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Wow what a series.
I just watched the whole series upto and including episode six within 24 hours.
Can't wait for the rest, this is the most comprehensive war doc I have ever seen.
36,000,000 helicopter sorties during the war.
Makes you wonder if the likes of trump have watched what happened in that part of the world and realises that only total and complete nuclear annihilation will 'win' such a conflict.
I just watched the whole series upto and including episode six within 24 hours.
Can't wait for the rest, this is the most comprehensive war doc I have ever seen.
36,000,000 helicopter sorties during the war.
Makes you wonder if the likes of trump have watched what happened in that part of the world and realises that only total and complete nuclear annihilation will 'win' such a conflict.
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N. Korea? I would hate that , how can I explain this seeming contradiction?
Well if you hold on a while then both regions will be much more sparse and spacious.
Though the water might be very radioactive.
Though the water might be very radioactive.
Wow!
I had to stop watching it as I have other things to do and do not want to be distracted! Great intro. Will relish watching more later!
I had to stop watching it as I have other things to do and do not want to be distracted! Great intro. Will relish watching more later!
What a surprise, leftie sides with the commies, neglects to mention how the program talked about the mass slaughter of innocents deliberately by the commies of women and children and the mass graves. And anyone who can say "finish off a load of villagers using agent orange chemical war weapons" clearly does not have a clue what they are talking about. It was a defoliant. It was intended to remove leaves.
I said there was very little between democracy and communism, other than the fact one tries harder to lie.
Both ideologies look after their own interests at the expense of others, which was also evidenced by the widescale destruction of villager's farms and home steads with chemicals that clearly wernt tested, they ruined the lives of all people they sprayed it on (and subsequent generations), those they were trying to defeat and those who were innocent.
Just as they used chemical weapons (napalm is a chemical weapon you know) with seemingly no remorse.
Agent orange contained dioxin, the most toxic chemical known to science.
Its just par for the course leaving those who make the decisions on the actions they take, to be the same ones who decide the copy that is delivered to act as reasoning.
They had form in lying and acting out crimes against humanity, ofc they were there just to do innocent weeding though im sure.
Both ideologies look after their own interests at the expense of others, which was also evidenced by the widescale destruction of villager's farms and home steads with chemicals that clearly wernt tested, they ruined the lives of all people they sprayed it on (and subsequent generations), those they were trying to defeat and those who were innocent.
Just as they used chemical weapons (napalm is a chemical weapon you know) with seemingly no remorse.
Agent orange contained dioxin, the most toxic chemical known to science.
Its just par for the course leaving those who make the decisions on the actions they take, to be the same ones who decide the copy that is delivered to act as reasoning.
They had form in lying and acting out crimes against humanity, ofc they were there just to do innocent weeding though im sure.
no difference between the communist societies and democratic societies ?
Well you have only to look at South Korea and North Korea
S. Korea may not be heaven but it is as close as we might see on earth.
N. Korea might not be hell but it is as close as we see to hell on earth.
Well you have only to look at South Korea and North Korea
S. Korea may not be heaven but it is as close as we might see on earth.
N. Korea might not be hell but it is as close as we see to hell on earth.
That is the sort of society that the Russians and Chinese created in NKorea
And the society that America helped create in S Korea.
Take your pick, in dustybins warped worldview there is no difference.
And the society that America helped create in S Korea.
Take your pick, in dustybins warped worldview there is no difference.
@dustybin."36,000,000 helicopter sorties during the war"...According to the General Statistics Of The Vietnam War the US flew around 1,899,688 sorties.
the vietnamese; a great bunch of lads.
Yes I am sure you might think so, dfms, but they are not so silly as to be impressed by that nonsense,
They don't respect that sort of thing , they despise it .
They don't respect that sort of thing , they despise it .
@culvin
All I can say to you is that this thread is about a documentary on the vietnam war, which after 1 min forty seconds into episode 6 gives the statement that
'vietnam was the first real helicotper war, helicopter pilots flew more than 36million sorties'
.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b097ts0d/the-vietnam-war-series-1-6-things-fall-apart-january-1968june-1968#
All I can say to you is that this thread is about a documentary on the vietnam war, which after 1 min forty seconds into episode 6 gives the statement that
'vietnam was the first real helicotper war, helicopter pilots flew more than 36million sorties'
.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b097ts0d/the-vietnam-war-series-1-6-things-fall-apart-january-1968june-1968#
The only thing I can suggest is the 36million is the total helicopter manoeuvres, whereas your said stat might be documented attacks (which were also highlighted in this episode to have been stats that were lies)
S. Korea may not be heaven but it is as close as we might see on earth.
N. Korea might not be hell but it is as close as we see to hell on earth.
That sums up the difference quite nicely lfc.
N. Korea might not be hell but it is as close as we see to hell on earth.
That sums up the difference quite nicely lfc.
Very haunting seeing all those burning monks....
Didn't president Johnson lie about the Gulf of Tonkin attack? so he could give himself a mandate to start the war in the north?
Didn't president Johnson lie about the Gulf of Tonkin attack? so he could give himself a mandate to start the war in the north?
What holy fools some people can be, how are the monks doing in Tibet, come to that how is Tibet doing?
I would not trust the good sense or judgement of anyone who sets themselves on fire .
TheBetterBettor • October 12, 2017 4:30 PM BST
Very haunting seeing all those burning monks....
Didn't president Johnson lie about the Gulf of Tonkin attack? so he could give himself a mandate to start the war in the north?
Thats what the documentary infers; that the south was acting under the direction of the americans and attacked islands in the north.
As to burning monks and lfc's belief in their actions being folly, there are fundementally bigger actions than simply bullying that have greater effects in the long run that bullets and bombs.
The whole escapade can been seen as evidence of this; the electorate in usa was its own soft underbelly, that ultimately forced the guns to leave the land.
A image being more potent than a 1000 words etc.
Very haunting seeing all those burning monks....
Didn't president Johnson lie about the Gulf of Tonkin attack? so he could give himself a mandate to start the war in the north?
Thats what the documentary infers; that the south was acting under the direction of the americans and attacked islands in the north.
As to burning monks and lfc's belief in their actions being folly, there are fundementally bigger actions than simply bullying that have greater effects in the long run that bullets and bombs.
The whole escapade can been seen as evidence of this; the electorate in usa was its own soft underbelly, that ultimately forced the guns to leave the land.
A image being more potent than a 1000 words etc.
David Fishwick Minibus Sales
"the vietnamese; a great bunch of lads."
Glad to see you're not a racist! Apart from to the Maoris. Of course, there are no Maoris on Fishwick Island.
"the vietnamese; a great bunch of lads."
Glad to see you're not a racist! Apart from to the Maoris. Of course, there are no Maoris on Fishwick Island.
If you are interested in the vietnam war or helicopters, read "Chickenhawk" by Robert Mason, it's fantastic.
That's a Just Checking (TM) recommendation, it doesn't come better than that.
That's a Just Checking (TM) recommendation, it doesn't come better than that.
Whatever guys
This is a truly amazing bit of television
The soldiers talking on both sides are just incredible ...the way they look back at it.
Everyone will have their personal favourite but the glint in the eye of the Vietcong army vet when he remembered the young american
GI Joes giving away their whereabouts because they were always smoking a **** was something to behold
This is a truly amazing bit of television
The soldiers talking on both sides are just incredible ...the way they look back at it.
Everyone will have their personal favourite but the glint in the eye of the Vietcong army vet when he remembered the young american
GI Joes giving away their whereabouts because they were always smoking a **** was something to behold
I missed that bit, do you mean a "doobie" (to be era relevant).
That is really REALLY stupid, I hate that smell and can smell it quite literally 100s of meters downwind.
If they were smoking near the enemy they pretty much deserve to be jumped!
That is really REALLY stupid, I hate that smell and can smell it quite literally 100s of meters downwind.
If they were smoking near the enemy they pretty much deserve to be jumped!
Well vietnam is notorious for weed. A f-g that's stupid as well but at least you can hide that with some effort.
You've reminded of the famous last words of the author "Saki":
"Put that bloody cigarette out." - then a sniper who presumably saw it, fired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki
You've reminded of the famous last words of the author "Saki":
"Put that bloody cigarette out." - then a sniper who presumably saw it, fired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saki
Remember the old Paul Hardcastle track '19', with the verses of stats about the average age of american combat personnel being 19.
These were youths in the main, fresh out of school, smoking and drinking was all they had and it looked like they all smoked.
Theres a good bit in one of the episodes where a black guy tells the story of going on leave after his tour and the bombs chasing him all the way out and him thinking it was gods way of catching up with a wrong he did in killing all the innocent ones who never even had sex and letting him off by mistake.
He then tells of not being able to catch a taxi back home while in uniform because to them at home he was still 'only' a 'ni**er'.
These were youths in the main, fresh out of school, smoking and drinking was all they had and it looked like they all smoked.
Theres a good bit in one of the episodes where a black guy tells the story of going on leave after his tour and the bombs chasing him all the way out and him thinking it was gods way of catching up with a wrong he did in killing all the innocent ones who never even had sex and letting him off by mistake.
He then tells of not being able to catch a taxi back home while in uniform because to them at home he was still 'only' a 'ni**er'.
The guy was on about tracking the american forces via their discarded butts like you might track an animal via its foot prints.
You would have thought the Americans would have learnt that trick from the American Indians.
Very good music on the program....with track listings on the end credits.
There is a TV series called 'Battlefield' that has done 12 1 hour programmes on Vietnam which are well worth watching - often found on some of the History channels. More usual to come across some of the second world war programmes but these are also very informative, especially the Eastern Front shows.
I always like the one that whisperingdeath mentioned; world at war. The thing with that one is it was very dry and of its time.
Ofc war is serious but eras change and wars are fought differently and technology progresses.
As TBB notes the soundtrack of the period is almost like a film like apocolypse or full metal jacket.
Seeing the american embassy taken and the despiration of getting it back all caught on film gives the reality of what actually happens beyond the propaganda.
Ofc war is serious but eras change and wars are fought differently and technology progresses.
As TBB notes the soundtrack of the period is almost like a film like apocolypse or full metal jacket.
Seeing the american embassy taken and the despiration of getting it back all caught on film gives the reality of what actually happens beyond the propaganda.
The world at war is imho the best and will never be surpassed. You can't interview the major figures now, as they are all dead!
Also James Stewart was in it, in one of his best roles as real bad ass B24 pilot.
Also James Stewart was in it, in one of his best roles as real bad ass B24 pilot.
battle lines being drawn, commies protesting in chicargo , Nixon gets elected good news.
Great American music in this documentary , that's something else to be thankful for .
Great American music in this documentary , that's something else to be thankful for .
The allegation was that he disrupted potential peace to get IN and then ultimately got impeached and thrown OUT of office.
Whether that bothered you or not is immaterial.
Whether that bothered you or not is immaterial.
He wasn't impeached . And he didn't disrupt peace , of course that is what that biased dicumenrmtary tried to imply ,
But that's the way with leftists, didn't explain how.
But that's the way with leftists, didn't explain how.
You shouldn't be rude like that dustybin, that's how wars start.
We know you want Nixon to have been impeached, that doesn't make it true
We know you want Nixon to have stopped peace in Vietnam to win the election
That doesn't make it true either.
We know you want Nixon to have stopped peace in Vietnam to win the election
That doesn't make it true either.
Anyone with any small bit of sense could work out that it wasn't in Nixon interest, electoral or otherwise to stop peace in Vietnam .
What votes was he going to lose if the democrats had pulled troops out if Vietnam , try and work that out and stop believing everything you are told.
What votes was he going to lose if the democrats had pulled troops out if Vietnam , try and work that out and stop believing everything you are told.
Claiming a technicality that Nixon wasn't actually impeached when he resigned before three counts were brought and confidence in him totally shot and ultimately the greater humiliation on the country is pathetic.
I've seen many take umbridge with you lfc but because I too am outspoken I just let leave people to say what they believe.
But I've done with you too.
I've seen many take umbridge with you lfc but because I too am outspoken I just let leave people to say what they believe.
But I've done with you too.
I think the next line is, "Does your conscience bother you?"
boo boo boo isn't it, after reference to George Wallace?
Yes I think so as governor of Alabama .
It's not as if everything is black and white, even in Alabama
It's not as if everything is black and white, even in Alabama
No I remember skynard talking about it, the governor was mussel scholes , Wallace the democrat candidate
He lost.
He lost.
??? think you are a tad confused there. Muscle Shoals was the site of a famous music recording studio, still is,
where like of Otis Redding & Aretha Franklin recorded.
where like of Otis Redding & Aretha Franklin recorded.
Getting mixed up , mussel scholes was the music studio were a lot of their music was recorded.
Yep, I've got it now northernlite..as Neil young said to Robbie Robertson.
That's the end of that great series, I think I might purchase it if it comes out on DVD.
There's some good footage that I'd never seen before, like the line of veterans queuing up at the siege barriers in front of the White House launching their Vietnams war medals back at it, or a young John Kerry (looking like a middle aged Jimmy Hill) shaping his future political career.
For all the pro-yank teabaggers, what positive can you extract from the whole Vietnam period?
I see nothing but humiliation top to bottom.
You can see exactly why the machiavellian approach to world policy took the shape it did following this debacle. If america can't bully peasants in paddy fields into submission by sending in troops and weapons then the only option for them is to either bomb from afar or finance proxy uprisings.
All the brash bravado about ideologies and commie hating rhetoric and they only ever tackle the little tiddlers, and even then have to abandon it.
I read in the NS recently how the Anglo-American pact are dreaming up a new medal for 'valour' to give drone pilots sat at home in their reclining chairs 1000's of miles from the action, simply because they are struggling to attract enough candidates to have the stomach to view close up the damage they do to other humans.
There's some good footage that I'd never seen before, like the line of veterans queuing up at the siege barriers in front of the White House launching their Vietnams war medals back at it, or a young John Kerry (looking like a middle aged Jimmy Hill) shaping his future political career.
For all the pro-yank teabaggers, what positive can you extract from the whole Vietnam period?
I see nothing but humiliation top to bottom.
You can see exactly why the machiavellian approach to world policy took the shape it did following this debacle. If america can't bully peasants in paddy fields into submission by sending in troops and weapons then the only option for them is to either bomb from afar or finance proxy uprisings.
All the brash bravado about ideologies and commie hating rhetoric and they only ever tackle the little tiddlers, and even then have to abandon it.
I read in the NS recently how the Anglo-American pact are dreaming up a new medal for 'valour' to give drone pilots sat at home in their reclining chairs 1000's of miles from the action, simply because they are struggling to attract enough candidates to have the stomach to view close up the damage they do to other humans.
For all the pro-yank teabaggers, what positive can you extract from the whole Vietnam period?
The first war won by the media.
The first war won by the media.
Yes, its amazing the depths plundered by presidents in positions of responsibility.
How can anybody trust anything said by those in office?
How can anybody trust anything said by those in office?
has anyone seen Vietnam Requiem? the documentary Paul Hardcastle sampled for "19"
I havnt but might look it up.
Never gets boring seeing america get its face wiped.
Never gets boring seeing america get its face wiped.
A country that fights against the scourge of communism which had already enslaved large parts of the world.
They are heroes, imo.
They are heroes, imo.
Fights against it by picking on the runts of the litter.
Very brave.
If the belief is that they are right and communism is wrong why not tackle the source of the river and show some bollox?
Is it because they only like picking fights with tiddlers?
Very brave.
If the belief is that they are right and communism is wrong why not tackle the source of the river and show some bollox?
Is it because they only like picking fights with tiddlers?
Really, and who were America fighting against in the war against Nazi Germany, and Japan and Italy etc.
Where they "tiddlers" also?
Where they "tiddlers" also?
Now of course it is possible you would have wanted America to continue WW2 and continue the war right into Moscow and soviet Russia.
But they decided not to, of course no one else did either.
But they decided not to, of course no one else did either.
They were trying to stop the spread of this evil ideology, luckily for western Europe and ourselves.
PMSL
I just knew you'd default back into the predictable.
The difference is about 'chossing' and 'defending'
WWII was about stopping agression.
USA were attacked directly, though they sat it out for long enough.
These skirmishes are ideologically based created by politicians with machiavellian aspiration.
Answer the question, why do they draw a line between communism that will punch as hard as them, and communism thats peasant in paddy fields?
I just knew you'd default back into the predictable.
The difference is about 'chossing' and 'defending'
WWII was about stopping agression.
USA were attacked directly, though they sat it out for long enough.
These skirmishes are ideologically based created by politicians with machiavellian aspiration.
Answer the question, why do they draw a line between communism that will punch as hard as them, and communism thats peasant in paddy fields?
Any country with any sense will not enter a war that it might lose or which will have potentially devastating results...such as a war with soviet Russia.
now grow up.
now grow up.
but its ok to tackle the satellite countries because although the ideology is consistant with the larger enitities, their percieved fighting ability isnt?
Yes, that's a very sensible and admirable and brave and noble thing to do, imo.
I say perceived because as we saw, they got shown their own arse as they scuttled away in humiliation
Not only could they not defeat the tiddler whom were supposed to be degenerate, they couldnt even show loyalty to the promises they made....why?
Because the head of their own snake back home turned out to be rotten and wasnt what everyone thought was worth fighting for.
Because the head of their own snake back home turned out to be rotten and wasnt what everyone thought was worth fighting for.
Yes, that's why it was brave and noble. They didn't have to do that. This was the 1960/70s
a beautiful time in America. That's why they are heroes.
a beautiful time in America. That's why they are heroes.
Well they certainly have the minions lined up to keep voting for the same old manipulation it seems
Its a continuous cycle, they lie about the stuff they want you to believe to get into office, create an enemy and then continue to do wtf they want once the electorate is out of the way.
Its a continuous cycle, they lie about the stuff they want you to believe to get into office, create an enemy and then continue to do wtf they want once the electorate is out of the way.
110 minute extended versions of all of the 10 episodes can be found on youtube.
Thats if you've got 18 hours to kill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bobimj9kcsk
Thats if you've got 18 hours to kill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bobimj9kcsk
I'm sure the documentary was very good but it's about the Vietnam War. A war made famous by some excellent Hollywood films, but historically unimportant and uninteresting, unless you are Vietnamese or American. The Great War on the other hand, shaped the world we live in. Led directly to huge social change in Britain and beyond, led directly to the USA becoming the dominant world power, and directly to the birth of communism in Russia and beyond, even before one examines the sheer brutality and relentlessness of the conflict. The best war documentary ever must be the best war documentary of The Great War, whatever it is.
Surely the quality of footage has to be a factor - I'd rather watch a BBC4 documentary on the cod wars than a Channel 5 documentary on any world war
And the footage in the Vietnam war was truly excellent - I've seen the World at War which was brilliant, but the actual footage was sparse and poor quality - the coverage of the US politicians is staggering in the Vietnam one too
And the footage in the Vietnam war was truly excellent - I've seen the World at War which was brilliant, but the actual footage was sparse and poor quality - the coverage of the US politicians is staggering in the Vietnam one too
For me I've got to be interested in the subject matter before I'd be interested in watching it. I don't feel connected to the Vietnam War and I can't imagine what will interest me about it, and seeing as it's a documentary rather than entertainment, I think that's fundamental.
CB
Seriously watch it .
Your life will be better
it is a truly stunning piece of wotk
just to hear John Musgrave's reflections would be worth it alone
the footage of the Vietnam vets outside the Whitehouse was jawdropping
it is a tale of our times regarding morality and war
the thing i can never get out of my head is how young the soldiers on both sides looked and the tiredness in their faces
Seriously watch it .
Your life will be better
it is a truly stunning piece of wotk
just to hear John Musgrave's reflections would be worth it alone
the footage of the Vietnam vets outside the Whitehouse was jawdropping
it is a tale of our times regarding morality and war
the thing i can never get out of my head is how young the soldiers on both sides looked and the tiredness in their faces
Uncut version of the series now getting re-aired on PBS America starting on Sunday 9pm. Freeview ch94 also on Sky.
the wardrums are beating on sky news as we speak
they sure love it - whipping it up - with nice pictures of missiles and ships etc
reminds me of the good old days
I wonder if any of you have ever been out there - if you have you had, you would wonder why we are threatening to pile in AGAIN!!!
and I am not on about places like dubai either.
they sure love it - whipping it up - with nice pictures of missiles and ships etc
reminds me of the good old days
I wonder if any of you have ever been out there - if you have you had, you would wonder why we are threatening to pile in AGAIN!!!
and I am not on about places like dubai either.
I dont think they pile in anything now.
They sit on a ship out at sea and fire off missiles and drones with nobody in em.
I wonder whether the drone pilots have the simulation seat like the old arcade games have like after-burner etc?
Difference is they dont have to fill the thing with change, infact they get paid to 'play'
They sit on a ship out at sea and fire off missiles and drones with nobody in em.
I wonder whether the drone pilots have the simulation seat like the old arcade games have like after-burner etc?
Difference is they dont have to fill the thing with change, infact they get paid to 'play'
just found the channel it starts in 15 minutes happy days, thx for the heads up.
Watched it second time around a couple of months back, compelling viewing.
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