of these do you disagree with about paddock:

buying multiple guns

buying large amounts of ammunition

checking into a hotel room

videoed bringing many large suitcases up to his hotel room

found dead in the hotel room after the shooting with the above referenced guns, ammunition and suitcases around him.

Just like when he's questioned about various aspects of his fake moon landings theory, terry is awol

i don't think he actually has any theory about the skripal case, but if he has i imagine that it will be as laughable as all his other beliefs.

Dave,the skripal case is a totally mystery but I do think it was set up to blame the Russians, whats your thoughts on it?

btw where have I been proven wrong on anything,would you kindly list them Dave ta

This isn't difficult terry, which of these do you disagree with about paddock:

buying multiple guns

buying large amounts of ammunition

checking into a hotel room

videoed bringing many large suitcases up to his hotel room

found dead in the hotel room after the shooting with the above referenced guns, ammunition and suitcases around him.

Not sure that the Las Vegas shootings are connected to the Salisbury 'poisonings' .
Completely different MO , plus the Las Vegas shooter was pronounced dead at the scene ..........

terry brought vegas up not me

Dave not answering any questions it seems.

.....so it was in a perfume bottle.

but they didnt do anything with it for a month?


suppose a spy or smuggler would happily smuggle in perfume bottle, but if it
was mixed in uk ....why put it in a perfume bottle?

to utilise the atomiser to spray onto door handle?


hmmmm, need confirmation of course of perfume bottle, and origin of bottle !

^ Good observations.

If it was Russians then perfume bottle makes sense in terms of smuggling. Does this increase the possibility of a Rosa Klebb doing the deed (or at least smuggling it in)? If the henchman was a man, would a bottle of Brut not be the logical smuggling receptacle? 

Would agree that if the Eau De Novichok was brewed up here then first thought it you don't need to go to those lengths to carry it about (plus there are Shirley safer carrying methods for the 21st century assassin than a glass bottle?). Then again I suppose you can't exactly walk 'round Salisbury with a Super Soaker full of the stuff, so perfume bottle still useful for practical reasons.

But then this segues into the Skripal II incident and how and why (and when) it came about. If we go with the accidental found-perfume-bottle-under-bush account (and presumably Rowley's account has shaped this) are we really believing that the would-be Skripal assassin (whether Klebb or Bond) just chucked the Novichok under a bush once to get rid? Seems incredibly unlikely to me. If you're Klebb, you'd could Shirley come up with a better hiding place than that. If you're Bond, you simply take the Brut bottle back to Q.

Jul 15, 2018 -- 9:59PM, Shrewd_dude wrote:

Dave not answering any questions it seems.

Why should I answer questions?  I don't know anything about the skripal incident that isn't public?

suppose a spy or smuggler would happily smuggle in perfume bottle, but if it
was mixed in uk ....why put it in a perfume bottle?

If this perfume bottle thesis turns out to be true then to me a pattern becomes more apparent.
Whether the Skirpals were originally targetted or not may be a red herring, based on the fact he had a background of espionage.

If it were put into a perfume bottle then it looks remarkably like the insidious tactic used with computer virus attacks using USB sticks.
Most people on finding a bottle of perfume would spray it even if they were then to throw it away.
Depending on its smell and assumed worth (perfume bottles tend to be very elaborate in design to increase their perception of value) then a person might even keep it.

With USB virus attacks, USB sticks are just left in public areas, car parks etc to look like somebody might have dropped something that creates intrigue and the nosey finder then attaches it to their computer and then the virus is passed to that device.

Well the perfume bottle acts the very same, just instead of a compter virus its a nerve agent and instead of the computer its a human.
Just the very presence of such an agent in the population is enough to create a story, perhaps the Skirpals were just unintended prey in the first instance.

* though it is more likely the above tactic might have been used to target the female skirpal either way (either by design of Russians or British)
I doubt even if the bottle is recovered there will ever be any independent scrutiny however.

Usual sh1te then from Dave 20.09 dumping the "Official" claptrap,i mean whats there not to believe .
But like ive always said...the guy is a troll and not even a good one...don't censor him...let him speak so we can hear just how thick and uninformed he is.

Terry you're a stupid man.  You don't have any qualifications because you're stupid.  You can't engage in critical thinking because you're stupid.

You consistently promote narratives that would involve conspiracies so enormous and involving so many people that it would be utterly pointless to try to expose them.  In fact it is remarkable that someone like you, who completely devotes his limited intellect to that cause, hasn't been dispatched by the vast machinery of the conspirators.

And is how TROLL work, "yer thick,yer stupid,yer this yer that!
No you like mexico(one or the same)? NEVER EVER ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION, get lost man

Terry you're a stupid man.  You don't have any qualifications because you're stupid.  You can't engage in critical thinking because you're stupid

Such constructive , reasoned debate and discussion is exactly what this forum is all about .
Similarly , any mention of concerns regarding other specific topics is often met with accusations of racism , fascism , 'right wing' etc . Much easier than addressing issues with reasoned , constructive debate . Childish name-calling is rarely an indicator of a being of higher intellect .

terry you are stupid though, that's the point.  You promote absurd theories that would require thousands of people to conspire in silence.  Not just one conspiracy theory but dozens, unrelated requiring thousands and thousands more. 

You won't answer the simplest of questions about your theories, like "did the apollo mission actually land on the moon" if no "how did they fake the telecoms traffic".

With the Vegas shooting you simply scream "patsy" without explaining:

Paddock bought the guns and ammo, Paddock checked into the hotel room, Paddock is videoed bringing multiple large suitcases to his room, after the shooting from his hotel room, Paddock is found dead surrounded by his suitcases full of the guns and ammo he bought.

In this case you say "the skripal case is a totally mystery but I do think it was set up to blame the Russians".

Once again no effort at all to consider the logistics and payoff of such a plan.

Russia's stock with the West has never been lower, there is hardly a pressing need to smear them.  This plan would require some sort of authority in government, who would allow the nerve agent to be developed immediately involving many people (who would know the use it had been put to after the event) - an enormous risk.  The payoff for this huge risk - a few diplomats sent home?

It is slightly more plausible that the material was stolen from Russia by British agents, but surely it would have been equally effective for smearing purposes just to announce that Russia had stocks of the substance? 

We are never going to know what Skripal was up to which would provide insight into whether the UK wanted him alive or the Russians wanted him dead, so there really isn't any point in speculating.  Russia has a track record of making strong statements when killing people that it feels are a threat, so it isn't at all surprising that they would use such a method.

Jul 16, 2018 -- 10:41AM, Reynard wrote:

Terry you're a stupid man.  You don't have any qualifications because you're stupid.  You can't engage in critical thinking because you're stupidSuch constructive , reasoned debate and discussion is exactly what this forum is all about .Similarly , any mention of concerns regarding other specific topics is often met with accusations of racism , fascism , 'right wing' etc . Much easier than addressing issues with reasoned , constructive debate . Childish name-calling is rarely an indicator of a being of higher intellect .

as above post - he is stupid that's the point.  That is why engaging with him on the relevant issues is fruitless.

You are a waste of space Dave,were you a bully at school as well sweetheart?

aaaand not the least effort to engage the issues.

Report• Quote • Block User dustybin • July 16, 2018 9:19 AM BST
* though it is more likely the above tactic might have been used to target the female skirpal

Motive and whodunnit aside, I'm not sure that really squares with it being a door handle at the Skripal's that was seemingly "squirted", and not the Skripal daughter - this latter incident seems much more consistent with the woman seeing what the perfume was like. It would also mean that whoever done it m'lud would have had to go back to the Skripal house to fetch the perfume bottle back so they could chuck it under the bush.

Presumably plod have asked/will ask the Skripals if they encountered the bottle they've now got.

They most likely will ask them, but whether we ever hear about it will be another matter.

Women test spray perfume on their wrists and rub it in, its not that hard to believe that getting on the hands and the hands touching the door handle.
There were early reports of this now dead woman 'going through bins'
Perhaps the perfume was disguarded?

Yes, Skripal daughter could feasibly have done the wrist thing and contaminated the door handle. But how plausible is it that she survived direct contact yet Sturgess died doing (presumably) the same thing? Appreciate you can have different reactions/exposure levels etc. etc, but...

If she didn't like it and decided to chuck it in the bin, why the time lapse to Sturgess/Rowley taking a hit? What's the perfume bottle been doing all this time, and is brother's story about finding it under the bush accurate? Also, plod were all over the Skripal's house on the same day (and you'd think they'd have the nouse to check the bins) so, if the perfume bottle was fished out of the bin by a "passer by", they wouldn't have had much time to do it. It would also have been daylight.

'.......We are never going to know what Skripal was up to which would provide insight into whether the UK wanted him alive or the Russians wanted him dead, so there really isn't any point in speculating.  Russia has a track record of making strong statements when killing people that it feels are a threat, so it isn't at all surprising that they would use such a method.......'

A contradiction in terms here.

Yes, Russia has ' history' of assassinating enemies. They are successful. They weren't in the Skripals case.
As has been stated many times from various sources within Russia, if they wanted Skripal dead, he now woul be.

All this nonsense about nerve agents inside perfume bottles ,relying on someone finding it, squirting it, rubbing onto their wrists , etc etc is just that.......nonsense !!!

Dave says its the Russians cos he read it the Sun so must be true

oh a lie from terry - who'd have thought it?

Whichever rag Dave

keep repeating and people start to believe it - now who used to say that?

Was it summat to do with Sky News being on a loop ?

UK are preparing to send an extradition request to Russia
Two suspects

Russia obvs 1.01 to refuse the request. Cue another couple of weeks of gesticulating and telling teacher and accusations and then we can forget about it again for a while.

Why would they refuse ?
If they are innocent it’s a win win situation for Putin

I would almost be easier to list reasons for why they wouldn't refuse!!

If they're not innocent - and Putin/Kremlin know this - then that would obviously be a good reason for refusing.
Then if you look at the record for extradition requests being granted... the H2H figures don't look good for lumping on over 1.5 to be extradited.
And even if Russia genuinely isn't involved, they took up a clear stance once the UK had accused them of being involved - they're not going to roll over now and say "oh, well done on finding your man. Ever so sorry he turned out to be one of ours. Here you go".

Of course they will not be extradited
But they are the suspects , and could quite easily come to Britain and explain where they were and what they were doing on those dates

Why would any potentially innocent individual feel the need to voluntarily travel to a country which has a somewhat dubious recent history of incarcerating its own citizens on spurious charges , to say the least , and then mistreating them without adhering to the Human Rights Act (1998) ?

If we cannot afford British citizens a fair and decent trial what chance would a foreign national have ?

Well that’s fine , if these two people don’t think they can trust the British legal system ( imo the best and fairest in the world )
And if Putin refuses to extradite then to Britain to stand trial then Britain cannot allow anyone from Russia to come to Britain
It’s too risky as we know they are not prepared to accept the legal process here and can commit any crime in Britain no matter how barbaric and feel they can get away with it and not have to answer for it

So until , and unless these two suspects are extradited , and the two suspects wanted for the murder of litvenko are extradited then no one from Russia should be allowed to set foot on British soil

Ok with that ?

I wonder how Melanie Shaw's ongoing battle with our wonderful British legal system is going ?
I'm only curious because the mainstream media has yet to pick up on one of the gravest miscarriages of justice of the decade !

It’s like this , if I am not going to compare for example the British legal system to any other country in the world , especially Russia
If Russians are not going to accept that they are answerable to Britain and our courts
Then they should not be allowed into Britain

Ok with that ?

Yeah no problem m8 .
Basically when claiming the British legal system as being the best and fairest in the world , it's in comparison with Russia .
Well , in my opinion they have a lot of similarities in that they are amongst the most corrupt legal systems in the so-called 'free world' .
But our corrupt judiciary is better than their corrupt judiciary
I'm not gonna disagree with that .

That’s good , if we have to put up with our legal system then so can someone from Russia
If they are not prepared to do so , don’t let them into the country

( at least until these 2 and the 2 suspects in the Litvenko case are extradited

That seems to me to be a good arrangement

You know it would save a lot of trouble and cost , and maybe even a few deaths

I reserve the right to disagree with you regarding your last 2 posts based on previous discussions on this , and other threads .

Ms Sturgess may be alive today and her partner and the Shripals not cruelly poisoned if the British government had taken this line following the Litvenko death

Nevertheless it would send  the right message to Putin and Russia and every Russian citizen
You are not allowed to set foot in Britain , why ?

Because you can’t be trusted and that should remain the case until these suspects are extradited
and the Litvenko suspects also

is I don’t give two hoots what you disagree with ,
I have only to read the nonsense you have posted here today

What was it you disagreed with again ?
Oh it’s ok , I’m sure it will make little sense

Maybe , given the number of British civilians murdered by Islamic extremists we should seriously consider not allowing any more muslim immigrants from setting foot in this country .
Interesting how it takes the death of just ONE british citizen (allegedly) at the hands of a foreign agency for this drastic move to be considered , yet hundreds of british civilians including many children have been murdered by known islamists and yet still we allow them to pour into our country unchecked !
Just about sums up some peoples priorities .......

I may well agree , that’s a different subject

We are talking about Putin and Russia and the suspects that Britain has asked to be extradited , ( Litvenko )
And this case 2 more possible Russian suspects

That’s all , now if they are not prepared to be accountable for their actions in Britain
And their is no way of getting putin to extradite
Then as I say , dont let any Russians into Britain ,

That’s all , I really don’t see why you should have a problem with that
Maybe you do maybe you don’t , you seem to think you are disagreeing
But it’s not clear why

Abramovic has already been barred from entering the country and he is a positive addition to the economy !

And what proof do we really have that there was any Russian involvement ?

I want them to stand trial if they are suspects in a murder case
I would want anyone British to stand trial as well   , I don’t see why Russians should be exempt from British justice if British people are not
I don’t care that they are Russian or British  I want them extradited and tried in a British court
The same as any other murder suspect in Britain

There is no evidence of Russian involvement with the exception of lies fed to the public via the media .

do you know Reynard , I am not prepared to take your word for that

I would rather it went to trial in a British court , is that ok ?

So would we all

I take your point regarding suspects being tried in a British court .
However , given the injustices carried out in the name British justice over recent years , I have little or no faith in such a process being fair . We are governed by an establishment steeped in corruption that wouldn't hesitate to use the British legal system to convict innocent people , using fake evidence and fake statements and fake forensics , in order to keep those responsible from facing justice .

Sounds like the core of American life there Rey

I don’t care , that is neither here nor there if that is what you believe
I am sorry if you or anyone else is a suspect then you can spout that all day abd every day

You are still standing trial in a British court , just like everyone else

I have stood trial in a British court and was the victim of a miscarriage of justice due to the police deleting and destroying evidence that would probably have returned a verdict of not guilty . These are facts that I can prove but apparently I have no recourse to justice !

I don’t doubt it for one minute that mistakes are made, and sometimes injustices ,  well it’s very simple
If you as a British citizen have to be subject to the law , in all its aspects
Then so does anyone else , including these Russian murder suspects

If perhaps you feel we shouldn’t send murder suspects to trial ever again because you got a dodgy speeding fine ?

I’m sorry I don’t think you are making much sense

That is your choice , however I would like to know why you refer to a dodgy speeding fine . Was that aimed at me ?

oh for heavens sake , no it’s not about you or anyone else

because you got a dodgy speeding fine

I'm not the one who used the word "you" ........

Apology accepted but please don't make assumptions in future in order to trivialise something that you have no knowledge of

you’re not very honest are you Reynard.  , now you are going to play the victim just because you can’t follow a logical sentence
I don’t think there’s any point in continuing ,
People like you are quite untrustworthy and sneeky  with it in that way

All the best

Nothing to do about being a victim . I was just countering your argument that the British legal system is the 'best and fairest in the world' .
I used anecdotal evidence as to why I dispute your statement .
'Not very honest' 'untrustworthy' 'sneaky' ???? Strange words to direct at someone you don't know unless it is your way of shutting down dialogue involving a subject matter that you are unfamiliar with and feel unable to defend your position given facts presented to you in good faith .

Let me explain because you are either incapable or pretending not to understand something that shouldn’t need an explanation

I used the term speeding find because I didn’t want to be musty and inquire what the offence was

That would be offensive and rude so I used a trivial offence as an example
To imply I didn’t think for one minute that it would be anything serious

Now do you understand , it was a compliment , to you
You prat

Now I assumed you would have understood that without having it explained to you

I really can’t be bothered to have to explain ,
If you didn’t understand you are stupid

If you did you are dishonest and sneeky and playing the victim

Which is it ?

You prat

Another clear indication that reasoned and rational debate is no longer a viable option .

Interpreted as " I haven't got a hope in hell of winning this debate so I'll throw in a load of abusive insults and hope to bring my superior foe down to my gutter level in order to gain some kudos" .

Nice attempt , but I'm too smart to be drawn in my friend

Followed by a further re-iteration of earlier abuse in an attempt to justify the more recent abuse .

It wont work , you're too far down the intellectual food chain for me to seriously bother with

Ah yes , I see that dishonest and sneeky and playing the victim was a fair assessment

No problem , like I said , apology accepted

you’re welcome