The homeless

still waiting for the welcher to pay up

It's not surprising there are more homeless people, we keep letting more poor people arrive here to add to their problems.

Out of interest, what are the numbers ?

The tories are right. Nobody deserves to be poor.

bring back the draft.

half of those sleeping on the streets in london are foreigners

That is not surprising as the 2011 census showed 37% of London's population is foreign born.

"When the bucket's full, turn off the tap" ;)

not foreign born  - foreigners

one in 200 homeless

Let's all hope that no-one has become homeless or a member of the 'undeserving poor' all because a cowardly bet-welcher failed to pay out on a bet.

Good argument, except for one tiny fact. Benefit sanctions do not affect rent. If you are sanctioned, only the personal allowance element is reduced.

Mr 22-don't just turn off the tap.  Pull out the plug, get the plunger and force them out!

Well Dr Slicer, there is always that option!

when the kensington chelsea mp lost his seat

Tories  threw money at him

Spent the day in Brighton and was amazed how many Men and Women were begging and sleeping rough,as a human being its heartbreaking to see,loads of them young as well, its impossible to give to them all not matter how much you'd want to.

No Matter.

Easier than you think to become homeless if you don't have a strong support network...lose your job then lose your home and bang there you go...ho help from the council for a single man. In and around the parks of our city centre (or any bit of grass) they are there with their pop-up tents.

In Newcastle, they had a multi-agency swoop on the homeless and street beggars. Police, social workers, health workers, the lot, all got together and pulled in everybody on the streets to find out what the problems were and how to help these people. What they found was atrocious. Appalling. Terrible.

97% of them were not homeless and begged because it was easier than working. Some even drove down from Scotland to avail themselves of the free money.

Will you be getting back to us with confirmation of these record numbers, Pandora?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11681593/Police-survey-finds-just-one-in-10-beggars-are-homeless.html

5 out of 52 beggars are were homeless in this survey.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/02/heres-why-you-should-never-give-money-to-beggars-by-homelessness-charity-5728698/


The issue I find is a lot of people on the streets have alcohol and drug abuse problems. Been abused and or have PTSD or both. When offered a place to stay people find it hard to stick to the rules on drugs and alcohol so cannot stay.

It is very hard to help people who cannot help themselves and who have no family or their family has given up on them.

I think most of the real homeless are invisible tbf, families tucked away in lodgings or hostels. As said above, many street beggars are just doing it for a living.

Nov 25, 2017 -- 8:30PM, Shab wrote:

In Newcastle, they had a multi-agency swoop on the homeless and street beggars. Police, social workers, health workers, the lot, all got together and pulled in everybody on the streets to find out what the problems were and how to help these people. What they found was atrocious. Appalling. Terrible.97% of them were not homeless and begged because it was easier than working. Some even drove down from Scotland to avail themselves of the free money.

YES!
For some, begging is a career-option. And that's a real shame for those who really do need help because I for one don't want to know about them. Sure, I don't begrudge giving to registered charities but those on the street? And chuggers? Forget it.

''Spare the price of a cup of tea for an old soldier Sir?

Gawd bless yer governa''

Nov 26, 2017 -- 5:10AM, Dr Crippen wrote:

''Spare the price of a cup of tea for an old soldier Sir?Gawd bless yer governa''

Says he, reeking of cheap cider. Hic!

Apple cider is good for asthma apparently. Keeps out the cold as well.

will only get worse as universal credit is rolled out,landlords not been paid directly,tennants in charge of benefit money etc,etc

I didn't know that.

Some landlords have put all of its LHA tenants on notice of eviction, in anticipation of them getting into rent arrears over UC.

So they can nip it in the bud without wasting time waiting for the arrears to mount up.
Of course if the rent is paid on time they won't enforce the eviction notices.

common sense that to people at the bottom struggling will pay 4 weeks of weekly bills food,school ,kids,lecky,gas etc 1st and worry about a monthly bill [housing costs on which they may get a bit of grace], 2nd
but don't expect mp,s with no experience of living hand to mouth to remotely understand this

Hundreds of houses made available for immigrants in Scotland.
Obviously at the expense of our 'own' homeless. Justifiable?

Spiv culture in action

do you mean those spiv roma at marble arch?

I could see this and so many of our other problems coming - as predicted by me on this very forum about 10 years ago.

We are heading back to Victorian Britain. It's only a matter of time before we get workhouses and debtor's prisons.
The poorest will be able to get work in service to the wealthy, healthcare and education will be curtailed except for those who can afford it.
The worst aspects of the class system will return.

It's not the fault of other people, it's the fault of government.

Didn't see a single homeless person in Southampton today,honest!

Does that mean there aren't any?

was it reading last week where theres camps set up in the subways ,underpasses,getting like the jungle in france

Never said there wasn't Studyform,none on the streets today,maybe they were xmas shopping...

anxious
Spiv culture in action

So you think that wanting existing residents housed before immigrants is 'spiv culture'.

i never said that , any way worse could follow so called scum villages have been built in Holland , you have all been warned 

Holland now regretting taking so many immigrants in.
Crime soaring, especially of a sexual nature, and 'no-go' areas now in the hundreds.

Britain deals with failed asylum claims by informing the migrant their claim has failed and advising them of the timescale they have to leave the country. They cannot claim public funds or legally work and are expected to make their own arrangements to get out of the UK. As a generalisation we don't deport , unless they do a crime.
Germany is rather different where they are given a couple of thousand Euro to leave, and their border force will get involved if you don't.

So which approach is best - the tolerant UK one which results in the failed claimants not leaving when they should and sleeping rough with occasional help from friends, the religious community and the Red Cross.
- or the approach of get oot of ze fatherland now you pig dog economic migrant , and take these euro wiz you for ze bahn ticket
- Or the Norway one which is in the news this week, of deportation and no money

One of the best ways to reduce homelessness (or more specifically the homelessness statistics) is for it to become illegal for people to give money to beggars.

This is because there are a substantial number of professional beggars working the streets everyday especially in crowded areas such as London. Some are making literally hundreds of pounds a day and upwards of 50k a year from the practice, there are untold stories you can find via google, also I'm pretty sure there are also sophisticated networks who are using/controlling a number of immigrant women to fund their own lifestyles, the ratio of women beggars to rough women sleepers is a tell tale sign as are the dogs that are usually accompanied by male beggars, quite a few have very healthy looking dogs that look like they've been handpicked from Cruffs.

By making giving money to beggars illegal, you will be left with the real homeless people and a truer picture of the state/scale of the problem, the current figure given is no doubt highly and artificially inflated.

There should be a government led campaign to highlight this issue that also includes advice on giving only food to beggars, homeless people that turn down food and only want money are more than likely, not legitimate, either that, or they want to fund a drink/drug habit which is clearly not what someone would want to do when handing over money. It will also discourage any potential Professional beggar/begging Lords in the future.

A holding camp whilst we process and then instant deportation.
Why should we give them money other than paying for their flight.

Talking of beggars , alchohol , food etc  is the house of lords still paying 300 quid a day once they check in for a few brandies and a sausage roll

Amazing how much hatred there is for beggars but nobody seems bothered about the thieving that goes on by the banks , the square mile and the billionaire tax avioders

Glazier's

yes them too and abramovich and Sheiky mansour

I'm astonished there aren't more of them

The reason anxious is that the thread is about the homeless.
Beggars were brought in as most of them come from the homeless ranks.

It would get a bit tiring if we had to mention everything that is not right about the world when debating any issues.

Why not start individual thread about them.

a lot of the genuine homeless have mental heath issues and need help ,they are often hidden in society - maybe sleeping over parks , a bit like the old school tramps wh owould rumage for food....but most don't like asking for help - many can't face  real life and having to deal with issues /talk to folk ,  they are at great risk of having benefits sanctioned if they even claim at all ... they are maybe on JSA and not on mental health listings but are wholly unsuitable for work   .

A lot of the ones you see on the streets in towns and cities   are very often operating in a a different league  - some are working on behalf of the Alpha male beggars  ,getting the prime spots , getting folk to feel sorry for them (usually with a  dog) often  looking for drug money  and have somewhere to stay - or have been evicted because of the drug  use.

These folk know the strings - well versed in hands out ,what to claim and how to claim it .

like everyday life ...  it's a case of those who shout the loudest get the best deal

Good points made their coach , there are blaggers who milk the system in every walk of life , we only have to look at the rich and powerful and what a wonderful example they set for everybody else.

Good post Coach. The problem is how can the rest of society help those type of people?

leave them alone and stop hassling them

AS WELL as headlining affordable housing thery should also add decent housing,anyone over 50 can see streets which although at the bottom end of the market were once nice well presented streets looked after by the residents,now because of influx of an army of private BTL LANDLORDS, these streets are becoming an eyesore with neither the landlord or residents with any incentive or will to keep them tidy and well kept

indeed anxious . A problem i think is just handing out sums of cash for an apparent illness/disability - then that money is wasted on drugs ....  also when i go into the shops i have witnessed blokes just helping themselves to bottles of wine  (blatantly ),and i've looked at the assistant in a  bemused way and he just shrugs and says 'waste of time apprehending /police won't get involved because sums are small ' under £100 etc ....  then conversation turns to druggies /known to the police etc

Inside Trader .... it's always been an issue trying to connect with folk who themselves have fallen away from the system  ...the old tramps (don't see many these days- one in my town was set alight on purpose and died from his injuries ) were quite proud folk  and i never saw any begging and would accept food /coffee etc rather than just cash .... there are shelters  but some homeless don't feel safe there anyway .
There are housing groups but once again it often seems the folk who get rooms in these places  aren't the most deserving   .. anyone who has a genuine mental health problem is going to struggle getting a place at any rate or even feel safe in a shared house ...a lot of  mental health units have closed over the years .

It's quite a dismal outlook ...and 1st time poster  i agree about the streets situation  ... those once respectable streets have become ghettoes ,and it's spreading out

On Sat after strolling around Brighton with plenty of money in my pocket and a full stomach, and heading back to a lovely warm hotel, I felt a pang of guilt as I watch a few bedding down for the night.It brought me back to the time as a youngman when I had my own issues, as most do, as they struggle with life.Feeling that life really had no purpose,what was it all about, was a constant question I asked myself.Growing up in a foreign Country as England was for me at the time it felt all so different, few friends to help you through,little or no money,  a belief that everything was going to be fine was the bedrock that kept me going. I lived in a squat when I first arrived ,I was a hippie I kid you not.Free love was available thank God otherwise I don't know how I'd have coped,beautiful women of all Nations living in our community, then the bailiffs came and broke the toilets so we couldn't use them and we had to leave.Sleeping rough for a few days was not enjoyable and we were lucky it was Summer, so years on and walking home with plenty of money in my pocket and a full belly and warm bed to return too,seeing those poor people bedding down brought back some strange and disturbing memories for me.I don't know the answer to the homeless question,but like me some of those will find themselves and grow into good citizens with something to offer society, not everyone lives the straight and narrow course,sometimes it takes been knocked about till we come to our senses and grow to become the person we are today.

'growing up in a foreign country '
That shouldn't be allowed for a start , why are millions of people allowed into England ?
I don't know .

It is reprehensible to ignore the poor, who could deny that ?
deport them .

I don't mind English people living on the streets in England
No one who is English should fear that , poverty doesn't bother me

Lfc,as I have often stated on here,My Grandfather fought for your Country in India,my Father and his brothers fought in the 2ww for ye,my Uncle was a pow for 3yrs and my Brother fought in Aden for ye,I spent Many years as a child in England, I would safely say my family contributed more than most to Britain winning the war.But I'm Irish and proud...

workrider I'm sorry you are right to be proud
However the vast majority of your present Irish countrymen have nothing to be proud off in their attitude to England
Not then during our greatest danger , and not now in our negotiations with the EU

It's not the fault of other people, it's the fault of government.

No that's wrong, people vote for free stuff and they keep voting for immigration.

The homelessness is simply a consequence of what we've voted for.

One man's free council house and benefits, is another man's sleeping on a park bench.

There are now too many people living in the UK.

convicted paedophiles let out back out in society have to be housed above anyone else