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Veganism has been described as the fastest growing lifestyle movement. For some concern about animal welfare leads them to actively campaign against all forms of the meat industry. But are some of those activists taking it too far?
"When you're being called murderers and rapists, that is overstepping the mark, for fairly obvious reasons," says Alison Waugh, a trainee farmer in Northumberland.
She has received death threats due to her work and told the Victoria Derbyshire programme other farmers are feeling threatened.
"Which is quite ironic from people that want peace for animals, but then they tell you, 'I hope you and your family go die in a hole for what you do,'" she says.
"You've got people storming the meat mart, spraying graffiti...that's when it's not OK, when you've got people worrying if their cows are going to be safe tonight."
One activist group is called the Save Movement, which says it has a non-violent approach to campaigning. It has 42 groups in the UK and 100 worldwide.
Its activists hold vigils outside abattoirs and aim to turn the world vegan by sharing images on social media of the animals' treatment.
Bear witness
Lead activist and Instagram star Joey Carbstron and his team wait for hours until trucks of animals are on the move in order to, as they put it, "bear witness" to what the creatures experience.
Joel, a vegan campaigner
Image caption
A video shot by Joey was seen by 17,000 people
"These days we have tech like iPhones, we can bring their faces out to the public and say, 'This is where your food comes from'. We get people to connect with the animals," he says.
There have also been cases of activists standing in the meat aisles of supermarkets with graphic images and noises of animals being slaughtered.
During filming for this programme, they saw an opportunity to take their protest a step further.
At a slaughterhouse in Liverpool, some activists decided to trespass on the property when the pigs were not brought through the front entrance.
Police were called and escorted them off the property, following a tense argument between protestors and workers.
The footage was spread across the Save Movement Facebook and Instagram accounts. It had 17,000 views on Joey's YouTube and 4,500 shares.
'Cannot sleep'
The Vegan Society describes veganism as "the fastest-growing lifestyle movement," with demand for vegan and vegetarian food increasing ten-fold last year.
Research by Ipsos Mori in 2016 suggested at least 542,000 people - or 1.05% of the 15-and-over population in England, Scotland and Wales - were following a vegan diet.
Vegan campaigner holding a placard
Ten years earlier the estimated number of vegans was just 150,000.
The society says it does not condone any illegal activity, but provides evidence-based information on issues related to veganism. It is currently funding academic research to understand what prevents people from being vegan and how best to make them change.
But some vegan activists are calling farmers who have raised animals for generations murderers for killing animals, or rapists for taking their milk.
The National Pig Association claims its members "cannot sleep at night" because Save Movement members have allegedly turned up at farms and slaughterhouses at night.
The Association of Independent Meat Suppliers has met with the official National Counter Terrorism Police Operations Centre team to discuss how to respond to the movement.
Alison says she objects to the suggestion that farmers exploit their animals. "It's crushing when you take as much pride in your animals as we do.
"I don't think they can understand, or differentiate between the fact that different animals have different purposes. We have these companion animals and we have our livestock and there is a line drawn there."
'Sick society'
But Joey disagrees with the UK's reputation as caring about animals.
"Their actions don't reflect that. When they buy a chicken breast, that was torn off an animal that didn't want to die. We can't love animals whilst we're consuming their flesh or paying for them to go into a slaughterhouse," he says.
"Slaughterhouse workers are a product of a sick society who want to consume animal flesh."
He denies being an extremist, saying that people have to understand that what is happening to animals is extreme.
"If it were dogs in there, people's pet dogs, they'd be helping us, the public would be helping us stop those trucks, the public would be trespassing too."
But Alison says the farmers will not take their action lightly.
"There is an attack on the industry, and that is an attack on me, people like me, my family. We will forever eat animals and I'll keep fighting for this industry as long as I can," she says.
Watch the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme on weekdays between 09:00 and 11:00 on BBC Two and the BBC News channel.
"When you're being called murderers and rapists, that is overstepping the mark, for fairly obvious reasons," says Alison Waugh, a trainee farmer in Northumberland.
She has received death threats due to her work and told the Victoria Derbyshire programme other farmers are feeling threatened.
"Which is quite ironic from people that want peace for animals, but then they tell you, 'I hope you and your family go die in a hole for what you do,'" she says.
"You've got people storming the meat mart, spraying graffiti...that's when it's not OK, when you've got people worrying if their cows are going to be safe tonight."
One activist group is called the Save Movement, which says it has a non-violent approach to campaigning. It has 42 groups in the UK and 100 worldwide.
Its activists hold vigils outside abattoirs and aim to turn the world vegan by sharing images on social media of the animals' treatment.
Bear witness
Lead activist and Instagram star Joey Carbstron and his team wait for hours until trucks of animals are on the move in order to, as they put it, "bear witness" to what the creatures experience.
Joel, a vegan campaigner
Image caption
A video shot by Joey was seen by 17,000 people
"These days we have tech like iPhones, we can bring their faces out to the public and say, 'This is where your food comes from'. We get people to connect with the animals," he says.
There have also been cases of activists standing in the meat aisles of supermarkets with graphic images and noises of animals being slaughtered.
During filming for this programme, they saw an opportunity to take their protest a step further.
At a slaughterhouse in Liverpool, some activists decided to trespass on the property when the pigs were not brought through the front entrance.
Police were called and escorted them off the property, following a tense argument between protestors and workers.
The footage was spread across the Save Movement Facebook and Instagram accounts. It had 17,000 views on Joey's YouTube and 4,500 shares.
'Cannot sleep'
The Vegan Society describes veganism as "the fastest-growing lifestyle movement," with demand for vegan and vegetarian food increasing ten-fold last year.
Research by Ipsos Mori in 2016 suggested at least 542,000 people - or 1.05% of the 15-and-over population in England, Scotland and Wales - were following a vegan diet.
Vegan campaigner holding a placard
Ten years earlier the estimated number of vegans was just 150,000.
The society says it does not condone any illegal activity, but provides evidence-based information on issues related to veganism. It is currently funding academic research to understand what prevents people from being vegan and how best to make them change.
But some vegan activists are calling farmers who have raised animals for generations murderers for killing animals, or rapists for taking their milk.
The National Pig Association claims its members "cannot sleep at night" because Save Movement members have allegedly turned up at farms and slaughterhouses at night.
The Association of Independent Meat Suppliers has met with the official National Counter Terrorism Police Operations Centre team to discuss how to respond to the movement.
Alison says she objects to the suggestion that farmers exploit their animals. "It's crushing when you take as much pride in your animals as we do.
"I don't think they can understand, or differentiate between the fact that different animals have different purposes. We have these companion animals and we have our livestock and there is a line drawn there."
'Sick society'
But Joey disagrees with the UK's reputation as caring about animals.
"Their actions don't reflect that. When they buy a chicken breast, that was torn off an animal that didn't want to die. We can't love animals whilst we're consuming their flesh or paying for them to go into a slaughterhouse," he says.
"Slaughterhouse workers are a product of a sick society who want to consume animal flesh."
He denies being an extremist, saying that people have to understand that what is happening to animals is extreme.
"If it were dogs in there, people's pet dogs, they'd be helping us, the public would be helping us stop those trucks, the public would be trespassing too."
But Alison says the farmers will not take their action lightly.
"There is an attack on the industry, and that is an attack on me, people like me, my family. We will forever eat animals and I'll keep fighting for this industry as long as I can," she says.
Watch the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme on weekdays between 09:00 and 11:00 on BBC Two and the BBC News channel.
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They'll be shrieking 'victim' soon enough if one of their targets turns and fights back, like them fracking protesters and the tree huggers in Sheffield.
No punches have been thrown as far as I know, and they're perfectly entitled to protest.
My brother is vegan but he despises the political faction.
Sounds as if he's a vegan for health purposes. How any compassionate vegan could condemn the political faction is beyond me.
ps, I'm not vegan.
ps, I'm not vegan.
They advocate harassment, even violence, against people who are legally employed. If enough people want it, a government will one day make eating meat illegal.
lots of them are professional campaigners, some are not even vegans 1.01
Yet just another case of the minorty in this country trying pass it's views on the majority
They actually think they are the majority, a bit like the brexit folk.
No they don't think their the majority but think their right
If enough people want it, a government will one day make eating meat illegal. (Italics not working)
9
No need to make it illegal. Just make it illegal to treat them like ****. Oh it is, sorry. Doesn't work though.
9
No need to make it illegal. Just make it illegal to treat them like ****. Oh it is, sorry. Doesn't work though.
Vast majority of the population are in favour of assisted suicide as they are the legalisation of selling some drugs with the collection of taxes on said product
kenny mann 29 Jan 18 17:27 Joined: 29 Apr 10 | Topic/replies: 36,146 | Blogger: kenny mann's blog
Got to admire these people.
Yes, let's admire these ill informed extremists who obstruct the legal meat production that feeds you and your cats.
Got to admire these people.
Yes, let's admire these ill informed extremists who obstruct the legal meat production that feeds you and your cats.
Many animal products aren't produced in this country now, because the rules are too strict for our people to compete with those from abroad whose rules are far more lax.
The result is more animal cruelty not less.
The result is more animal cruelty not less.
These are just professional protestors/idiots and should be treated with contempt.
Nobody who cares about animals should be treated with contempt, just those that don't.
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charwell.
charwell.
31 Jan 18 04:32
Joined: 28 Sep 04
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kenny mann 29 Jan 18 17:27 Joined: 29 Apr 10 | Topic/replies: 36,146 | Blogger: kenny mann's blog
Got to admire these people.
Yes, let's admire these ill informed extremists who obstruct the legal meat production that feeds you and your cats.
Not as ill informed as the poor punters who followed your football tips in the press. They were a joke and you were a laughing stock on the footy forum.
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charwell.
charwell.
31 Jan 18 04:32
Joined: 28 Sep 04
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kenny mann 29 Jan 18 17:27 Joined: 29 Apr 10 | Topic/replies: 36,146 | Blogger: kenny mann's blog
Got to admire these people.
Yes, let's admire these ill informed extremists who obstruct the legal meat production that feeds you and your cats.
Not as ill informed as the poor punters who followed your football tips in the press. They were a joke and you were a laughing stock on the footy forum.
THeres plenty of people who care about animals without resorting to behaving like thugs.
There's plenty of people who "think" they care about animals,who love their dog, or enjoy wildlife programmes, but in actual fact are contributing to animal cruelty by buying their pack of bacon etc, from supermarkets each week without researching how the animal has been treated, and in many cases it's abysmally.
So the way you "prove" it is to threaten violence to people carrying out a legal business that the vast majority of people use and support which makes a large contribution to our economy.
That's probably only a small percentage. I could be wrong. Have you got any stats?
In the meantime the vast majority of people will continue to consume animals kept in this condition. Disgusting.
.
.
Particularly as pigs are such intelligent, curious creatures.
That photo distresses me, but most couldn't give a fk, or are unaware.
That photo distresses me, but most couldn't give a fk, or are unaware.
Of course to keep animals in such conditions is now illegal in the EU, but many flout the law.
Indeed kenny. I dont disagree that its very few but those are the only ones I am talking about. Most vegans are principled people who have made a decision based on their beliefs and care for animals and are to be applauded.
I doubt that many would defend the sort of people we are talking about here whose motives are questionable at best.
I doubt that many would defend the sort of people we are talking about here whose motives are questionable at best.
Kenny,how if you are so concerned with animal welfare does your conscience allow you to benefit from a race when maybe a horse is fatally injured,helping you to collect? The veggies and vegans i know demonstrate against the sport.
I proudly wore a 'vegetarians against the nazis' badge on a march in the 70s during the old ANL days.
hope this helps
hope this helps
I suspect these nutters are also against angling but without anglers who would protect the welfare of the fish and the environment in which they live ?
Not a good point at all. Sick of answering that question. But I will.I'm a semi pro gambler, and a good percentage of my winnings goes to animal charities. My main income is on horse racing, which would continue whether I played on horses or not. Plus, the horses are not intentionally mistreated, unlike the meat from the animals that you probably consume.
But if the horse hadn't been racing it would not get injured...........still at least it goes back into the food chain as dog food or lasagna! Bit like pigs and cows really !
Kenny is the worlds biggest hypocrite.
He eats meat. His cats eat meat. He indulges in the nags.
Yet supports activist groups like PETA.
That's how principled this soap box drama queen is.
He eats meat. His cats eat meat. He indulges in the nags.
Yet supports activist groups like PETA.
That's how principled this soap box drama queen is.
Oh and dubiously has defended the likes of Saville, Max Clifford and Rolf Harris.
Make of that what you will.
Make of that what you will.
Any radical movement, whether religious, ideological, sporting or political is bad.
Much of it is tribalism massively assisted by social media.
Much of it is tribalism massively assisted by social media.
Thanks for the reply and very heartwarming to hear you chuck the animal charities a few quid after benefiting from a possible fatality,a hypocrite with a conscience.
Dotchinite
Indeed kenny. I dont disagree that its very few but those are the only ones I am talking about. Most vegans are principled people who have made a decision based on their beliefs and care for animals and are to be applauded.
The problem is that whilst it is very few who are extremists they tend to attract the publicity and alienate people because of their actions.
To me we have to accept that meat is a major part of most peoples diet and to hit them with slogans like meat is murder etc etc is as I said counterproductive.
What we should be doing is building support for better conditions and a humane death when being slaughtered.
To do this we need to make people aware of the issues and let their consciences take over. Some won't give a f*ck and there is nowt you can do about it but hopefully enough will care.
Indeed kenny. I dont disagree that its very few but those are the only ones I am talking about. Most vegans are principled people who have made a decision based on their beliefs and care for animals and are to be applauded.
The problem is that whilst it is very few who are extremists they tend to attract the publicity and alienate people because of their actions.
To me we have to accept that meat is a major part of most peoples diet and to hit them with slogans like meat is murder etc etc is as I said counterproductive.
What we should be doing is building support for better conditions and a humane death when being slaughtered.
To do this we need to make people aware of the issues and let their consciences take over. Some won't give a f*ck and there is nowt you can do about it but hopefully enough will care.
What we should be doing is building support for better conditions and a humane death when being slaughtered.
Agree with Aka and Kenny that this is the real issue. Meat is an international trade and a few tens of thousands turning vegan here will not make one jot of difference to the number of animals slaughtered.
Improving standards here and insisting on the same standards for all imports whether fresh meat or processed products is what we should be concerned about.
Agree with Aka and Kenny that this is the real issue. Meat is an international trade and a few tens of thousands turning vegan here will not make one jot of difference to the number of animals slaughtered.
Improving standards here and insisting on the same standards for all imports whether fresh meat or processed products is what we should be concerned about.
Feb 1, 2018 -- 1:53PM, kenny mann wrote:
Particularly as pigs are such intelligent, curious creatures. That photo distresses me, but most couldn't give a fk, or are unaware.
They'never had it so good.
it's getting folk who eat meat to spend more on meat products reared in the best possible way .... as far as i'm aware and seen ,our pigs get the best treatment and conditions ...same with chickens kept in proper housing with space to roam .. free range eggs and not barn eggs for example ...some stores also have a better record with animal welfare than others too .
the problem is most folk who buy meat/milk/eggs want it at the cheapest price and don't care where it is sourced ...once the trade is beyond our borders there is no telling how animals are treated . Who even looks at the labels on packaging ?
It's a job getting folk to become veggie ... it was easy for me years ago as i couldn't stand the taste/texture of meat to start with as a child
to others i swear it is the biggest thing in their life
the problem is most folk who buy meat/milk/eggs want it at the cheapest price and don't care where it is sourced ...once the trade is beyond our borders there is no telling how animals are treated . Who even looks at the labels on packaging ?
It's a job getting folk to become veggie ... it was easy for me years ago as i couldn't stand the taste/texture of meat to start with as a child
to others i swear it is the biggest thing in their life
from experience of my time at any animal rights protest i would say the hard core vegans look down on the veggies as much as anyone - they are very fierce in their beliefs about diary consumption .. i fell out with more than a few .
Fox hunting also is a massive no no for them
Fox hunting also is a massive no no for them
Dairy is probably more stressful than meat production.
The cows are pushed well beyond what nature intended to produce enormous quantities of milk, calves are slaughtered and the cow is eventually slaughtered when milk output slows.
The cows are pushed well beyond what nature intended to produce enormous quantities of milk, calves are slaughtered and the cow is eventually slaughtered when milk output slows.
It may well be true that British pigs have never had it so good, but the bacon sandwich many people tuck into could well come from pigs kept like those in the photo above.
While you can buy meat at the butcher's counter that is British (although I've noticed several English people buying from the Halal butcher's next door) most of the pre packed which the majority buy from the shelves, as opposed to going to the butcher's counter, says produced in the UK from EU meat, so they could well be buying from countries who are flouting the sow stall ban.
While you can buy meat at the butcher's counter that is British (although I've noticed several English people buying from the Halal butcher's next door) most of the pre packed which the majority buy from the shelves, as opposed to going to the butcher's counter, says produced in the UK from EU meat, so they could well be buying from countries who are flouting the sow stall ban.
and there were 6 such countries a couple of years ago.
all deceitful packaging kennyman 
good points foinavon ..dairy is a bad one which is why we veggies are in NO position to lecture ...vegans have the upper hand in that situation def ... the prob with the hard core vegans was them having a go at meat eating folk on any rights protest ...it was a tricky one as you want the numbers and fave general public opinion not just 'fanatics' on board
eating meat isn't a natural grumble of mine tbf ,it's the method of production ..and i don't think EU meat or milk for that matter is good from a welfare angle .... there have been massive improvements over the years in the UK ...
good points foinavon ..dairy is a bad one which is why we veggies are in NO position to lecture ...vegans have the upper hand in that situation def ... the prob with the hard core vegans was them having a go at meat eating folk on any rights protest ...it was a tricky one as you want the numbers and fave general public opinion not just 'fanatics' on board
eating meat isn't a natural grumble of mine tbf ,it's the method of production ..and i don't think EU meat or milk for that matter is good from a welfare angle .... there have been massive improvements over the years in the UK ...
I'm not really big on eating meat eating, I can take it or leave it, and pork/bacon is certainly not a favourite of mine. Trouble is that there are are so many people in the world and the only way to cater for so many is intensive farming. It's a tough one to call.
Kenny, I recall seeing documentaries of live animals being exported to Europe and wasn't an activist accidentally killed during a protest? (maybe your memory is better than mine on that score).
Perhaps this is an area to be looked at when we leave the single market next year?
Perhaps this is an area to be looked at when we leave the single market next year?
Foinavon - I think that was the continental veal trade in calves - our bull calves (by-product of the dairy industry) were exported to mainland Europe to satisfy the market for (crated) veal. This probably still goes on a bit, but with the popularity and wide acceptance of rose veal, most bull calves are raised for this purpose, either by the dairy farmers themselves, or through UK specialists.
Thanks for that, Blackbarn. There was something in the back of my mind about this which was bothering me.
Cross-border trade in live animals is obviously allowed by EU regulations, this could be changed when we take back control of our laws in this area.
Cross-border trade in live animals is obviously allowed by EU regulations, this could be changed when we take back control of our laws in this area.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/eat-british-veal-with-a-clear-conscience-says-rspca-899778.html
Dating from 2008 but relevant to the debate. I will add that rose veal is absolutely delicious, and if you drink milk it is almost obligatory.
Dating from 2008 but relevant to the debate. I will add that rose veal is absolutely delicious, and if you drink milk it is almost obligatory.
Agree with that. Supermarkets, though don't seem to stock veal (not that I've noticed) yet they all have a whole aisle of dairy products. Perhaps there ought to be a requirement for all sellers of dairy to put veal on offer.
Foinavon - nearly all supermarkets hereabouts sell rose veal I think. Well Waitrose, Sainsburys, Tesco and M+S do. There could be regional differences but can't think why. Plenty of dairy herds oop north and in Scotland
Do we export veal? Must have plenty spare. I think there was a ban by importing countries, but that's besides my point/question.
Someone will know, but not sure the UK has ever exported much "veal" other than in calf form. We have never really gone for that pale veal so loved on the continent and quite rightly we generally now abhor the methods of producing it.
ok, thanks. Was just thinking if it was exported, would destroy all the ethical claims.
Sometimes Kenny, you just can't find what you hope to find.
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