Smart meters

Big brother yet again

Aye, me thinks the same.

doctors say they can effect the beating of the heart,
so whats that all about??certainly not going to have one in this house

My parents have just had one installed.

It goes into overdrive when the kettle or shower is on. Ignorance is bliss imo.

terry, A woman I know swears they fill the house with uhealthy waves of some kind, she is an alternative therapist tho.

My quarterly electric bill is circa £75.  I only use as much water as I need for a cuppa in my kettle.

Why would I want a smart meter?

Utterly pointless, puts £75 on an annual bill and makes meter readers redundant. All for what ? for people to turn there oven off during cooking ?

Much more should be made for people to switch to lower powered white goods, i doubt people even know the wattage of there fridge, tv or pc.

I switched from 850w to 400w pc, amazing savings in one year.

there you go saddo,oddly ive been told anything that starts with "smart"including of course phones gave off unhealthy waves

Basic stuff we learnt at school - the VIR tree ...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/question501.htm

the bit you need to know is that the power consumption can be monitored remotely ,the meters talk to each other wirelessly  and pass info on and one is a master that sends the info back ,so must be a gsm modem or connected to the  phone network ,so not sure how that works for the punter that has that one ,the power for the wireless will not be at the grids expense imo but not certain .But the real "smart" bit is once the entire country is covered and some foreign GOV that is supplying your energy cartels up  and ups the ante on everyone to keep the shareholders happy ,you dont pay ,computer says no and sends a signal to master and it passes the message down the line and the meters motorised switch does a rotation and yor lighting candles .
how smarts that

it's a way of weeding out the mad scientists. they look at the kilojoules and can see immediately if you are running an octilerian neutronium generator.
they then send Doc Savage round to shut it all down.

Cannabis Factory finder

Easiest way to save money is to switch to LED light bulbs.

its not really as simple as that ,if you take the cost of new style "money saving " bulbs over the last 10-15 years ,the life expectancy of these bulbs is claimed in hours lol to bamboozle ,also its the amount of times they are switched on and off and temp used at ect but the point is that in the northern hemisphere bulbs are used mostly in the winter ,your old incandescent 150w  which lasted for years produced a lot of heat ,that heat was radiated into the room and simply meant the boiler or other heating system done less work ,as an energy saving exorcise its flawed for most users and the increased cost of the new age bulbs meant the consumer seen a net loss .The main reason the big push was on was to do with smoothing the consumption on the grid and reducing the cost of  maintenance of it.Many new style bulbs do not last the amount of time claimed although the old style bayonet is partly to blame imo ,the eddison small screw fitting is far better .Leds are ok but not cheap and peeps should hold onto their reciepts and take emm back when they chuck it long before the claimed time .LED is the way forward and now they are much cheaper but energy costs are still rising at a ridic rate ,partly due to the amount of green energy feed in tarriffs being applied to the consumers bill ,the only way to avoid is by having solar pannels on the roof , its a poor to rich subsidy and all this smart meter stuff is just part of that ,making sure the consumers have no choice .They want a grid full of small of buyers and sellers with no cost to them and they just coin it in on the back off rip off prices .Whats hap in merka is small scale closed systems where local small scale  suppliers are selling to others at low cost and all storing solar via batteries at peak times of overproduction ,the future of the grid will mean  peak usage cost of power  will increase but solar in many countries is at a standstill due to overproduction at peak sun hours when thar are no buyers .
this is why they want smart meters so they can go to the next stage and change tarrifs ,they tell me they offer the consumer the chance to send info by the hour ,this is in effect giving your power usage to be monitored in real time ,this info will tell a lot about your lifestyle and will in the end be used to hike the price of electricity ,also when the gov feed in tarrifs end sellers and buyers will both be shafted upside sown by the exchange ,a bit like on here really .

not good for you either according to some doctors,is there a trend here?

LED that is

newspapers told you these new bulbs affect your eyesight,
you need a few hours of daylight to repair the damage done to
your eyes by them. conspiracy to stop you reading?

Re: 'Smart meters', I am an electrical engineer and have fitted these for both EDF and British Gas. I have installed the first generation aka SMETS 1, they rolled these out as quickly as possible to meet imposed targets. The disadvantage with these is that they are not compatible as 'Smart' with other suppliers, don't get me wrong you can still change supplier, you will just lose the 'smart' element and it will revert to being a 'dumb' meter which will need to be manually read, which as you'll probably agree is pretty nonsensical.
Breadnbutter is right they use an integrated modem with a bog standard SIM card to send the information to your supplier. If you are dual fuel both meters communicate via Bluetooth. The customer has the option to have a SMD (Smart meter display) at no extra charge which gives an indication of your usage and you can look at historical usage, unit price, running tally amongst other bits and bobs.
They have already found out that the data collection set up for SMETS 1 will not work meaning millions already wasted due to a complete overhaul of the system being required.
SMETS 2 is the second generation and in theory should be multi compatible and these are now beginning to be rolled out.
Most of the meter readers are NOT losing their jobs, they are being retrained to fit these things.
The main advantage of these meters is accurate billing. Would I have one ? No, not at the moment I want the technology sorted first and I reckon that will take a least a couple of years. Do I believe the conspiracy theories? IMHO no. As far as I'm aware you are NOT compelled to have one but due to the industry being regulated your meter will need to be changed after a duration of time anyway, they can enforce that and can use a warrant to do so if required, although very rarely.

Happy to answer any questions if I can,

Cheers.

As with smart cards on the railway
they are only as smart as the people using them

i've been sneakily siphoning off energy to my home planet.
Fk your smart meters.

When you say not compatible with some suppliers you mean they don't have the software to read them remotely ? You seem to be confusing the term smart ,the smart bit they are selling the public on is the ability to see on a panel the real time usage,or do you mean some don't have the capability to accurately do this ? That option  is good but can be had with other types of retro attached  tech ,a mini clamp induction sensor simply fitted at the meter which bluetooths info to a panel ,the reason they don't want these is the way they charge for the electricity ,it's non standard and set up to confuse and make breaking down and converting khw into an understandable format ,ie usage over time ,they all charge differently ,so many kwh at one rate and then another,a separate clamp meter and comp app should be the way forward so customers can see a standard cost and judge/compare with other suppliers ,too much estimation of costs in this sector ,all hiding things imo. The smart bit seems lost in the idiosyncrasy of the nature of electricity pricing. You mention gsm modem but did not mention the how the data is finally  transmitted  ,my understanding is its by SMS , the SMS system is far from flawless or reliable  and  can be overloaded and back up ,texts lost ,unencrypted data intercepted ,corrupted ,ect ,its reliability is dependant on many factors and could see failure in this area causing problems ,of course there will be safeguards but there must be big question marks over this smart technologies  usefulness compared
with the total loss of control to the consumer ,the energy industry wants it all its own way,proper regulation and standardisation of tarrifs is overdue ,deregulation has not not worked for consumers as well as it has for providers and that's the reason it was done supposedly ,increased choice in a competitive market leading to value ,it's worked other way ,it's a rip off sector .

its y2k mark two

Y2k was a completely different scenario and  bares no comparison of relativity to  smart meters phobia.         I have deliberately kept away from irrational reasons to oppose them ,perhaps I should have went down that road ,poor trolls are starving.                                    Did I mention the wireless interfering with hearing aids ,causing probs with pacemakers ,causing TV signal to breakup ,cancer ,causing false teeth to be swallowed ,hairloss ,keeping the hamster up at night ,erection dissfunction,loss of phone signal ,eyeball boiling if meter can't com with cell tower base station or causing old fluffy cats with micochips to  spontaneously  combust

Old fluffy cats with microchips  spontainioulsy combusting would prob be a positive ,scratch that one .

The main distinction between a 'smart' meter and a 'dumb' meter is that the former can be configured remotely and in turn can send the reading remotely to the supplier. The 'SMD' is an OPTIONAL extra, the meter can still be 'smart' whether the customer chooses to have the display device or not. Configuration is the key here if the meter could NOT be dialed into via the config' team whilst you were onsite then the meter would not be able to send any information to the supplier remotely and subsequently it would not pair with the SMD it would be deemed 'DUMB' as any information from the meter would have to be accessed manually. The difference between the energy monitors you can buy online etc that often utilise a clamp on the consumers live cable and the SMD supplied with the smart meter is that the SMD is configured to that particular customer's tariff and displays information based on their correct unit price and standing charge price, the more generic energy monitor gives a more general indication of energy usage especially as in most cases customers' do not know their unit price or daily standing charge. The SMD is supplied with rechargeable batteries and uses a miniscule amount of electricity.
The meter is equipped, as mentioned with a GSM modem which utilises a free roaming sim card that locates the nearest mobile phone mast and sends the information via WAN (Wide Area Network), to be honest I am not au fait with the whole data capture process but don't think the info is sent via SMS but could be wrong. What I do know is that the inherent problem with these meters is their capability to gain a signal in order to work as they are designed, if the signal was not between the parameters of 0 - 90 db then remote configuration was nigh on impossible. I fitted many in rural areas where no signal was obtained and customers' were not happy.
"When you say not compatible with some suppliers you mean they don't have the software to read them remotely ?"
Basically the suppliers were getting further and further behind in getting the required amount of meters' in customers' properties as they did not agree on one particular type of 'Smart' meter, they started fitting their own prototype with their own data capture system which other suppliers would not be able to tap into hence the need for a major data capture overhaul.
Do I think the whole idea is a massive waste of time and money ? Yep. Will we all foot the bill whether you have one or not ? Most definitely.

On the telly they had some people on who'd had them fitted, but when they switched suppliers the meters wouldn't work with the different supplier.
They warned us off having them installed.

What good is it knowing how much leci you're using at a given time anyway. You're still going to use it and have to pay for it, so what's the point?

My thoughts exactly, Dr.

Pushing them is something dreamed up by someone in authority to appear "green" and loved by the power companies.

Do you know how much it'll cost to roll them out? £11 billion quid apparently, probably higher. That's bigger than BITO's bank. We all end up paying for them even if you dont' want one as nobody pays up front. And on top of that the savings are relatively small. I'm guessing TheMoneyShot will back me up, AFAIK they will have to be replaced more often than the old style that were far simpler and trusted technology. So on top of the roll out cost, the ongoing cost is higher.

And on top of THAT - you can't even place Snake on them. Smart? A nokia 3310 was smarter.

Exactly JC mate, and very good point about 'snake', that would've been the clincher for me, but no snake no smart meter as far as I'm concerned

May 30, 2017 -- 2:17PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

On the telly they had some people on who'd had them fitted, but when they switched suppliers the meters wouldn't work with the different supplier.They warned us off having them installed. What good is it knowing how much leci you're using at a given time anyway. You're still going to use it and have to pay for it, so what's the point?

Happened to me. Got one fitted, then changed supplier. Just under a year ago. I have not had a bill for gas (except an estimated one) with the new supplier, so in a few weeks I start getting my gas for free, as the back-billing kicks in and they can only charge me for the previous 12 months from when they sort it out.

Free gas. Nice.

They can Remotely cut off the Supply ,is a bit of a Downer .

I thought even if not "smart" they functioned as basic meters so will still meter, you just have to do it the old way?

Why are they useful?

The problem we have is infrastructure limitations and peaks in demand. So we either build loads more power stations and power lines, or we use what we have more efficiently.

Roll forward a few years. Your white goods will all be intelligent and will communicate with your meter to operate when electricity is cheapest. The price of elec will vary every half hour - maybe even across suppliers - so you could switch your washing machine on overnight and the machine will effectively put out a contract to the elec companies to buy X amount of kWh over the next 3 hours. The cheapest wins.

Then what about fridges - they could have a battery in them to store elec from overnight to have enough to get through the next day without using the grid. The saving in power would outweigh the extra initial cost (maybe!).

Lots of options. But having worked in the industry, they will just feck it up as usual.

I would like the idea of a smart meter if it was truly smart AND it wasn't basically spyware or remotely controllable by the power companies.
They are really pushing in essence getting virtually realtime analysis of your power usage which allows building a huge picture of your lifestyle.
When you get up, cook, have your mid evening cuppa, go on holiday etc.

But telling me my usage? I don't care. I'm not going to put the kettle on a different time becuase a meter tells me, or sit in the dark.
It's a total con.

If for example I could get cheap off peak power and it could tell my washing machine that, perhaps it would be useful.
Having said that, last time I looked at Economy 7 or whatever, it seemed like they took back with the other hand, PEAK rates were higher than normal.

I'm sure they'd just do the same.

I have got a smart meter and health reasons aside, I like it. 

I find it handy when i go to sleep or go away to see that everything electric is off without going around checking sockets etc.  I now shower by heating the electric immersion heater instead of using the central heating boiler as it is far cheaper.  You can see exactly how much it is costing you and I now find I only need to have it on for thirty minutes.  Again instead of using the central heating I use the fan heater as I only need to use it for an hour or two in the depths of winter as I live in a modern block which is very well insulated.

Also I am billed monthly with the exact amount I have used so I always know what I am using.  You can also tell easily when it would be better if you were on economy 7 as the two rates are displayed and then added together for your bill.

I don't like the health scares about them, but I will look into that when I have time.

My bills are around £6 a week for heating, hot water and electric.

£6 a week, including heating for ALL bills, does that include winter? That's only £250 a year?

Do you live in Barbados under an overpowered streetlamp?!

I must be that a quarter!

Yes that includes winter!  I only put my fan heater on when the temperature roughly is below ten degrees. And that doesn't happen a lot lately.

As I said I live in a modern block built only three years ago with the latest in insulation.  It also helps that I live right in the middle of the block with two flats below and two above and one each side so I am getting the benefit of their central heating.

If the insulation is so good Annie you don't  get any benefit from the neighbours CH ,i find it diff to understand how using the immersion is cheaper than a boiler if indeed your boiler is gas ,even if it was electric it would be the same ,makes no sense normally a combi in a new house would feed the shower and provide the hot water on demand ,that's the whole reason for the  saving ,although maybe a tank full of hot water is keeping Annies house warm ,must be super duper insulation (hope its fireproof).
Something is not right Annie ,the standing charge is prob  £2 a week ,it does not compute Annie .
As for knowing everything is off ,everything is never off unless you switch it all off at the mains and even then your smart meter would still be chewing through the juice ,of course that will prob not show on the monitor and them costs along with the other hidden charges will already be hidden in the tariff.
Maybe your on some community scheme and get free electricity from solar on the roof or something like that ,some power stations pump lecky and heat to local communities ,can you see a big chimney from yor window Annie

If the insulation is so good Annie you don't  get any benefit from the neighbours CH

Annie lives in a block, only the outside walls of the building are insulated.

Jun 1, 2017 -- 2:21PM, annie. wrote:

Yes that includes winter!  I only put my fan heater on when the temperature roughly is below ten degrees. And that doesn't happen a lot lately.As I said I live in a modern block built only three years ago with the latest in insulation.  It also helps that I live right in the middle of the block with two flats below and two above and one each side so I am getting the benefit of their central heating.

do you need any company at night ANNIE

  cardenden  -   no my own company is fine, thank you

[b]Annie lives in a block, only the outside walls of the building are insulated.[/b]

How do you know what walls in Annies block are insulated ,modern builds would use some sort of sound proofing and insulation ,probably incorporating fire proofing ,could be the kind of block used at the least but it will have internal insulation of some kind ,your talking about the wall cavity or something else .
have no eye deer tbh

I agree, breadnbutter, that a combi would be cheaper but unfortunately because it is a new build flat I don't think they are fitted.

I have a new fangled heating system that is pretty useless.  I put the hot water on for a week and deliberately did not use it.  I worked out the charge was about £6, far more than putting the immersion on when i needed it.  This new system is a nightmare and I have been waiting over three years for them to tell me the cost of it.  They initially set it at £8 a week, recoverable according to how much you used it, but then could not get the new fangled computer to work out each flats costs.  However because I complained and they took a reading they put it down to £2 a week for heating and hot water but as I don't use it at all they owe me that as well as what i paid before.  They are still working on it! 

As I said I don't need the central heating.  I don't need any heat for about ten months of the year and only the fan heater on occasionally.

ok Annie ,no worries

You are right about the electric, breadnbutter, but I know from the smart meter that the lowest it is when almost everything is off is 15, so if it is more than that I know that I have left something on.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Well there you go Annie.

You've left the electric blanket on and it's sent sofiakenny to sleep.

It might warm up a bit if crags popped in for a cuppa!

My granny used to say she had a magic hot water bottle that kept warm all through the night

Grandad just chuckled with a wry smile .

It might warm up a bit if crags popped in for a cuppa!

oh no, please

I am just getting used to being able to post on chit chat, don't spoil it

Although it looks like sofiakenny has decided to take his place

annie, ignore it, by IT I mean him,.....Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn. - George Bernard Shaw.block it and you won't have to read IT's drivel.

you snidey whatsanme foxy
what a creep
you should be ashamed of your self you sexist pig

annie - watch out for greeks bearing gifts and all that

well said moisok, I don't care what the others say about you, your OK in my book. smarmsmarm

I knew I could block the posts of crags, foxy, but he was saying such awful things about me being a liar and a man that I just couldn't bear that chit chatters might believe him.

Do not fret annie..I am in absolutely no doubt regarding your sexuality.

annie. 01 Jun 17 22:05 Joined: 22 Sep 06

You are right about the electric, breadnbutter, but I know from the smart meter that the lowest it is when almost everything is off is 15, so if it is more than that I know that I have left something on.


yea but thats not really what smart meters are about and as already covered there is no protocal for the data format they use and as such if you changed supplier you could well lose the ability to use the panel and see how much lecky your using .

There are simple and cheap options to have this facility and some energy suppliers gave them away to certain groups of people ,like pensioners ,an attached clip on sensor that does the same thing and does it independently of the meter and without  the provider being in control of the panel .

Whats occurring is typical ,a rush from big buisiness to install meters and claim the customer ,as far as i know there is nothing to prevent anyone taking one out and installing there own meter,as long as its commissioned and a certified meter for domestic use .The rush to install meters is going to be their downfall imo and it could leave the lecky supply vulnerable to hack attack or customers at the mercy of a computer that goes wrong ,why would anyone want a meter that could be switched off remotely by a comp in this day and age of hacking ? i would never allow one over the doorstep for that simple reason ,and the ability to pay my bill how and when i choose ,not when some conglomerate threatens to switch me off remotely ,what conrtrol will anyone have then ? the industry will run amok ,even more than it does already .

i think they are a bad thing and would appose ,i already have a good clamp sensor blue toothing info to a panel that lets me see if claimed power consumption is actual power consumption ,what i pay for lecky is the hard bit to work out as the tariffs are so damned complicated with no industry standard for how they charge customers for a KWH .

Well said BB.

THINK BRITISH AIRWAYS