Chit Chat
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/30/police-say-there-were-grounds-to-suspect-edward-heath-over-child-abuse-claims
Wiltshire police will release a report into the claims against Heath next week following a two-year inquiry, and its conclusion means that if the politician had still been alive he may have been formally interviewed by detectives under criminal caution.
The report will acknowledge the difficulty in assessing the validity of such historic abuse claims which date back decades and it will not reach a conclusion on whether Heath, who died in 2005, was guilty of the allegations.
The threshold for reason to suspect is relatively low in the English criminal justice system. Officers reached the conclusion, at least in part, because of the similarities in accounts from several complainants who alleged they were abused by Heath.
The Wiltshire force believe those accounts remain credible, and nothing has been found to undermine them by detectives. In private they have described those people as “victims”.
An interview under criminal caution is a key stage in building a criminal case against a suspect, but it also offers them an opportunity to rebut claims and dispute facts.
Heath was unmarried and his private life attracted speculation, some of it lurid and unfair. Heath became Conservative party leader in 1965 and later was the UK’s seventh postwar prime minister, serving from 1970 to 1974.
However, supporters of the former prime minister believe the findings by police are an unfair stain on Heath’s reputation and want a fresh judge-led inquiry.
Lincoln Seligman, godson of Heath, told the Guardian: “I want a judge-led review of the evidence, because that is the only way of getting to the truth. There is no other way I can see to get justice.
“I think they [the police] will suggest that the witnesses they have investigated tally with each other, therefore that makes their evidence credible. We fear the stain will remain, unfairly, for years.”
Wiltshire’s team also found material undermining the credibility of other people who came forward to make allegations against the former prime minister. Over 30 people contacted detectives.
The allegations against Heath came from people across the country and the investigation was led by Wiltshire police in western England, because the former prime minister had a home in Salisbury.
Mike Veale, the chief constable of Wiltshire, believed and will argue when the report in unveiled that the force was obliged to investigate. That need was made greater because Heath reached the very top of the British establishment and state power structure.
Veale felt his team of investigators and himself were being pressured to drop the inquiry, and faced a barrage of media criticism.
Detectives in the Heath inquiry, codenamed Operation Conifer, believe they have avoided the errors made by an earlier high-profile investigation into sexual abuse by the powerful, Scotland Yard’s ill-fated Operation Midland, which was castigated by an inquiry for falling for claims from a single alleged fantasist.
The usual resolution for a police criminal inquiry is asking prosecutors for a decision on charging. This was not available in the Heath case as the Crown Prosecution Service will not give advice in a case where the suspect is deceased, even if it is of considerable public interest.
The full report from Operation Conifer will go the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is likely to consider it as part of an inquiry into whether the powerful were protected from proper criminal investigation.
One former detective said he had received a claim of sexual abuse by Heath while the former prime minister was still alive.
30 seconds of him on the TV anyone could see he was a fantasist , but the police were listening to his drivel for years.
Officers reached the conclusion, at least in part, because of the similarities in accounts from several complainants who alleged they were abused by Heath.
Over 30 people contacted detectives.
if there was nothing to hide,if it was all rubbish surely heath would have sued icke to kingdom come,he did nothing!
Not sure how much reputational damage that does tbf
It "challenged" statements like this that make me reconsider the value of a Jury System...
Sep 30, 2017 -- 10:32PM, The Leopard wrote:
....according to some sources.
'Nick' (NAP)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNelt33QP_8
Michael Shrimpton Exposes Ted Heath (and others)
Sep 30, 2017 -- 10:51PM, The Leopard wrote:
Here : .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNelt33QP_8Michael Shrimpton Exposes Ted Heath (and others)
Oh my , just been looking up Shrimpton , and i thought Nick was a loony.... 
He claims that his address is the headquarters of an international intelligence network and that he has travelled the world on intelligence assignments, with contacts in the CIA, FBI, MI6, Pentagon, Chinese intelligence, and the British Parliament 
He credits himself with a role in several intelligence successes, including the capture of Osama bin Laden.
According to Shrimpton, Germany re-established its Nazi-era intelligence apparatus, the Deutsches Verteidigungs Dienst [sic] (DVD) in 1945, and has since used it to wreak economic and political chaos abroad.
The DVD is supposedly responsible for the assassinations (often via "weaponized cancer") of Hugh Gaitskell, Ross McWhirter, Airey Neave, Ian Gow, John Smith, James Goldsmith, Christopher Story, Anna Lindh, Jo Cox, Mohandas Gandhi, and John F. Kennedy,
as well as for the sinking of the Russian submarine Kursk and for the Japanese tsunami of 2011 The mysterious disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann was a particular interest of Shrimpton's.
According to Shrimpton, he made arrangements for the British Armed Forces to rescue Madeleine, who was being held in or near Morocco after being smuggled there from Lagos on a drug-running vessel
On 19 April 2012, Shrimpton contacted Barry Burton, the principal private secretary of Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, to warn of an impending attack against London . According to Shrimpton, the DVD had stolen a nuclear warhead from the Kursk
and planted it somewhere in London The agency was supposedly planning to detonate the warhead during the opening ceremony of the 2012 Summer Olympics, with the principal target being either the Olympic Stadium or Queen Elizabeth II Shrimpton said the source of this information was the Russian Main Intelligence Directorate, via a back-channel network that included a friend of Pope Benedict XVI Though officials knew Shrimpton to be unreliable and were suspicious of his claims, they were obliged to take the reports seriously. When they were confirmed to be hoaxes, Shrimpton was arrested at his home in Wendover on 20 April on charges of communicating false information with intent . During police questioning, he said his arrest was a "colossal ****-up" and demanded "compensation and a nice lunch with MI5"
He later claimed that his arrest had been engineered by DVD infiltrators in the Thames Valley Police
and had allowed the DVD time to remove the nuclear device On 23 April, Shrimpton wrote to Buckingham Palace, the Ministry of Defence, the Kremlin, and the NSA to inform them that the Queen was no longer under threat, but that the bomb may have been moved to Ground Zero in New York City While investigating the bomb hoax case, police discovered Shrimpton to be in possession of a memory stick containing forty indecent images of children
This resulted in yet another criminal case, with Shrimpton being convicted and sentenced to a three-year supervision order and a five-year sexual offences prevention order 
He was also required to sign the Violent and Sex Offender Register. Shrimpton unsuccessfully appealed against the conviction, claiming that local police or the intelligence services had planted the pornographic images in his home in order to discredit him 
And David Icke is the probably the sanest of the three .
There was a thread on here a few weeks ago that claimed there was a connection, even with prominent labour MPs , well the op mentioned a few names including Corbyn and others but I didn't think it could be true.
no one commentating here would be prepared to vote labour if they went on rumours such as that I am sure.
Oct 1, 2017 -- 9:52AM, terry mccann wrote:
true and guess who sold them the guns and ammo?
Fund raising in Boston USA....yep.
No one here of course .
yep but they didn't rape them first
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http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/liam-adams-brother-of-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-found-guilty-of-raping-his-daughter-29625476.html
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/05/child-abuse-claims-edward-heath-key-points-police-report
Main points from the Operation Conifer report:
In the case of seven individual disclosures, if Sir Edward Heath had been alive he would have been interviewed under caution in order to obtain his account in relation to the allegations made against him.
The disclosures where Heath would have been interviewed under caution to gain an account are:
1961: Heath allegedly raped and indecently assaulted an 11-year-old boy during a paid sexual encounter in a private dwelling. London.
1962: Heath in the company of an unknown male allegedly indecently assaulted a 10-year-old boy during a chance encounter in a public place. Kent.
c1964: Heath allegedly indecently assaulted a 15-year-old male during three paid sexual encounters. Sussex and London.
1967: Heath allegedly indecently assaulted a 15-year-old male not known to him in private during a chance encounter in a public building. Guernsey.
1976: Heath allegedly indecently assaulted over clothing an adult male during a chance encounter at a public event. Jersey.
c1992: Heath allegedly indecently assaulted an adult male after consent was withdrawn in what had been a paid consensual sexual encounter in a hotel. Wiltshire.
Between 1990 and 1992: Heath allegedly indecently assaulted a boy aged between 12 and 14 not known to him during a chance encounter in private gardens. Wiltshire. The report said he would have been interviewed under caution over this allegation, BUT there is undermining evidence.
There was a cover-up in the case of a Liberal Cabinet Minister Loulou Harcourt. Harcourt was a sexual predator on teenagers of both genders and eventually committed suicide in the 1920s at the age of 59. He had made the mistake of pouncing on the young son of a particularly feisty aristocratic lady who spread the story through society. His suicide was treated as an accidental overdose both at the Inquest and elsewhere though the truth has been in the public domain for decades now. Interestingly though if you read between the lines of one or two political diarists of the time it's fairly obvious they knew what Loulou was up to. These days the truth would have come out much sooner.
My guess is Heath was either asexual or a repressed homosexual ( and remember any activity of that type would have been illegal until Heath was 50 and politically unacceptable for at least another 20 years ). Even assuming he was gay by inclination that doesn't mean he was a pederast.
42 Claims of Abuse ?? Thats from those who have come forward wonder how many possible
Claimants are dead ??
back in the 70s ,and is still an MP today
to Sexual Deviants among them being banged up.
The earliest, dating from 1961 when Sir Edward was Lord Privy Seal, alleged he had raped and indecently assaulted an 11-year-old boy in London "during a paid sexual encounter in private in a dwelling."
A paid encounter ?? who was being Paid ?
As stated if this took place ,most involved are probably Long Gone
Oct 5, 2017 -- 1:43PM, casemoney wrote:
Have a look at Harman she was in support of there being a "Paedophile Information Exchange"back in the 70s ,and is still an MP today
That is not correct Casemoney.....she was smeared by Daily Mail
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/25/harriet-harman-regrets-employer-link-paedophile-lobbyists
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Harriet Harman has embarked on an abrupt change of tack and expressed regret that her former employers at the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) granted affiliate status to a paedophile lobbying group in the 1970s.
Less than 12 hours after the Labour party's deputy leader told BBC's Newsnight that she was the victim of a smear campaign by the Daily Mail over the NCCL's links to the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), Harman's office issued a statement expressing regret about the links.
But Harman insisted that the affiliate status, granted in 1975, three years before she joined the NCCL as legal officer, was "immaterial" to her work.
An aide to Harman told the BBC's deputy political editor, James Landale: "She regrets the existence of PIE and of course she regrets any organisation's involvement with them, including the National Council for Civil Liberties. But they were immaterial to her work. She does not regret joining the NCCL. By the time she arrived [PIE] were very much under the radar."
The statement from Harman's office came after she was widely criticised for an interview on BBC2's Newsnight on Monday night in which she declined to express any regret and instead attacked the Daily Mail for publishing "titivating" pictures of young girls in bikinis.
Harman appeared on Newsnight after the Daily Mail ran a series of front-page stories highlighting the way in which the NCCL granted the PIE affiliate status in 1975. Harman joined the NCCL as legal officer in 1978. But her husband, Jack Dromey, now shadow police minister, was on its executive at the time and Harman's close ally the former Labour cabinet minister Patricia Hewitt was the NCCL chief executive.
Shami Chakrabarti, the director of the NCCL's successor organisation Liberty, responded to the Daily Mail allegations by apologising for its links with the PIE. But Harman told Newsnight: "It is not the case that my work, when I was at NCCL, was influenced by PIE, was apologising for paedophilia or colluding with paedophilia. That is an unfair inference and a smear."
Sources close to Harman insisted she would not be apologising to the Daily Mail, whose campaign has prompted hate mail from far right groups.
The sources also pointed out that Dromey confronted the PIE after he became executive chair of the NCCL in March 1976. He moved against the group at the NCCL AGM the following month and ensured the heavy defeat of a "bonkers" motion that would have condemned the harassment of paedophile campaign groups.
The PIE was then largely marginalised in the NCCL, leaving Harman to focus on her work on bans on marches, CND, Peter Hain and the anti-apartheid campaign and the royal commission on policing. A PIE supporter did have a letter published in NCCL magazine in 1981. But this was critical of the NCCL.
On Monday Harman said that while "the editor and proprietor of the Daily Mail are entitled to their political views and they are of course entitled to oppose what I stand for", they were "not entitled to use their newspaper to smear me with innuendo because they disagree with me politically and hate my values".
After calls from the tabloid for the Labour leadership to speak out on the issue, Harman was backed by Ed Miliband, who praised her "huge decency and integrity" and said he did not "set any store by these allegations".
Harman's attack on the Daily Mail echoes Miliband's decision to publicly tackle claims made by the newspaper last year when it branded his Marxist academic father, Ralph Miliband, the "man who hated Britain".
In a series of articles, the Mail had accused the three senior Labour figures of working for an organisation with a relaxed attitude to paedophilia, as it claimed the NCCL proposed legalising incest and wanted to lower the age of consent to as low as 10 in a 1976 submission to MPs. The Mail accused Harman of signing a document in favour of watering down child pornography legislation in 1978.
Harman said the Mail was trying to make her "guilty by way of association", while Dromey, also a Labour MP, said the paper's allegations were "beneath contempt" as he had been at the forefront of public condemnations of the PIE and their "despicable views".
Harman said she had supported the equalisation of the age of consent for gay sex, but never campaigned for the age of consent to be lowered to 10. She also rejected the idea that she opposed the law on incest, saying the document referred to by the Mail was written before she started to work at the organisation.
On the allegation that she was seeking to water down a proposed ban on child pornography, Harman said the NCCL had argued for measures to stop the criminalisation of pictures used for sex education or those taken by parents of their children on the beach or in the bath. She said anyone could apply to join the NCCL on payment of a fee and the PIE was just one of nearly 1,000 affiliated organisations.
"I was aware that because NCCL opposed censorship and supported gay rights, paedophiles had sought to exploit that and use NCCL as a vehicle to make their arguments. But by the time I came to work for NCCL this vile organisation had already been vigorously challenged within the organisation," she said.
In a separate statement, Dromey said he personally "took on" the PIE when he was chairman of the NCCL in 1976 and defeated a "loathsome motion" on the "so-called rights of paedophiles".
"As a lifelong opponent of evil men who abuse children, the accusations of the Daily Mail are untrue and beneath contempt," he said.
Labour sources said Miliband had also looked into the claims made by the Mail and "regards them as complete nonsense". Hewitt has not commented on the story.
Speaking to Newsnight, Harman rejected the "ugly insinuation" that her work was influenced by PIE. She said the group had been "challenged and pushed aside" in 1976 and all the "anxiety and controversy" about it was over by the time she arrived.
Harman said PIE was a front for "very bad people" and should not have existed but refused to say it was a mistake for the NCCL to take affiliation fees from the group. She accused the Mail of being a greater supporter of "indecency", claiming it was not above producing photos of "very young girls" in bikinis.
A spokesman for the Daily Mail criticised the MPs for failing to say sorry and claimed the "belated statements of Ms Harman and her husband – full of pedantry and obfuscation – failed to answer the Mail's central points and deny allegations the Mail has not made … as for smears, it is a newspaper's job to ask awkward and controversial questions – questions that in this instance are still awaiting a satisfactory answer," he added.
Last year Chakrabarti, who joined the organisation in 2001, issued an apology about the links between the NCCL and the PIE. In December, she said in a statement: "It is a source of continuing disgust and horror that even the NCCL had to expel paedophiles from its ranks in 1983 after infiltration at some point in the 70s."
She was involved (and the husband ) with a Crowd taking Payments from Pedos ,Hows it not true ?
Perhaps they didn't understand what PIE stood for ,and just thought it was another PIE they
could get their Finger into
What do you mean underage boys? Homosexuality was illegal -- there was no age to be over or under.
from the British tax payer for years for doing Fck All ....
Oct 5, 2017 -- 4:12PM, casemoney wrote:
Its Not true She was involved (and the husband ) with a Crowd taking Payments from Pedos ,Hows it not true ? Perhaps they didn't understand what PIE stood for ,and just thought it was another PIE theycould get their Finger into
Read it...you sound tipsy !
child pornography,What Kind of a fcking Idiot would Confuse Family Photos with CP ??
And quite Blatantly once Fees were Paid you were allowed under the Umberella ,Regardless.. ..
"I was aware that because NCCL opposed censorship and supported gay rights, paedophiles had sought to exploit that and use NCCL as a vehicle to make their arguments. But by the time I came to work for NCCL this vile organisation had already been vigorously challenged within the organisation," she said.
In a separate statement, Dromey said he personally "took on" the PIE when he was chairman of the NCCL in 1976 and defeated a "loathsome motion" on the "so-called rights of paedophiles".
"As a lifelong opponent of evil men who abuse children, the accusations of the Daily Mail are untrue and beneath contempt," he said.
Labour sources said Miliband had also looked into the claims made by the Mail and "regards them as complete nonsense".
Did she Know anything about the Above
PIE were paedophiles trying to legitimise themselves.
This thread is about Heath.
Are you trying to hijack it ?
Helping out the so called Refugees in the name of Civil Liberties ,that a small Percentage of them appear to want to Murder us is Irrelevant .
Were they drawing a line under the whole thing? Wasn't clear.
