Why do the government and establishment pander to radical Islam?

bottle jobs perhaps ?

many in the government and establishment are not British, or English.

many hate Britain and would be happy to destroy it.

to create a peaceful democratic country is a difficult thing.
they seem to think it is easy, I don`t know why.

This, and other governments have long favoured Muslims over any other religious group. The radicals have used this situation to establish themselves among the formerly peaceful muslims where they can now hide, kill and preach hate to the next generation.

It is strange that humanists/atheists who would ( rightly ) view evangelical Christians with suspicion are so very tolerant of some strands in Islam,which clearly are still in The Middle Ages.
I do think though that MOST Muslims like MOST Christians do not pose any sort of danger.

They pose a danger if they are hiding the terrorists. There are three or four million of em here, if they can't root out the "handful" of wrong uns it's because they lack the will.

I blame the life of brian

I'm not sure that " the community " invariably keeps quiet saddo. Where do you think the security forces get their info from ? For rather obvious reasons Muslims who are helping expose the fanatics do not want their names blazed all over the media.

''every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us''

“part and parcel of living in a big city”

etc etc...

Plenty of people in power and/or positions of ''influence'' ...HATE Britain.

It cannot rumble on for decades SS. They need to choose to sort it out in a concerted manner, or we may possibly face racial civil war.

funny how sky news has more info on the guy than the gov

It also applies to some on here but also a remarkable number of the population. You are going to have to go a long way to change views.

Ultimately I agree saddo that the most likely way of putting a stop to this is if Muslims play the major part. That's not going to happen if we demonise them all. I suspect most of us are old enough to remember the IRA bombings. There was a slight tendency to condemn all Irish Catholics but that wasn't widespread. If it had been I imagine there would have been little chance of peace.

I am not demonising them ss, I am suggesting they get their shlt together and sort out their own mess before it goes too far.

many in the government and establishment are not British, or English.

Exactly, the same goes for many radio and television presenters. And journalist.

They set an example that the rest of the community are supposed to follow.

They're mainly suckers and apologists. And ultimately to blame for the control of people through PC, and the go-softly approach that encourages radicals and radicalism.

So instead of nipping it in the bud it is allowed to thrive.

I didn't specifically mean you saddo.

I know that ss. A major factor in this is positive discrimination. Like all forms of discrimination, it causes division.

why is there peace in N. Ireland ? It has nothing to do with the people in N. Ireland or any change in the views of people in N. Ireland , those remain exactly the same.
there is no difference in that country between before the troubles and now
Nothing has changed , nobody has changed, it has nothing to do with not demonising communities.

radical muslim is individuals , impossible to have talks

You see before the troubles the people in n Ireland were part of the most lucky and free and prosperous and democratic countries that had ever existed in the worlds history, anywhere and at any time.

Sorry lfc but you are making no sense. Clearly things HAVE changed in N Ireland,or are you much younger than I thought ?     

I was so shocked at the thought my finger twitched.

the aims remain exactly the same, the IRA was defeated not by being nice to them, or anyone in N. Ireland, they stopped because they knew they had been defeated and many of its major people were in the verge of being arrested , and they had been infiltrated from within
Another factor that is forgotten that just before the peace the loyalist terrorists were on the way to becoming even more ruthless and bloodthirsty , even the IRA leadership was getting the collywobbles about this.

I think you missed my point. IF we had said ALL Irish RCs are evil there would have been no peace whatever the IRA leadership thought as they would just have been overthrown by younger radicalised RCs.

yes salmon I am old enough to remember :)

salmon I don't believe there is anyone in this beautiful country, not one person who thinks that way

There were a few but my whole point is most didn't. The fanatics are of course out to radicalise as many Muslims as possible. If we treat them all as hate figures they will succeed.

Why do the government and establishment pander to radical Islam?

Stop right there and think about that?

Didn't Western leader know what they were importing? I'm sure they did?
Examine the cheering on of America to start Middle Eastern wars, thus creating millions of refugees, migrants and then the willingness of the EU to accept these people so readily in any numbers.   

Is this part of somebody's plan to destroy the West? Is there an enemy within to ensure that it works?

Because if there is, it's working out perfectly.

its not the government or the military we have to fear, its the people

Its your choice what you fear. You can either fear the hundreds of thousands who just arrived to your continent or you can fear the handful that invited them or hapily allowed them in.

well if the government tries to help people and they don't know how to behave and say thankyou I blame the people themselves
I`m like that.

ok

thankyou

detraveller and Dr C are correct.

Islam is the weapon of choice at present. The goal? Smash Christendom and especially white Christendom. In my view it's demonic. The liberals are mere puppets.

For thousands of years either the Jews of the Chistians have faced extinction. The Islamification of Europe will achieve the latter if not both.

The hypocricy of the Left's support of Islam is explained by 'the enemy (Islam) of my enemy (Christendom) is my friend'.

there`s your answer, its demonic.

is that merkel or Trump, or Obama, or May, I don`t know

As I say they're mere puppets in a larger game.

here we go

enlighten us injera, who`s pulling the strings

enlighten us injera, who`s pulling the strings

it will be the weapon manufactures, or the illuminati , or the jewish conspiracy, ...

All sorts of fantasies, look we don`t need to see anything out of the ordinary.

I don`t know what is happening, neither it seems do you. There is little point in making
things up.

lfc I've tried to understand poby's question for years. Why do Govts seek suicide which Islam inevitably brings?

Are they thick? Impossible for Merkel to be as stupid as to allow a million, mostly male Muslims into Germany. So what's behind it?

I'll go into Jewish mode and answer with questions.

Why did Pharoah want all Jewish babies killed at the time of Moses? Why did Herod do the same when Jesus came? Why the genocide of Christians by the Russians, the Chinese, and more latterly the Islamic world and North Korea?

It's not man made, it's way beyond that. It's too incredible for Europe to be THIS suicidal.

The Judeao - Christian heritage has shaped the world for good (largely) and it faces extinction. It's always faced extinction. There's nothing new in this.

sorry to butt in
but I know where most of the trouble is coming from
a bit like looking at a large ants nest
most is hidden
but a few come out and bite you if you hang around

sorry that is regards the UK.

re europe AND  the uk  - a friend of mine doesn't mince his words

Ref politicians and the civil service too    -    he says they are all idiots!!!

I`ll give that some thought injera

I haven't been able to answer any of those questions off the top of my head :)

Can't say I have pal!

The Romans tried, multiple dictators tried, the Catholics of course tried many times (and have since undergone huge reform) the Nazis tried, Communism tried and now it's Islam's turn.

Protestant Christendom and the Jews are still here thank God.

May 24, 2017 -- 1:47PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Why do the government and establishment pander to radical Islam?Stop right there and think about that?Didn't Western leader know what they were importing? I'm sure they did?Examine the cheering on of America to start Middle Eastern wars, thus creating millions of refugees, migrants and then the willingness of the EU to accept these people so readily in any numbers.   Is this part of somebody's plan to destroy the West? Is there an enemy within to ensure that it works? Because if there is, it's working out perfectly.

It's different though isn't it? An influx of refugees was allowed for either a) humanitarian reasons or b) as a workforce.

There was a large influx of migrants post war - Irish, black, Indian. They all had to abide by the laws of the land.

There does now seem to be policy of "appeasement" with radical Muslims or is that just my perception from what we are fed by the media and it's not the case at all? Is it just apathy and I'm reading more into it that there is.

I cannot understand why this is or would be the case.

It can't be to "smash" Christendom as someone has suggested above. England is hardly a hotbed of Christianity, you don't need to smash what isn't there. people in the country.

Poby    24 May 17 17:09 
There was a large influx of migrants post war - Irish, black, Indian. They all had to abide by the laws of the land.




Correct, the Muslims however, have been allowed much leeway by the law and successive governments. This allowed Rochdale, Oldham, Rotherham and all the other rape outrages to carry on unchallenged, despite police and officials knowing it was happening.

Poby - Christendopm and with it the tolerance of other faiths and none is under threat.

So too the justice/legal system, education, of course family law and womens' rights.

Many institutions we take for granted here have their roots in the Jewish/Christian heritage.

I don't advise it, but spend a few weeks in Pakistan to see the difference!

Another homeless man, Chris Parker, was begging in the stadium foyer when he heard the explosion. He described in graphic detail cradling a young girl who had been separated from her parents and lost both her legs in the blast. - Daily Mail

FFs..

May 24, 2017 -- 5:17PM, saddo wrote:

Poby    24 May 17 17:09  There was a large influx of migrants post war - Irish, black, Indian. They all had to abide by the laws of the land.Correct, the Muslims however, have been allowed much leeway by the law and successive governments. This allowed Rochdale, Oldham, Rotherham and all the other rape outrages to carry on unchallenged, despite police and officials knowing it was happening.

But why? Why on earth would leeway be given to Muslims?

I ' ll give a little clue, the Irish Catholics, and Protestants were the same as us and believed in the same things and the same way of life basically .
That goes a long way.

We didn't have to give leeway to the Irish people or anything in the way of culture and religion or even politics ,
They were the same.

Why indeed, poby. Undeniable nonetheless, and probably unretrievable. Our kids will live with the consequences.

Burnham pounding the message home about extremists on both sides - some muslim (ooops hurriedly says they don't represent the muslim community) then on the other side(??) and we must sweep them aside.   Can anyone name me any of these right wing organisations in this country that equates to the muslim daesh?? You know. Like those who have blown 70 people to bits or support mowing down people in westminster and stab coppers?? 
Do help me out here please.

"We will not be beaten blah blah". Aye, we've got the army on the streets today, curfews next

?

No honesty Saddo. Our kids were brutalised. Decapitated. We lost.

And the response is friggin teddy bears, flowers and poems.

check out on line muslim forums for your enlightenment of the true faith!!

I don't understand this "carry on as normal while we as a government do nothing to protect you" crap, could someone explain b4 the sh1t really hits the fan

muslims reversing as fast as they can disassociating themselves from the bomber. Like he worshiped in a mosque and lived locally along with some other 16 terrorist types who have been arrested in the last few years.

It would be so funny if it wasn't so darn serious.

burnham is more worried about right wing extremists - still waiting to find out which lot he is on about and where they are.  I am not aware of any right wing groups killing kids lately.  I am sure mr burnham is not politically grandstanding for votes is he.

Another explanation: Smash the Islam grip on the Middle East once and for all by exposing the West to the worst elements of it at close quarters?
That would kindle enough hate to justify whatever they have in mind.

It doesn't take much thought to work out who could be behind that!
If that's a possibility then they've made a good start already with four countries smashed.

Teams of Them walking Round Manchester for Years

Maybe there is a God or Gods and their playing a big game of Risk or Warcraft

why did you hit me?
are you mad at me for something.
can i buy you an ice cream.
will you be my friend.
do you like my sister?

doesn't take long for 22 deaths to drop off the forum

yesterday the whole tv news media were trying to make excuses

the surreal reversing of cult members on speech making platforms was sickening

we now have burnham blabbin on sky right now 'we are falling in to the terrorist's trap'
'we all believe in people being equal'

but the cult he is defended doesn't believe in that!!

Muslims have their six lies that are tenets of Islam

• Taqiyya (Shia) or Muda'rat (Sunni):
tactical deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam.

• Kitman: deceit by omission.

• Tawriya: deceit by ambiguity.

• Taysir: deceit through facilitation
(not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia).

• Darura: deceit through necessity
(to engage in something "Haram" or forbidden).

• Muruna: the temporary suspension of Sharia in order that Muslim immigrants appear "moderate".

I think it is working don't you?

The prophet Muhammad is reported to have said these words about martyrdom:

    By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.
    — Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[5]

    The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the Earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah).
    — Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[6]

Ps I apologise for joining Moisok in getting to the root of the problem.

I must in future say that every attack is merely a criminal act and nothing whatsoever to do with the death cult, I mean Islam.

Aye, that Quran's got nowt to do with Islam.

The Hadiths are the bigger worry. Mohammed's exact words. All this promising footballer did was obey the boss.

injera.......you do know moses never existed.......its myth........just like thor and Apollo

Very interesting post moisok...I can't work out whether our so called leaders are deliberately ignoring the fundamental beliefs of Islam because they're scared to do anything about it or they're just plain ignorant about them.Either way the politicians are paving the  way for a reincarnated Adolf Hitler to deal with the problem.

Injera you are starting to learn the correct way to portray a criminal act. 
If you continue in this vein you will soon be able to stand for mayor.

Keep repeating 'it has nothing to do with islam'  'this man was not a muslim'

despite being thrown out of his mosque two months ago

I wonder what cult he belongs to if it is not islam?

It is plai cowardice. Once you acknowledge a problem then it is incumbent upon you to take some action on behalf of society to address the problem. Pre-empt that requirement by denying or downplaying the problem and you see our political establishment.

May 25, 2017 -- 5:51PM, posy wrote:

Very interesting post moisok...I can't work out whether our so called leaders are deliberately ignoring the fundamental beliefs of Islam because they're scared to do anything about it or they're just plain ignorant about them.Either way the politicians are paving the

treetop, spot on.

OH dear posy, you were doing unusually well, then you go and invoke Godwin's law.FFS.

Godwin's law,
A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument.

Would you as a PM be prepared to upset the 3 million votes.  Have you any idea what the response would be if you decided to go to the root of the problem.  Think of the international response from those who fund at least half of the mosques in this country?
You would have to start with 3000  plus any returning jihadis (some already here)
Then what about the thousands of sympathisers?
Need I go on?

Now we have I love MCR. Striking back agains islamic terrorism

whoops - mr burnham will not be pleased with the terminology

Time for another poem perhaps...

I'll have you know that I'm working on a poem, a hashtag AND a platitude that will destroy RAAAAAAAYCISM forever.

Oh noooo,  hashtags, platitudes AAAANNNNDDDD a poem, the WMDs of pacifists.

I'm off out to enjoy the evening, GL guys.

Douglas Murray has been trying to get people - especially the people in power, to understand what is going on for ages. We need more like him.

doesn't take long for 22 deaths to drop off the forum


Don't think so moisok, is it me or was original thread pulled. To many Farages and not enough Burnhams maybe

posy  • May 25, 2017 5:51 PM BST 


Very interesting post moisok...I can't work out whether our so called leaders are deliberately ignoring the fundamental beliefs of Islam because they're scared to do anything about it or they're just plain ignorant about them.Either way the politicians are paving the  way for a reincarnated Adolf Hitler to deal with the problem.

This isn't Godwin's law, it is exactly the kind of stuff that happened in the 30's and that is so frightening. Except unlike Godwin's law, this is the generating of mass hatred.
as such, it's completely out of order.

Study

I am sure you think about your posts and also sit back and ruminate.

I would only put to you that islam is extremely powerful and on the rise.

Not now and not in 30 years, but in time it is destined for hegemony in europe.

Will that occur here and will that be good.

Will it be done peacefully or?  I ask you to consider if this is good for your
great grandchildren?

It's the same as it's always been; foreign, insular and (imo) alien to my way of thinking.
But.
Fundamentalists of ALL religions and beliefs are nutters.

I'm not talking about the all pervading issue.

Peaceful answers to all questions are always better than any alternative, since you ask.
Mass genocidal ramblings and suggestions are not only NOT an answer, but are inciteful, wrong and in fact, often illegal.

Ignoring three valid questions is not an answer either tbf.

I think your first error is to describe them as nutters.

There is a clear and concise philosophy combined with action that dictates
the narrative and direction which they (islam) take.

To describe them as insane (any of them) stops one from examining
the rationale of any cult/religion and their ideas/motives.

After all would one decry - say Catholicism or Protestantism - do you see?

Your last sentence is extremely worrying.

^^
apologies  that was to studyform

I am wondering what the 'mass hatred' part of the statement is about. 

I wouldn't call it that.  I would call it a distaste of a majority towards western lifestyle
from islam and muslim cultural position.