As it is Sunday. How does your religion treat new ideas?

This was in germany.  Good try.

Can't you give it a rest, ffs?

I'm just wondering. Everyone here is complaining about the media all the time. Why the hell do you read guardian or listen to BBC when you are so damn sure they have a specific agenda?

Also, you say yourself all the time that these people still live in the stone age and follow old traditions that aren't relevant in today's society. But then they do exactly what you say they do and you act surprised?

You should really take it easy. Or do something that actually helps instead of whining about it all time on a forum.

I just love this new liberalism they are introducing. Funny how they want to stamp it out. No arguments. Not allowed to question. No debate.   Just a clear fatwa.  Nice isn't it.

mobo, not allowed to bet, moisok is still waiting to be allowed to
post in gruniad comments section

we suffer his rants as he cant post there

his audience continues to decline

It is most important to show the new 'challenging' nature of the religion of peace.
Now trying to keep up to date in the modern world.
The hope is that living in the western world the culture will rub off on them and they will change.
This is how liberal thought sees it.  This is an example of the attempt to alter their approach.
A most interesting response.

Wow that sure got three out of the woodwork in quick time.  I wonder if they hover over the keyboard just waiting to pounce on radical ideas to change the religion they so want to defend.
I would have thought they would applaud this move. Instead they want to defend the religion's  conservatives.
Nice to know where they stand.

Yes, that's it.
It's everybody else, not you.

At least we know what would happen if you tried to liberalise the cult.  It is a shame that even a tiny change should illicit such a threatening stance.  Now they know the problem.  But this threatening behaviour to other issues, like appostates, is well known even in this country.

apostates

There's certainly three on here who want to shut the debate down.
I wonder why?

Because it isn't a debate. It's some ranting on a betting forum. Which would be OK, only it isn't anything like the first or only rant on the topic.

It is rather odd.  And a guardian article too.  Normally they suck the guardian's narrative up like it is their life blood.  But oh no, not today.  It is the wrong storyline. Whoops!!!

'That religion' cannot be questioned, but every aspect of our religions, culture and society is fair game for lefty liberals. FFS.

detraveller, "You should really take it easy. Or do something that actually helps instead of whining about it all time on a forum". POT KETTLE BLACK.

don't use start poking your considerable nose in here foxy

I will have you know there are a few who are trying to liberalise the cult but are being stopped.

There are at least three who seem to celebrate that fact

see the three who pounced within 30 minutes  most illuminating ha ha

"don't use start poking your considerable nose in here foxy" I nose you know, Laterzzzzzz.

careful!!!  You are teetering on the edge of christmas card exclusion. Final warning for your impertinence.

Lefties are very adept at suppressing debate, cliched insults and hypocrisy are their usual tactics.

You can't even post a guardian article without at least three of them jumping all over you.  Amazing coincidence within half an hour of one another.  Makes you think.

No surprise to me unfortunately.

Depp issued a fatwa on Trump at Glasto. A hat (sic) crime shirley? Has he been charged yet? He apologised so I guess that's ok then...

I treated Sunday the same as any other day being an atheist

It's just BORING.....

Same old crap, regurgitated, as nauseum.
It isn't an opposing view - which so many of you want to see or claim is happening already (even though it isn't).
No 'debate' is being suppressed. there ISN'T a debate. Just a non-stop anti muslim, anti 'lefty', anti "Yeah, spot on bruv", anti anything that isn't in with the rest of the gang.

There's only so many times you can or should make it a topic of conversation, surely.

I have to laugh at those who try to smother the issue. It makes you wonder who they are linked to in life does it not?
It appears there is a europe wide agenda to close the debate down. Not allowed. It is too rude to probe the activities of one particular cult. The other religions are fair game for critique and assessment. So why not this one?  Of course they are not allowed within it itself are they. Submission being the name of the game.
So these three on here are doing just that - submitting to it.
Good luck with that one.

"The true object of propaganda is neither to convince nor even to persuade, but to produce a uniform pattern of public utterance in which the first trace of unorthodox thought reveals itself as a jarring dissonance."

Leonard Shapiro writing of Stalin.

*Schapiro

You can, I'm quite certain, find a statement to suit any side of any proposition, if you look online!

You are probably right, Studyform, I read that one in a book.

Leonard Schapiro's book is called "The Communist Party of the Soviet Union" should you wish to read it.

Jun 25, 2017 -- 1:47PM, moisok wrote:

There's certainly three on here who want to shut the debate down.I wonder why?

Your obsession with convincing the world that Islam is bad will get you nowhere. Bombs go off everyday around the world either in the name of islam or in islamic countries. Yet you feel you still need to convince the world that islam is bad?

As I have told you many times, all you are doing is playing around labels. The left wing is happy as long as you don't do more than label them as islam apoligists, liberals, debate suppressers etc. The right wingers ply their trade using the left's tactics. Together they form a family. Labor/Tory is the same story. Both do their tricks together knowing very well as long as their faults are only affecting each other, no one else can enter the politicial scene. So if you dont like the Tories you run to labor and if you dont like labor you run to tories. Together they form another family.

I have no interest in suppressing your debates. If I had, I would have mentioned how a guy ran over muslims in london the other day or today in manchester i guess after they said their eid players. But I have no interest in suppressing your debate, or proving anything against the point you are making. All I am saying is, its getting boring. We don't need to know what fatwa's they are issuing or what mosques they are making. I am solely interested in what our authorities are doing. Which is either nothing or helping promote Islam. And in that respect, you are doing absolutely nothing other than playing around with labels and screaming inside a bubble that the govt is happy for you to stay in.

If I join your side today and start condemning Islam, where exactly do you plan to take me? Will we just be waiting for giardian t publish their next article so we can smash it? or BBC to start their next multicultural tv program so we can criticise them for their liberal views? Or Sadiq Khan to make his next speech so we can talk about how he's defending and promoting his cult? Or some random Turkish Imam's fatwa about some mosque in Berlin?

Do you still not see that there are a select few items that are thrown out there every now and then so you can talk about it and vent your anger? if I am indeed a muslim apologist, or say a saudi agent tasked to spread Islam and muslims in Europe, and suppress debates about islam as you call it, I wll have absolutely no objection at all to you doing all of the above 4 as long as you are kept busy in that and I am doing my job and bringing my people in. In fact I will be happy to join you and ensure you are kept busy with guardian, bbc, sadiq khan and random fatwas. Which is why I keep telling you, that your attempts at convincing the world that Islam is bad will get you nowhere, other than spinning around inside your own bubble.

well, so now you know.

They say we are Christian nations but we have never been truly Christian.
It's half measures. When the Arabs from Saudi Arabia? plowed into the twin
towers the first thing they did was go to War in the middle east. No turning
the cheek. But the Arabs were responding to troops in Mecca and soldiers
already in the middle east. Both sides were always willing to take up the sword.
We're always fighting in some corner of the world and we keep an excuse sheet to
justify our actions. There are very few REAL wars that are justified by our
taking up arms. The second world war being one. But again it could have been avoided
if Germany had not been bankrupted by war reparations. By treating people badly, we
get a backlash of extreme polarization either Fascism or communism. Then we are left
with monsters to deal with. Monsters we created by being callous in the first place. 

"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult
and not tried." - Gilbert K. Chesterton

they weren't bankrupt when they went to war, they were poor and deserved to be so.

they got off very lightly, imo. especially after WW2.

perhaps we were too nice to them after WW1?

Of course Germany envied Britain. They saw Britains vast and beautiful Empire and thought they should be the same.
Quite impossible, envy like that is a kind of insanity.

GK Chesterton..? Won a few Bob backing that

Not bankrupt?  a million marks banknote for a loaf? nobody would
give you a loaf for it? This is when Hitler got a hold.
the new party sprung up out of a desperation in the people for change.

what a hero