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These 108 comments are related to the topic:
The EU are taking the yellow snow colourant
The EU are taking the yellow snow colourant
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Replies: 108
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Dave I cannot see it.
I genuinely dont know where you have found your information. All I have is this scrap of detail: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/620409/Terms_of_reference_for_the_Article_50_negotiations_between_the_United_Kingdom_and_the_European_Union.pdf It does not contain all the points you are making and say Davies agreed to. |
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Pay nil, trade deal, exclude EU citizens.
The EU will come around to that position. |
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Or they won't, but agree that's what we should offer in the absence of a decent agreement.
If they want cash, let em chase us for it rather than cave in. |
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http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-caves-into
-eu-timetable-demand-on-first-day-of-brexit-talks-2017-6 Your link doesn't work split it into parts. |
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This all the official UK releases on Brexit:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/article-50-and-negotiations-with-the-eu Your link looks like an article rather than anything official but I will take a look and see. |
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Your article is the day after the terms of reference paper came out.
Nothing mentions about those three things needing to be concluded before trade talks. Davies himself said as much in your article. Where is the information saying Davies has to produce a document outlining what we will pay? How does that work... 1. Davies sends in a document saying £10bn They so no 2. Davies sends in a document saying £11bn They so no ? It could endless. I dont see that in the terms of reference. Where is it? |
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Also how can we concluded the Ireland issue before a trade deal is done.
For instance the border will look very different if we end up in a free trade/free movement of people deal compared to if he has no free movement and 5% tarriffs. |
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The UK has now agreed to enter talks on divorce proceedings, including Britain's exit bill and the border with Northern Ireland, before any talks on future trading relations can begin.
When asked why he had capitulated to EU demands, Davis replied that: "It's not when it starts. It's how it's concluded that matters." http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-caves-into-eu -timetable-demand-on-first-day-of-brexit-talks-2017-6 |
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re Ireland I conceded that about 50 posts ago - do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Also that isn't the stumbling block |
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"The UK has now agreed to enter talks on divorce proceedings, including Britain's exit bill and the border with Northern Ireland, before any talks on future trading relations can begin."
And here we are days later and you seem to agreeing with my original point, as does Davis. The sentence here is NOT "The UK has now agreed to complete and sign off agreements on divorce proceedings, including Britain's exit bill and the border with Northern Ireland, before any talks on future trading relations can begin." They've entered the talks. This thread is just sophistry as you try and justify blaming the Tories for obstacles thrown in front of the UK and Brexit by the EU. Whose side are you on? Doesn't appear to be the UK, it appears to be booze hound Junker and that arrogant bovine Merkel. |
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I am no at a loss with what you are going on about Dave.
We have started talks on those subjects as we agreed. So what is the problem? |
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Really roflcopters
From the article, the EU position: "early agreement on the rights of EU nationals living in the UK, the Brexit divorce bill and the Northern Irish border, before any discussions could begin on a trade deal". Davis has not produced any substantive proposals. He has not even pretended to produce any substantive proposals. That is why the talks have stalled. |
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Seriously!!!!!
You are basing the whole argument on an article where the writer (not an official) wrote: The EU had demanded early agreement on the rights of EU nationals living in the UK, the Brexit divorce bill and the Northern Irish border, before any discussions could begin on a trade deal. But this is not what happened! The UK did not agree to that demand. The UK agreed to start the talks off with those issues as the paper I linked to shows. Had the UK agreed an 'agreement' on Ireland before the trade deal it would be stupid as you agree. This is a case of you reading an article and a comment by the writer about a historical demand and getting the wrong end of the stick. |
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The EU have said themselves they want to see 'sufficient progress' to move onto trade. Not concluded settlements.
How they define that seems to be up to them. We cannot force them to talk trade with us. |
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Excellent work from Dave. He pitched against a dozen Brexiteers, more or less, and emerged with the one through line of reason. Winner.
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The EU want a large pile of money from us and we want a trade deal back. Why should we agree to give them a huge amount of money when we don't know what we'll get in return for it? Sod the EU, they are, as I say, taking the yellow stuff.
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The basis is "agreement" on the three issues - that doesn't need to be complete agreement. The EU conceded (that was an EU concession - why would they do that?) sufficient progress. Davis hasn't made any progress. He got the EU position papers, but hasn't produced UK position papers. He hasn't disputed the divorce bill. He hasn't done anything substantive.
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UB, Dave thinks we agreed to sign off on the 3 issues before we can talk trade because a writer thought that was something the EU asked for before the Terms of Reference were drawn up.
Do you agree with that analysis or do you think it is just 'sufficient progress' that is required? |
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EU want us to pay what they think we owe them PLUS probably treble that amount as a punishment for leaving, and a majority of people think we should just roll over & pay it
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David davis hasn't disputed the divorce bil? "Google is you friend". Go google that, there's a good lad.
You only get like 600,000 hits telling you you're wrong. |
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Is it any wonder that people say Brexiters are thick?
Where is Davis's position paper on the divorce bill? Where are his legal arguments about what is owed and not owed? That is the only thing that matters, not what he tells the Daily Fail when he's had a few. |
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pumphol where is your link to an EU official to back up that statement?
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Patronising people to try and shore up your obvious (and well founded) intellectual insecurities does not make your right. HTH.
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Think you probably want to look up the definition of "patronising", there's a good lad.
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Legally the UK doesn't have to pay the EU any money.
Don't pay them, let them take us to court. |
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Don't mention the border in Ireland also, if they have a proposal regarding that we might listen, otherwise they can pipe down.
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Don't mention the border in Ireland also, if they have a proposal regarding that we might listen, otherwise they can pipe down.
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rights of foreigners in Britain ?, they know already our position on that.
its got nothing to do with them. |
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now move onto trade deals.
which by the way should as a matter of principle not take any longer than 6 months, if it does walk away someone is taking the piss |
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There are some sad sights on the forum, but few sadder than lfc1971 talking to himself again.
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well as Trevino once said to Jacklin before trevino won the british open
when jacklin was in a sour mood, and said he didn't feel like talking Trevino said that's ok tony, I,ll talk you just listen |
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dave1357 16 Oct 17 20:12
pumphol where is your link to an EU official to back up that statement? Sorry Dave its an opinion, though I gather only yours really counts in the realm of things. |
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Jacklin should have won that Open, 1971 or 72 but for the greatest display of golf in the greatest tournament perhapsever by Trevino
remember that biscuits, Jacklin shouldn't have been rude. |
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dave1357
16 Oct 17 20:11 Joined: 05 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 5,963 | Blogger: dave1357's blog Is it any wonder that people say Brexiters are thick? Where is Davis's position paper on the divorce bill? Where are his legal arguments about what is owed and not owed? That is the only thing that matters, not what he tells the Daily Fail when he's had a few. What 'position paper' are you talking about? There is nothing mentioned of this in the terms of reference. It seems the EU has presented a bill and Davies' team are going through the lines. Where did you get this 'position paper' nonsense from? |
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It is ok to see a cluster of lfc1971 posts because you can just skip past them to the next interesting one.
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3. The following initial negotiating groups have been established:
Citizens' rights; Financial Settlement; Other Separation issues. In addition, a dialogue on Ireland / Northern Ireland has been launched under the authority of the Coordinators. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/ uploads/attachment_data/file/620409/Terms_of_reference_ for_the_Article_50_negotiations_between _the_United_Kingdom_and_the_European_Union.pdf |
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Yes Dave. Those are the initial groups.
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So what do you think "Financial Settlement" is about?
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poor biscuits, strange how interesting uninteresting things can become.
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oh i see what your "problem" is. If you look at the list of docs on the .gov link you will see a number of position documents etc. There doesn't appear to be any document about financial settlement. Why do you think that is?
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