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Can't see this ending well.
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Rajoy has called this spoofers bluff. Hes calling no independence
Hes now asking for permission to call independence. 
Guy is some bull5hitter Cameronesque
Guy is some bull5hitter Cameronesque
Spanish government gives Catalonia 8 days to drop its Independence claim or lose its autonomy. Slick move from Rajoy.
I'm not so sure, the Catalans have now been backed into a corner by that statement from Rajoy. When that happens to proud and emotional people they tend to come out fighting for the cause.
I don't entirely agree with the Catalan's right to independence, but I think most agree that the Spanish government's handling of the situation was absolutely terrible. Ask yourself this question: "what would you do now if you were the Catalan leader?" I can't see him rolling over having gone through all that upheaval.
I don't entirely agree with the Catalan's right to independence, but I think most agree that the Spanish government's handling of the situation was absolutely terrible. Ask yourself this question: "what would you do now if you were the Catalan leader?" I can't see him rolling over having gone through all that upheaval.
The Catalans are weak because the Catalans position is dishonest.
They claim they want independence but want it and at the same time want to live off the back of the rest of greater Spain .
That's dishonest , that's why they are like that , that's often the case with republicans.
They claim they want independence but want it and at the same time want to live off the back of the rest of greater Spain .
That's dishonest , that's why they are like that , that's often the case with republicans.
Take a small example , Barcelona FC . Let them declare independence tomorrow .
And leave the Spanish league at the weekend.
A big example ? Let the Catalan people declare independence . And lose the automatic right to live and work in Madrid and the rest of Spain .
They don't want to do that do they?
Other countries are the same , Scottish independence ? Well let's see if the Irish Republic becomes independent first .
Or do they still want to retain the automatic rights of British citizens to live and work and and vote etc in Britain.
.
And leave the Spanish league at the weekend.
A big example ? Let the Catalan people declare independence . And lose the automatic right to live and work in Madrid and the rest of Spain .
They don't want to do that do they?
Other countries are the same , Scottish independence ? Well let's see if the Irish Republic becomes independent first .
Or do they still want to retain the automatic rights of British citizens to live and work and and vote etc in Britain.
.
That's 100 years ago the Irish republic declared 'independence'
You see you can't have independence without borders , that's impossible.
Madrid's crackdown continues.
Independence movement leaders held without bail due to sedition.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41646142
Why is the EU and May not condemning this and calling on the Spanish government to start talks.
Independence movement leaders held without bail due to sedition.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41646142
Why is the EU and May not condemning this and calling on the Spanish government to start talks.
Why should May condemn it? Why should she interfere with another countries rule of law? Does the Spanish PM comment on decisions of the British Judiciary?
The EU has condemned Turkey for less.
Police brutality and jailing political opponents should have no place in modern European countries.
Police brutality and jailing political opponents should have no place in modern European countries.
I don't think you've answered any of the questions I've asked. Again why should May condemn the contents of the article you posted?
Spain removing the Catalans autonomy at the weekend.A dangerous game of poker being played here.
Tension ratcheting up. Catalan leader speaking at 8pm.
This isnt going to end well with the heavy hand approach.
Catalan leader speaking at 8pm.
Has anyone viewed this?
Has anyone viewed this?
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to curb the region's autonomy.Another crack in the EU dam.
Thanks GOT.
Got right out of hand. Can see the activists responding with violence.
Got right out of hand. Can see the activists responding with violence.
Don't worry, Robert Mugabe is going over as a peace ambassador to sort it out.
If that fails maybe they'll dig up and send Stalin, or Goebbels.
We could always send Tony.
The Middle East must be sorted by now surely.
The Middle East must be sorted by now surely.
Who knows where this will end now the Catalans have declared independence and Madrid responded with a vote to take back control? Madrid will probably prevail by force but it won't be pretty. What a shame and worry for the Spanish people, I have fond memories of the country.
Well done the Catalans for standing up the Globalists.
The main problem the globalists are creating is no borders. Aren't the Catalans EU lovers if they are let in ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMBs5yZDEc
the times are a changin
the times are a changin
#BREAKING Britain will not recognise the Catalan parliament's declaration of independence from Spain, Downing Street has said 
They could hardly do anything else, given the Scotland situation it would be hypocritical.
I don't think any country has recognised Catalan independence have they?
Blimey I was in Barcelona in 1979 and they were on the streets then. What happened to the Basques they used to be the problem nobody took the Catalans seriously.
26 July 1581 Dutch secessionists declare illegal independence from Spain & declare a Republic. But will Dutch recognise Catalonia?
Theresa the appeaser refused to recognise the independence move.
Why the sad face after your comment xmoneyx?
You could hardly expect the UK to take any other stance.
Nobody will recognise this move and quite rightly so.
The Catalans had the moral high ground with the OTT response to their referendum, they've just lost it.
You could hardly expect the UK to take any other stance.
Nobody will recognise this move and quite rightly so.
The Catalans had the moral high ground with the OTT response to their referendum, they've just lost it.
howard 27 Oct 17 19:04
Playing next match in yellow and red
Playing next match in yellow and red
I suspect that Spain will now crush the Catalans with a vengeance. All very sad to see.
Verified account
@NicolaSturgeon 5m
: “We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future.”
@NicolaSturgeon 5m
: “We respect position...people of Catalonia must have ability to determine own future.”
Press are going over the top with the term civil war, i cant remember the last civil war ?
They could ask Barca to join the Scottish Premier league then.
Be a bit boring the same team winning every year though.
Be a bit boring the same team winning every year though.
She has no regard for law then.
No shame either as it happens as she has continually ignored the will of the Scottish people to remain in Union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
No shame either as it happens as she has continually ignored the will of the Scottish people to remain in Union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Like the UK and everywhere else in the world you need the permission of the government to hold a referendum.
That is the law in Spain and the Catalans broke the law by attempting to hold one. Sturgeon is supporting breaking the law.
That is the law in Spain and the Catalans broke the law by attempting to hold one. Sturgeon is supporting breaking the law.
you misread tweet
she's saying the ability to hold a lawful referendum
she's saying the ability to hold a lawful referendum
Spain denied a lawful legal referendum , but catalan leader did the stupid thing an held one anyway
They declared independence and she say she respects their position.
That is correct Akabula, if any region anywhere were allowed to call independence referendums whenever they liked chaos would quickly ensue all over the world. Imagine if Edinburgh decided they didn't want to be part of Scotland anymore, or London declared they were not leaving the EU? Society would fall apart. Still very sad to see what is happening in Spain.
The Catalans should have pursued this through the courts.
It is sad KL.
Your analogy quoting Edinburgh isn't that far away from reality as the Shetlands have said they'd consider independence if Scotland broke away from the Union.
I wonder if wee Nicki would support their position.
Your analogy quoting Edinburgh isn't that far away from reality as the Shetlands have said they'd consider independence if Scotland broke away from the Union.
I wonder if wee Nicki would support their position.
I would imagine that Spain will now use the army to block access to the Catalan parliament buildings.
Be like a red rag to a bull so expect a response to that if it happens. Could escalate into a really violent situation.
Be like a red rag to a bull so expect a response to that if it happens. Could escalate into a really violent situation.
BREAKING: Gambia becomes the first country to recognize Catalan independence.
They were joined by James Scott of the Scottish Resistance. T Shirt coming soon.
Luckily the situation isn't like the 30's with Financial problems; the rise of the right in Germany; A nutter leading the Russians and civil war to break out in Spain...
Oct 27, 2017 -- 9:12PM, akabula wrote:
I would imagine that Spain will now use the army to block access to the Catalan parliament buildings.Be like a red rag to a bull so expect a response to that if it happens. Could escalate into a really violent situation.
nah they just need to seize the money and that's the end of that.
..If only wee nicki was a bit more brave about doing the same and throwing a plastic referendum
"They could hardly do anything else, given the Scotland situation it would be hypocritical."
Scotland situation? There is no constitutional parallel between Spain and UK.
Scotland situation? There is no constitutional parallel between Spain and UK.
"Like the UK and everywhere else in the world you need the permission of the government to hold a referendum.
That is the law in Spain and the Catalans broke the law by attempting to hold one. Sturgeon is supporting breaking the law."
DRIVEL.
That is the law in Spain and the Catalans broke the law by attempting to hold one. Sturgeon is supporting breaking the law."
DRIVEL.
Why would Scotland require "permission" when it's an "equal partner" in the union?
How many independent countries would exist right now if they'd waited for "permission"?
How many independent countries would exist right now if they'd waited for "permission"?
Lol, if you thought Alias sounded grumpy this morning, just wait till he gets home from Murrayfield :o
Did Scotland not ask Westmister Govt if they could hold a referendum ?
The only 'fake' referendum the scots participate in is the scottish parliamentary elections.
trilby22
Lol, if you thought Alias sounded grumpy this morning, just wait till he gets home from Murrayfield
Lol, if you thought Alias sounded grumpy this morning, just wait till he gets home from Murrayfield
Alias unaware of the law.
Yes Scotland is an equal partner but the government of the day, which represents all in the Union, must give permission.
Did you enjoy the game BTW? Great 3rd goal eh? Or had you already left by then?
Yes Scotland is an equal partner but the government of the day, which represents all in the Union, must give permission.
Did you enjoy the game BTW? Great 3rd goal eh? Or had you already left by then?
A million turned out today.The tide beginning to turn to reflect a more distinct split.
Proclaiming independence on the back of a referendum that the majority of voters ignored because it was illegal.
I hope that loon Puigdemont, who looks like the fourth member of The Three Stooges, is indicted and jailed for sedition.
This craziness must be stopped in its tracks.
This craziness must be stopped in its tracks.
I wonder what the posters supporting the Spanish gov position would have said prior to the Spanish civil war in .Scotland's Indy ref is being compared to the Catalonian crisis but in truth they are not comparable .
The Uk not only agreed to the referendum but it Conducted the vote in a civilised and fair manner ,Spain is not acting in similar fashion ,the Spanish civil war was in reality the prelude to WW11 ,so much happened in Europe and the world that the Spanish coup by Franco got washed over and little is really said ,Hemingway ect penned some stuff but the feeling remains that little has really been said with many issues not addressed ,seems that people have short memories are ignorant or just stupid ,interestingly and since we are on a betting site one of the factors in Spanish civil war was a corruption scandal involving a betting game called Strapelo ,a "fixed" roulette wheel ,an intriguing story of corruption and blackmail .While not the main reason it played a part ,not sure all those historic issues have been fully ruminated and debated ,the Catalonian issue is firmly rooted in the lack of address post civil war and WW11 period .Franco's involvement with other fascist states should never be forgotten and to all those suggesting the catalonian voice be put down with force would do well to study the history history ,hardly an informed word been spoken on this thread ,embarrassing and a testament to how far the forum has fallen ,having said that I fully understand why some people watch the news and come to the conclusion that the Catalonians are being unreasonable and acting outside the law ,listening to the bbc saying 1m Catalonians opposed to independence were on the streets is laughable ,in fact according to Jeremy vine today it constitutes a vote ,but little mention the attempts of the Catalonians to poll it's people and hold a vote based on electoral registry ,prob best if the bbc just kept out of the situation altogether .Recently was listening to an old relative reciting a very lengthy poem about "sir Richard Grenville " which she had been forced to learn as a youth at school ,had to laugh at some of the terms used and had to google many of them ,although" inquisition dogs " was fairly self explanatory . Spain is a pretty messed up country and they would do well to resort to democracy ,although elsewhere in Europe events are afoot that makes one wonder where we are in the grand scheme of a post war dream .
The Uk not only agreed to the referendum but it Conducted the vote in a civilised and fair manner ,Spain is not acting in similar fashion ,the Spanish civil war was in reality the prelude to WW11 ,so much happened in Europe and the world that the Spanish coup by Franco got washed over and little is really said ,Hemingway ect penned some stuff but the feeling remains that little has really been said with many issues not addressed ,seems that people have short memories are ignorant or just stupid ,interestingly and since we are on a betting site one of the factors in Spanish civil war was a corruption scandal involving a betting game called Strapelo ,a "fixed" roulette wheel ,an intriguing story of corruption and blackmail .While not the main reason it played a part ,not sure all those historic issues have been fully ruminated and debated ,the Catalonian issue is firmly rooted in the lack of address post civil war and WW11 period .Franco's involvement with other fascist states should never be forgotten and to all those suggesting the catalonian voice be put down with force would do well to study the history history ,hardly an informed word been spoken on this thread ,embarrassing and a testament to how far the forum has fallen ,having said that I fully understand why some people watch the news and come to the conclusion that the Catalonians are being unreasonable and acting outside the law ,listening to the bbc saying 1m Catalonians opposed to independence were on the streets is laughable ,in fact according to Jeremy vine today it constitutes a vote ,but little mention the attempts of the Catalonians to poll it's people and hold a vote based on electoral registry ,prob best if the bbc just kept out of the situation altogether .Recently was listening to an old relative reciting a very lengthy poem about "sir Richard Grenville " which she had been forced to learn as a youth at school ,had to laugh at some of the terms used and had to google many of them ,although" inquisition dogs " was fairly self explanatory . Spain is a pretty messed up country and they would do well to resort to democracy ,although elsewhere in Europe events are afoot that makes one wonder where we are in the grand scheme of a post war dream .
I wonder what the posters supporting the Spanish gov position would have said prior to the Spanish civil war in .Scotland's Indy ref is being compared to the Catalonian crisis but in truth they are not comparable .
The Uk not only agreed to the referendum but it Conducted the vote in a civilised and fair manner ,Spain is not acting in similar fashion ,the Spanish civil war was in reality the prelude to WW11 ,so much happened in Europe and the world that the Spanish coup by Franco got washed over and little is really said ,Hemingway ect penned some stuff but the feeling remains that little has really been said with many issues not addressed ,seems that people have short memories are ignorant or just stupid ,interestingly and since we are on a betting site one of the factors in Spanish civil war was a corruption scandal involving a betting game called Strapelo ,a "fixed" roulette wheel ,an intriguing story of corruption and blackmail .While not the main reason it played a part ,not sure all those historic issues have been fully ruminated and debated ,the Catalonian issue is firmly rooted in the lack of address post civil war and WW11 period .Franco's involvement with other fascist states should never be forgotten and to all those suggesting the catalonian voice be put down with force would do well to study the history history ,hardly an informed word been spoken on this thread ,embarrassing and a testament to how far the forum has fallen ,having said that I fully understand why some people watch the news and come to the conclusion that the Catalonians are being unreasonable and acting outside the law ,listening to the bbc saying 1m Catalonians opposed to independence were on the streets is laughable ,in fact according to Jeremy vine today it constitutes a vote ,but little mention the attempts of the Catalonians to poll it's people and hold a vote based on electoral registry ,prob best if the bbc just kept out of the situation altogether .Recently was listening to an old relative reciting a very lengthy poem about "sir Richard Grenville " which she had been forced to learn as a youth at school ,had to laugh at some of the terms used and had to google many of them ,although" inquisition dogs " was fairly self explanatory . Spain is a pretty messed up country and they would do well to resort to democracy ,although elsewhere in Europe events are afoot that makes one wonder where we are in the grand scheme of a post war dream .
The Uk not only agreed to the referendum but it Conducted the vote in a civilised and fair manner ,Spain is not acting in similar fashion ,the Spanish civil war was in reality the prelude to WW11 ,so much happened in Europe and the world that the Spanish coup by Franco got washed over and little is really said ,Hemingway ect penned some stuff but the feeling remains that little has really been said with many issues not addressed ,seems that people have short memories are ignorant or just stupid ,interestingly and since we are on a betting site one of the factors in Spanish civil war was a corruption scandal involving a betting game called Strapelo ,a "fixed" roulette wheel ,an intriguing story of corruption and blackmail .While not the main reason it played a part ,not sure all those historic issues have been fully ruminated and debated ,the Catalonian issue is firmly rooted in the lack of address post civil war and WW11 period .Franco's involvement with other fascist states should never be forgotten and to all those suggesting the catalonian voice be put down with force would do well to study the history history ,hardly an informed word been spoken on this thread ,embarrassing and a testament to how far the forum has fallen ,having said that I fully understand why some people watch the news and come to the conclusion that the Catalonians are being unreasonable and acting outside the law ,listening to the bbc saying 1m Catalonians opposed to independence were on the streets is laughable ,in fact according to Jeremy vine today it constitutes a vote ,but little mention the attempts of the Catalonians to poll it's people and hold a vote based on electoral registry ,prob best if the bbc just kept out of the situation altogether .Recently was listening to an old relative reciting a very lengthy poem about "sir Richard Grenville " which she had been forced to learn as a youth at school ,had to laugh at some of the terms used and had to google many of them ,although" inquisition dogs " was fairly self explanatory . Spain is a pretty messed up country and they would do well to resort to democracy ,although elsewhere in Europe events are afoot that makes one wonder where we are in the grand scheme of a post war dream .
Time for a roll call of those supporting the Catalans.
1 Russia
2 North Korea
3 The SNP
1 Russia
2 North Korea
3 The SNP
Interesting post breadnbutter,
I confess ignorance on the matter but have always supported Barcelona over Madrid as los blancos were Franco's club or so I was lead to believe. Whenever I go to a pub to watch El Grand Classico in West London amongst the Spaniards I always manage to get a Fcuk Franco in somewhere when Barca score!
Anyway
Why do The Catalans want independence? What is the political reason? I understand they pay more than their fair share but can they stand alone as a Country? I think their attempt at independence will fail certainly in the short term. I have a certain sympathy for them but I am not sure what they are trying to do is wise.
I confess ignorance on the matter but have always supported Barcelona over Madrid as los blancos were Franco's club or so I was lead to believe. Whenever I go to a pub to watch El Grand Classico in West London amongst the Spaniards I always manage to get a Fcuk Franco in somewhere when Barca score!
Anyway
Why do The Catalans want independence? What is the political reason? I understand they pay more than their fair share but can they stand alone as a Country? I think their attempt at independence will fail certainly in the short term. I have a certain sympathy for them but I am not sure what they are trying to do is wise.
Dolenz? I thought he was Harrio Pottero? "Independialis maxximus". I mean all his fellow MPS were walking about with big wands the other day!
BREAKING: Catalan leader will make a statement tomorrow from Belgium at 12:30pm
took asylum
took asylum
Should have been in an asylum the feckin loon that he is.
I think he's their equivalent of James Scott.
I remember him saying we should declare UDI.
I remember him saying we should declare UDI.
If they wanted independence how come they all took a day off a few weeks ago for The Spanish National Day?
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