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Nelson Mandela. Hero or villain?
Nelson Mandela. Hero or villain?
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Replies: 111
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maybe we could have a brexit partion lfc ?
would that be acceptable to farage, and who could deny that? |
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That`s a vote, totally meaningless if you are within the 40% who voted against,
Divide the country after the vote, it should not be a secret ballot, it would be a named ballot. And then you decide your country by whichever way you vote. |
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Yes of course, Brexit means brexit.
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There are 27 countries to choose from.
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how many countries in Africa, I don't know.
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If every country in the world becomes the same that will not be a good thing.
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any sensitive person knows that.
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Many people were against the White ruling party because they where the minority, however out of the fifty plus countries that make up the continent of Africa the vast majority were ruled by minorty governments be it black minority's. No one seemed to care or protest about that
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jed.davison
04 Jul 17 10:27 It is mind-boggling, when innocent people are being killed all over the world in the name of ideology and religion, that someone like Mandela is still revered as if he were some kind of Saint. I think he is revered as some kind of saint because of the number of lives he probably saved with his courage, foresight and leadership after he was released from prison. Of course we don't murder people over here. Our security forces were never involved in the collusion and murder of British Citizens. Our Politicians were never involved in collusion to murder British citizens were they? |
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Of course they were, the conduct of all the people you mention - I presume you mean in Northern Ireland chiefly, or at least among other places - was utterly shameful.
Without going into the utter shambles over which he presided when he took power, as I said on the other thread, 27 years' incarceration would help one reflect on one's own shameful conduct and do something to redress the balance upon one's release. |
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what about george washington, michael collins, simon bolivar
oliver cromwell, david ben-gurion and numerous others? |
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Anyone who is a member of a terrorist organisation such as the IRA, involved in a campaign of bombing and murder against Britain and British people is in danger of being shot by the British army.
That's how it is . |
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That's the second time you've asked me that question today donny, and I did reply above - perhaps it got lost in among all lfc's posts.
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Anyone else mentioned by donny, from Collins to Ben Gurian is in the same category .
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even Washington , the British people are fair and quite impartial in their ways.
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I think the white people in South Africa should go down on bended knee in praise and thanks to Saint Mandela.
The rest maybe should consider why he didn't appropriate all the mineral wealth of the country from the Terrorists for the good of all South Africans! |
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Why should they go down on bended knee please?
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Because the country didn't become a battle field with a slaughter of the innocents.
I am not saying South Africa isn't a great country with great people and possibilities. It is sad to see what path it is going down now but lest we forget jed 30 years ago we could not expect such a trouble free path to one man one vote. Shirley you can see that. |
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had mandela not had to wait all those years he may well have been able to shape
a much better south africa |
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I think the trouble-free path to one man one vote is down to FW de Klerk more than anybody, considering it was he who brought it about?
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He had to wait all those years because of his involvement in scores of innocent deaths, not because he missed the ****ing bus.
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had he had a vote as a young man he wouldnt have needed the direct action
can you imagine not having a vote in your own country because of the colour of your skin |
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No I can't, but I don't suppose I'll have to wait that long to experience it.
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I have to say trying to pin the badge on Mandela as villain of the peace is wide of the mark. Without him the country would be basket case. Thousands if not tens of thousands may have died. On the scale of "terrorist's" Mandela seems insignificant in that particular country!
To call him a " terrorists " seems hippocritcal from people in this country who allowed our Prime Minister to send in thousands of our soldiers into another country for a reason still unknown to kill thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of people have died as a consequence of the engagement that we were part of. Is Mandela really on that scale? |
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a nelson mandela will fight for your rights
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It is Iraqi people killing thousands of people in Iraq, not Britain.
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Sorry WD, I don't deal in degrees of evil. Mandela killed, and encouraged others to kill, innocents. The fact that some other people have killed more innocents does not lessen his crimes, and nor I'm afraid does his subsequent conversion to the path of peace.
Umkonto we Sizwe's aims were clear, its methods brutal, and he was its founder. That is pretty much that as far as I'm concerned. You can have your debate about whether Blair or whoever is more evil, but I just don't believe in League tables for such things. |
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we wouldnt be here without direct action jed
the list of others you casually dismiss include some good men who others consider bad |
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What is a country, and who should be allowed to vote? it is not as simple as it might seem to be.
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Exactley lfc!
We were the ones responsible for allowing this to happen then we walked away saying it is not our problem except it is because the lunes over there want to come over here to kill us and we have lunes over here who use it as an excuse because their lives are so miserable that they want to kill us too and use it as some sort of pathetic excuse. Thousands are flooding out of that God forsaken region of the world and it is causing chaos to any number of countries and we are the ones who helped facilitate it with our acts of terrorism! |
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The world knows Mandela as the man who spent over two decades in jail, came out as the leader of the nation and did not go down the path of revenge. I have never heard anyone talk about Mandela's life before jail or even his trial(doesn't mean im saying he never killed). His claim to fame was the way he responded after becoming the president. He is and will be a hero to his people. And that's all that matters. Do you really think his people worry about what the rest of the world thinks? They dont give a feck.
We waste no time in honoring a war veteran, especially in America, even though its been a long time since we fought a legitimate war. What exactly do these war veterans do? They kill of course, on the orders of politicians, not because their life was put in danger. And that makes them honorable! What Mandela did, or what his subsequent leaders do should not be our problem. If he was a murderer, then be it. If his people love him for being a murderer, its their choice. We are no one to determine if he was a villain or a hero, especially when we haven't yet clarified a hero to whom. Probably something on similar lines for guvera and Castro. They didn't sell roses during the guerilla wars did they? But they did emerge as heros not just in their countries but around the world too. They were heroes though the capitalists around the world would of course not agree with that. All that matters is which side of the fence you are on, the other side is always the evil one. |
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So apart from bLiar and Mandela everyone else is a saint jed and worthy of our respect?
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not at all wd, we liberated them from a brutal and evil dictator. If they don`t behave and be grateful then I put the blame on them.
I`m like that. |
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The only mistake Blair and Bush made was of being naïve, they had good intentions.
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Sorry WD, I don't know how you've extrapolated that from what I said above, I thought it was pretty clear.
As for you detraveller, if you believe impoverishing one's countrymen, bringing the world as close as it's come to nuclear war and imprisoning and torturing dissidents wherever you find them makes Castro a hero, then good luck to you. |
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detraveller
I didn't have you down as an American? |
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You see jed, all I said was he was a hero to his people, not that I am a fan of his. Dont make things up
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he`s not, just another one who likes to lecture America on how it should behave
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he will be lecturing Britain next.
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As i said earlier too, Osama bin Laden is still a hero in many parts of the world. For his fans, he was the freedom fighter who blocked the russians. he died in 1999, when according to the last journalist ever to meet him he was a dialysis twice a week.
There's also the OBL that was involved in 9/11 and we know him as a terrorist. He was funnily enough killed in a night time raid and dumped in the sea. That doesn't mean he isn't an icon of the afghan resistance against foreign occupation. He is still a hero to them, and a terrorist for us. Just depends on which side you look from. |