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Chit Chat
The Hitler thread.
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He refused to believe warnings that Germany would invade, he was warned by Churchill, and had a spy in Tokyo who warned him, and had a German communist spy shot for warning him ,
That's how the working classes operate, totally illogical . |
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When he heard that the Germans had taken Minsk he visited his top generals and in a rage he reduced them to tears,
Molotov had to hand Zuchkov his handkerchief "We've fcuked it up ! " Stalin shouted, and disappeared for 3 days. |
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Yes , but that was an act of cowardice more than anything else, he feared Germany and feared being seen to break the pact and start adequate defences, even though he had been warned,
That's why he shot the spy who warned him, that is the dishonest way moral cowards act. |
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but it is honest in a ammoral kind of way lfc???
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not really jollysswagman, I mean he shot the messenger, that's what they do.
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but did the messenger not deserve to be shot?
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Yes, but only by Hitler, it's a bit much to find that Stalin wants to shoot you as well.
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if only hitler and stalin had shot each other, leaving me and you in charge lfc
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haha , well yes . I like war and I like peace, they seemed to be so much more simple and honourable then, than today.
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Then we were the heroes , no no I am not telling lies.
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no, no, no. i have gone off you. i like peace and i hate war.
peace ..... what a lovely word, who would deny that? war is such a coarse word. do the posh boys volunteer their own offspring for war? |
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you're quite right swagman, of course .
goodnight. |
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America had the greatest generals of WW2
Eisenhower kept the various allies happily working in concert won the war with minimal casualties and no major defeat. McArther in the Pacific campaign ( and his audacious campaign in Korea) may have been the greatest general of the 20c And Pattons 7th army in Italy , and 3rd army in Europe. |
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Not really doctor , Hitler had the majority of his forces in the west.
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Now America had to get its forces into Europe and into the Pacific campaign.
Against an enemy entrenched in Europe and the Pacific This was a much more difficult task than anything undertaken by the European forces |
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Hitler had the majority of his forces in the west.
That is not what I understood lfc. |
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Agraphobia....... Crippen....a terrible affliction !
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The Top 10 generals of WWII in no particular order imo
Manstein Rommell Mannerheim Zhukov Yamashita Guderian Rokossovsky Slim Patton Rundstedt |
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Dr C is quite right that the Germans did not have the majority of their forces in the west of course.
Though there were always substantial forces deployed against the western allies. |
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tobermory, the Asian theatre of war in WW2 was seven times larger than the European theatre. America`s mobilisation was the most complex in history and this was the task that faced MaCarthur. At the same time Eisenhower had to obtain a foothold in Europe and defeat Germany, again a much more difficult task than any facing the European powers.
That is why the American generals were the greatest in WW2, their responsibilities, and the breadth and nature and complexity of those responsibilities were much greater than any European general. |
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do you know between 1941 and 42 150,000 Russians were executed for cowardice. How many American`s ? the US army was more prudent in valuing a soldiers life.
Did Hitler have most of his forces facing the western powers rather than east. well at the end of the war German forces killed or captured by Soviet Union 5 million german forces killed or captured by allies 8 million These figures show that the allies were almost one and a half times as effective at neutralising German soldiers as their Russian army counterparts. (whose commanders of course didn't have to worry so much about the niceities and difficulties in taking prisoners faced by the American generals) |
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Of course, that was why I included them in the figures .
They knew they would be in danger of being shot by the Russian generals, now if you think that is an example of good military leadership by the Russian generals I disagree. I would cross them off your list of great generals of WW2 right there. |
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You see people might think that Russia played a greater part in winning the war because they shot and killed a given number of Germans. but of course that didn't mean necessarily that they shot those soldiers on the field of battle.
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The Asian conflict being mainly water? No that's what made it so difficult .
British and Chinese killed more Japanese on land than America ? What's China got to do with it, they were defeated until America showed up. And I think 100,000 British troops surrendered in Singapore, if it was so easy , Rather like the European conflict when there was the danger of 300, 000 British troops surrendering at Dunkirk. Now that was the nature of the task facing the American generals. |
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I'm always more interested in the political shenanigans that causes these wars. Like who backed Hitler to enable him to gain power and for what reason?
Then there's the pact between Stalin and Hitler of which little is mentioned, but would have been sure defeat for the allies had it been escalated. Yet there was never any chance of that happening. All this has to be viewed in conjunction with the causes of WW1. Supposedly precipitated by an assassination. What was Britain doing making binding treaties with France, when France was doing the same with Russia? Couldn't they visualise the inevitable outcome of that? WW2 was inevitable after the conditions imposed on the Germans after WW1, so would the Germans have taken such strong issue with communist Russia without Hitler? |
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Like who backed Hitler to enable him to gain power and for what reason?
Could you not say the same about Saddam Dr C? Anyways I could put a lot of input into this thread but as I only type with one finger it can get a tad frustrating. What I will say is that my late father was a desert rat and fought against Rommel and his army. According to my father things never changed that much in North Africa until Montgomery was put in charge. A cautious general by all means but a man who refused to go on the attack until he was provided with the right amount of men and equipment, eventually ending the war in NA. I think all schoolchildren aged over fourteen should be given the choice to watch the splendid documentary The World at War. It's been over forty years since it has been made but I know I will not see a better one. You would think a lot of lessons could be learned from it, but sadly not. |
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Sepp Dietrich. Clearly the best General in WW2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03RdunM5zyk |
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The attack on Pearl Harbour.
The Americans were warned three days before the attack that something was brewing, and records show an attack was expected. Didn't Roosevelt move the bulk of the American fleet to Pearl before the attack, and didn't an American admiral get removed for protesting about that decision? The vulnerability of Pearl Harbour to attack along with that, has fuelled many conspiracy theories. For an attack of that nature would give the Americans a legitimate reason to go to war. And how fortunate that the American aircraft carriers were out at sea when the attack was launched. The circumstances surrounding the Americans entering WW2 are as dodgy as the when they joined WW1. |
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Apparently Churchill was aware of the impending attack but rightly never informed the Americans. By that I mean they would have no choice but to get involved.
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During WW2 US forces sank 611 Japanese warships , 21 of Japan's 25 aircraft carriers, 2117 merchant vessels and over 400,000 Japanese sailors were killed .
The Chinese navy sank a total of 3 of Japan's merchant vessels. US destroyed 20,000 Japanese aircraft . To aid China they flew in 650,000 tons of military equipment By the end of the war the 14th Air Force had over 20,000 troops and 1000 aircraft based in China During the course of WW2 fully 80% of Japanese battle fatalities were inflicted by US forces while only 10% by Chinese forces . After the war the US never occupied a single inch of Chinese territory . |
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the 14th air division based in China shot down 2,908 Japanese aircraft, losing 193.
They sank 99 warships and 18,000 smaller vessels transporting Japanese troops and supplies along China's inland waterways. They destroyed bridges and trucks and killed over 60,000 Japanese troops preventing further Japanese atrocities and the Japanese 6th army determined it had to retreat from southern China. |
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After Japan's surrender in 1945 the WW2 allies decided to punish Japanese aggression by restoring all the territories that Japan annexed from china including Manchuria, Formosa , and the Korean Peninsula .
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Montgomery obviously did a very thorough job , but i think generals should be given higher marks for winning battles against the odds , rather than when they have more men and tanks + air superiority.