Changes to Stamp Duty for FTBs

They are trying to help first time buyers at a given point in time, ie now, not at some future point in time when of course anythings possible.

The important thing about abolishing stamp duty for ftb is that they don't have to pay it, and neither does the seller.

That will tend to bring house prices down rather than as might be expected to push them up.

But lfc, the policy I suggest would help FTBs now.  They buy a house tomorrow, the Stamp Duty is payable by the vendor.

It seems almost a no-brainer to me. Maybe I haven't thought it through properly.

Yes that's the problem if the vender has to pay that duty now, he will put the price of his house up now to compensate
If the ftb doesn't pay  and the vender doesn't pay then the house price doesnt change .
Both th e ftb and the vender are happy

LFC - re your 15:18 post:

Under the current system the seller would pay Stamp Duty on the purchase price of his next home. Under my suggested system he would pay SD on the sales price of his current home (if over £125k) but not on the purchase of his new home.

15:26

Why? He's saving money! He's paying less SD if he's trading up!

if you've benefited from years of rising house prices and are cashing in, then I can't see a problem with paying a bit of extra tax.

Already covered by Capital Gains Tax.

Yes but he will be buying off someone who is also selling , that is the point .
That system would immediately put the price of buying the house up
If you stop duty for the ftb it won't .

No CGT on selling your main residence to downsize.

Dr C, CGT is only payable on second and additional homes, isn't it?

The house he is buying us dearer , the person selling that house is paying greater stamp duty when he sells , maybe to trade up ... this increase the selling price if each house in the chain if they have to pay stamp duty

That's correct Dotchinite.

You may say the vender is not paying stamp duty on the house he buys. but the seller is , and on a more expensive house .
That's the problem

That is more likely to push house prices up rather than stopping  stamp duty for ftb
The only way is if both the ftb and seller are not penalised .

Both can even benefit even if just a little bit, the ftb and the vender
By stopping duty for the ftb

LFC - as I see it, the only party who loses out is the person who is not moving up and is cashing in and buying a cheaper property but in all probability he will have benefited from years of rising prices and will not pay CGT if it is his primary residence.

I really don't understand your point.

Well in your system someone is selling a house and will have to pay tax on the value of that house
If trading up then the seller of that house will have to pay duty. and greater due to the greater house value
This will put the cost of both these properties up when they are sold,  immediately they are sold
Not at some future date or time .
That's no good for ftb

You see a ftb cares about the cost of the house now, he doesn't want it to go up in price ..  until after he has bought it

The only way the ftb can save money now, if he buys a house now, is if he doesn't gave to pay tax on that house ..now.

You see how can a seller afford to buy a new house , if he is getting less for his own house, and the one he is buying is more expensive ?

What about if the price for the house on sale is less than the vender paid for it?

And another on sale, might have had more money spent on improvements than the extra being asked.
So in practice be paying tax on money used for bringing the property up to scratch.

That wouldn't be very fair would it?

Would lead to far fewer property renovations.

The link in tax must be maintained to the house being bought , not sold , because there is a good chance that the seller is buying a more expensive house than the one he is selling.

What about brand new properties, who would pay the tax there?

If is better if there should be tax , that it is for the buyer to pay,
And ftb not to pay
That is if there should be any tax whatsoever
Once the tax is in the more expensive properties then that will filter down to the cost of the starter home.

When the buyer pays that gives ftb a slight advantage on new properties over people like landlords drC
That's good.

Well on any property actually : )

If the buyer doesn't pay who knows how many properties landlords might gather up if it is the vender duty ststem

If the link on tax is to to the house being sold  , and not the house being bought
This will increase house prices .. much more than stopping duty for ftb

Brand new properties:

A) Builder pays SD.

Or, (b) No SD. Reduced income to HMRC would be balanced by:

1) higher Corporation Tax take on increase in house builders' profits and

2) no loss of tax revenue on sales of FTB properties above £125k

The point is to try and help ftb.
The only way to do that is give them an advantage over other buyers
That means buyers have to pay stamp duty if they are not ftb

its human nature, but surely those selling well just be more  reluctant to knock anything of the price if they no the buyers arnt paying stamp duty .especialy if there moving themselves and paying stamp duty,obviously that leaves new builds, hard to believe that outside London buyers who are paying 150 grand or under cant haggle away the stamp duty on the cost price,numbers involved seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut once again, as with all these gimmicks in the south east rich people will just use family members to avoid stamp duty while adding a house to their portfolio

A) Builder pays SD.

Absolutely not - he'd simply include in in the selling price.

As a peaceful lgbt er I object and take a fence at the use of the violent word STAMP

thank you

Dr C, possibly but the price of new builds, like any property, are negotiable. Ultimately, the market decides.

No different, imo, to the situation which will prevail under the government's new rules where FTBs may have an extra £3k to play with. Again, the market decides.

Ultimately, the market decides.

Not always, if the margin of profit isn't there, or the buyers aren't there at the desired price the houses don't get built.

anyone who,s just bought must be gutted

If we tax landlords out of the new builds market. Prices won't drop to any significant extent.
What will happen is that fewer houses will get built.
And what does that mean in the long run if not higher prices?

I suppose in the end if you want to help first time buyers then this is just a small measure, but it is help targeted to them at least.

Yet another ill thought out ' sweetner ' from the deluded Tories.

I wonder if Saj reads the forum?

silly idea.  Sellers will increase their asking price to cover the tax and lenders will reduce the loan to value as they would have to pay the tax if they repossess and sell.

Sellers trading up would pay LESS than they do currently.

Not sure why you think that, but I thought the point was to help FTBs?

FTBs pay no SD because the liability is switched from the buyer to the seller.

If the selling price is £250k and and the seller is trading up to a £300k property, he pays SD on the price of the house he is selling, not the one he is purchasing, as he would under the current system.

FTBs pay no SD because the liability is switched from the buyer to the seller

I repeat the asking price will go up and the loan to value will fall as the effective value will be less.

If the selling price is £250k and and the seller is trading up to a £300k property, he pays SD on the price of the house he is selling, not the one he is purchasing, as he would under the current system.

The asking price will rise to cover the stamp duty.

In fact the more I think about it, this is obviously a tory stunt to create a house price rise, presumably to cover up the brexit fall.

FTB stamp duty is next to nothing anyway  ,only peeps who will benefit are rich first time buyers

FTB properties for NORMAL people ,80% of the population I class as normal (couples)  should be around 150-  160k . that is 23k x 3  21 x 3  plus 20k downpayment

no single person i know under 40 can afford to buy period ....and i don't mean a period property

So homeowners who have already paid Stamp Duty when buying would now have to pay it again when selling

Can't see what's fair about that