"Searching for Madeleine"

[i]scandanavian_haven
They have lost a child, and there is zero hard evidence to suggest they had anything to do with it,

There is no hard evidence of an abduction either so surely nothing can be ruled out.

scandanavian_haven
    04 May 17 23:21   

That's just how your mind works  aka, if someone doesn't agree with you, they are a troll


So I made one comment  on here & you wrote this


"pumphol you're another person in a very long list who has used this as a platform to make yourself look like a perfect parent with that kind of post,"


So are you disagreeing with me or being a troll, I'm sure your remember hounding me a few years back for not knowing an easy quiz question from a TV show I was on,so are you a troll or a hypocrite or perhaps both ?

tv quiz wtf? feel free to find that thread but you wont because it doesn't exist.
does not surprise me that that to deal with being called a troll, you call the person basically saying the thing, a troll, ok, that answers the question.

An eejit first and foremost

Scamdinavian..tv quiz wtf?Laugh feel free to find that thread but you wont because it doesn't exist.

I think you'll find pumphol has been on a few tv quiz shows, 15 to 1, and sale of the century, where he was up against Kevin, from eggheads!!
That show is on youtube, I've seen it

missed point John, he said I hounded him for missing a question on a quiz, I've no idea who he is let alone know he was on quiz shows and then mocking him, completely making it up, he is more than welcome to find that post though. He is trolling the McCanns and then calls me a troll for pulling him up on it, lol.

Saying that the mccanns were guilty of neglect is hardly ground breaking stuff,loads of people have said the same thing,seems a bit harsh & selective to pull up pumphol for it.

not selective or personal, as akabula says I mention it to other people all the time for two reasons, 1) it's been said a million times over 10 years so why keep hammering home the point, probably because 2) it makes them feel better about their own parenting skills/makes them look a better parent and that's more likely the main reason as to why people keep going on about leaving them alone.

I've said on this thread that I believe the McCanns were not in any way involved with Madeleine's disappearance but I cannot defend their decision to leave the children unattended.

Gerry McCann said something along the lines of, "it wasn't dissimilar to leaving the children in the house whilst having a drink on the garden". Hmmm...


What is the forum's view on the allegation that Kate McCann's first words on discovering Maddie was missing were, "they've taken her".

My own, fwiw, is that if she did say that she was probably in shock. If I was in that situation, I would have probably been a gibbering, incoherent wreck (no change there, then )

There are 3 interviews on you tube with a Statement Analyst who I found very impressive.

He dissected the choice of words Kate and Gerry used without knowing as lot about the case.

His conclusion was they were incriminating themselves with how they described events.

One example is the 'they've taken her' comment. It makes little sense. Why use such words unless a) you know there are people in the area who kidnap kids (in which case why leave yours alone?) or b) you're making up a story.

The more obvious expression of shock would have been: 'Maddy's gone!'

In a state of panic, fear and hysterics...you're teling them what they should have said whilst sitting calmly at a computer thinking rationally?

makes no sense.

They were also surrended by legal teams and PR who no doubt helped to dictate they way they answered questions, in fear of losing custody of their twins or being imprisoned, which is what the portuguese police wanted, so much so they offered Kate McCann a deal, confess and you will get a lighter sentance,

To answer your question - yes.

Kate made an immediate assumption of what had happened to her daughter. Why?

Most kids of that age who go missing wander off. The reaction of a frightened parent is not to describe a crime, it's to express horror that the child is not where she was left.

again you're thinking very rationally and methodically, a nice luxery to have.

That's the nicest thing I've heard in ages.

it's to express horror that the child is not where she was left.

Especially if she knew the child was in errr a deep sleep...

I think the first reaction of people would have been to make a quick search of the immediate area.
Strange as well that in thinking Madeleine had been abducted that Kate left the other 2 children alone whilst she went back to tell Gerry and the other diners.

It was good to see who the Met have selected as their Barry George this time.  This one makes poor Barry look like a Bond villain.  If only he'd taken the cameras, sunglasses, passports and phones that were lying around the apartment then he might have been able to afford to get his teeth done

May 5, 2017 -- 4:28PM, Facts wrote:

' .........Gerry McCann said something along the lines of, "it wasn't dissimilar to leaving the children in the house whilst having a drink on the garden"........'Hadn't heard this before. But it's consistent with his attitude throughout. Smarmy, arrogant and unfeeling.Definitely ' something of the night ' about him .imo.

He's a doctor. I'd be more surprised if this wasn't how you found him.

Can't really be bothered to read this thread, obviously feel sorrow for the child but as for the parents, all I'll say is if this had been a single mum from a council estate she would of been vilified!

would you take advice from a doctor that takes his child to a foreign hotel and leaves the kid alone in a hotel room without a babysitter?

PEDO'S

PEDO'S

PEDO'S RUN THE WORLD

DEATH CULTS

SATANIC RITUALS

PEDO'S ARE THE BANKERS !

CHILDREN ARE THE CURRENCY

BUT THEY TOOK A UK CHILD

THERE ARE LAWS IN PEDO BANKING!

BUT THEY BREAK THEM ALL

despite watching 1000,s of news bulletins,reading loads in newspapers and on here it was only last week that i new that you actually had to leave the complex to get to the tapas bar onto a busy rd,99.9% not loike a having a drink in the garden
i,m amazed at scandia,s repeated comment about how did they have the time to get rid,hide,etc a body,SOMEONE DID,why not someone who had time to plan it,organise it,set their statements against a pre planned event,as opposed to say a random intruder who would have to think on his feet within seconds in the dark of night

Fair point.

er, obv someone did, but it wasn't the McCanns was it, they were at the resort, someone could have driven for miles and miles and miles, the McCanns are highly unlikely to have have planned a cover up of a child in a place they didn't know without ever being disturbed/found. If you think they arranged for someone else to do it at such short notice in such a state of panic, they it's borderline delusional.

it's unlikely, so unlikely that it seems insanely remote, but for the bazillionth time, so is an abduction. you can't compare the likelihood of one scenario in isolation here, we know that she's missing, and the relative likelihoods of different narratives is the important bit, not the individual likelihood.

I maintain that Kate's adamancy that she had been abducted, immediately after discovering that she was missing, is the biggest problem.

To be primed to assume that, having made the decisions they did, is incompatible with leaving them unattended. In particular, if she were the one feeling guilty about leaving them, she would be the one checking. The obvious assumption when a child goes missing is to assume they wandered off on their own.

so in the uk abduction,burring bodies,getting rid of weapons etc,people who,ve planned such crimes dont drives 100,s of miles to get rid of the evidence even if a crime is planned they panic and get rid in the locality,the theory of a random  driving 100,s of miles away to dispose of something isnt the norm,
your left with a planned abduction which was so well planned according to the tapas mob took place mins before a planned check on the kids,or maddy wandering out of the appartment straight into the hands of the local peado who within seconds decides to drive 100,s of miles away,for reasons known only to them from the second it happened to this day the mcaans ruled out the obvious theory of her walking out of the appartment of her own accord

I have never thought too much of the comment " they have taken her " when your in turmoil you can do or say the the strangest things.
The point being her mind was racing ten to the dozen she just blurted out the worst possible scenario.

say the strangest things,
all the attention went on to huntly and carr when she and others have talked about people in the past tense,sometning i,d say was far less incriminating than kates remark but the police jump all over it

in a state of panic, nothing is obvious.

Take a scenario. Which has already been suggested btw.
Two professional doctors decide to give Maddie a sleeping drug( she'd  awoken previous nights and complained ).
Something goes wrong and she dies.
As parents you are immediately faced with,

Prosecution
Prison
Loss of twins ( into Social Care)
Loss of careers 'etc,etc,etc.


What options are open to you ?

That has been suggested many times, fact, but again the question of where/how in such a short space of time could they have conceled a dead body without being traced for 10 years in a location they didn't know. And from a human point of view, could two parents think like this in such a scenario in such a short space of time...only one of them would have been convicted of wrong doing either way, and that one parent would not have been facing a murder charge, if you're child has just died, surely you are suffering too much grief to concuct such a meticulous, successful plan, you'd also have to be an extremly cold human being with little emotion.

Also it doesn't make sense because of what has happened in the years that followed, everything they have done is to draw attention to the case, if they were guilty you would surely think that is the last thing they would do, they would want the public attention to die down, you could argue that is apart of the plan, deception...but for 10 years? maybe for a couple.

That's where I am with this case, Facts.

The use of sleeping drugs is apparently qute common to quieten kids. K&G would have access to some decent stuff too..

As you say, if it did go horribly wrong, they were faced with an incredibly hard choice. They may have thought deflecting the blame would enable them to keep the twins which would be best for all concerned.

There is a suggestion Maddy was not seen for a few days (No photos released from the immediate past and perhaps not sighted either.) I wonder if she died earlier in the week.

huntlry,tia sharp killer,sharron mathews,philpott all put themselves front and centre of the investigations its a well known trait thats why police shove them in front of the tv camera,s

The 10 years is a bit of a red herring if as has been suggested Madeleine was cremated.
Not like you Scandi to try and muddy the waters.

murat,russian bloke,a dozen thieves ,hotel receptionist etc,etc all been suspected in the heat of the moment of doing what scandia wont let enter his thinking that 2 highly educated dr,s with time to work out a plan couldnt possibly do,i dont see any logic in that whatsever,huntley managed to get on tv,get his girlfriend on board and nip 20 miles away to hide 2 bodies in a ditch ,whilst in the teauma of murdering 2 kids ,why couldnt 2 dr,s with the help of the only witness,s tapas squad do the same

If she was cremated (care to explain where/how/who helped), why would they bother kepping  up the pretence for 10 years with interviews and campaigns? there would be no point.

Me stating the glaringly obvious such as why would they keep promoting this story if they were guilty, is not muddying waters, stating endless array of scenarios as to how she died, is more akin to muddying waters.

if you daughter was missing you,d bring more attention to yourself by not continuing to pretend to look for her surely,remember the grief they got for coming home after saying they,d never leave the algarve till she was found,for fooooooooks sakes its almost protocol,the done thing for murderers to join in the search,

someone might say that the fact no ones been convicted and if it wasnt an inside job why havnt there been anymore peado abductions,botched  break ins resulting in people been attacked in apartments etc in the last 10 year and the years previous

the done thing for parents is look for their child, does that need to be said ?

Was a story in the news recently about a woman being cremated that week.
I was always of the opinion that an abduction was the more likely but there is as little/much evidence to support this as any other theory.

Something for ye all to have a read of...


PHYSICAL / APARTMENT / ENTRY

1. All five markers in a sample found under the tiles, behind the sofa (exactly where Eddie, the EVRD [Cadaver] dog and Keela, the CSI [Human Blood] dog, both indicated), are 100% compatible with Madeleine's DNA profile

2. Fifteen of the markers, in a sample found under the luggage liner of the McCann's Scenic (hired 24 days later), are 100% compatible with Madeleine's DNA profile

3. Shutters were not jemmied or forced, as claimed by the parents

4. No signs of forced entry anywhere in the apartment

5. No physical evidence of anyone having entered or left via the window, including:

6. No Lichen disturbance

7. No Fibres

8. No Finger prints of abductor

9. No footprints on bed

10. Only finger prints on the window are those of Kate

DOGS

11. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the McCann's wardrobe in 5A

12. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted at the back of the sofa in 5A

13. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the veranda outside the parent?s bedroom

14. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the flower bed at the back of 5A

15. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a white sleeveless top belonging to Kate

16. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to checked trousers belonging to Kate

17. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a child?s red T shirt

18. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a toy belonging to Madeleine

19. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the key of the McCann's rental Scenic car

20. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the passenger's door of the McCann's Renault Scenic

21. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted at the back of the sofa in 5A (exact same spot as alerted to by the EVRD dog)

22. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted to the key of the McCann's hire car

23. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted to the interior of the hire vehicle's boot

TANNER SIGHTING

The only perceived evidence of abduction, being the sighting by Jane Tanner at around 21.15 is riddled with inconsistencies and conflicting testimonies, being the fact that

24. None of the scent tracking Search & Rescue dogs followed that trail, and in fact followed another trail completely

25. Jeremy Wilkins (independent witness) failed to spot the ?abductor?, despite being only yards away, while chatting to Gerry

26. Jeremy Wilkins (independent witness) failed to see Jane Tanner walking by, despite being on the same narrow sidewalk at the same time

27. Gerry himself failed to spot the abductor, despite being only yards away, while chatting to Jeremy

28. Gerry contradicted Jeremy by stating that their chat was on the opposite side of the road from that as described, and drawn on a map, by Mr Wilkins

29. Gerry also contradicted Tanner, by stating that his chat with Jeremy was on the opposite side of the road from that mentioned by Jane

30. Jane failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking to her apartment at 21.15

31. Jane failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine?s bedroom while walking from her apartment at 21.20

32. Jane never bumped into Jeremy Wilkins (who had walked back to his apartment after the chat with Gerry) while walking back from her apartment at 21.20

33. Russell O'Brien failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking to his apartment at 21.30

34. Matthew Oldfield failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking to his apartment, which was right next door, at 21.30

35. Matthew failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains while checking on Madeleine and the twins

36. Matthew failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking from his apartment back to the Tapas at around 21.35

37. Jane failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking to her apartment at 21.45

38. Russell failed to spot the open window and shutters and blowing curtains coming from Madeleine's bedroom while walking back from his apartment at 21.50

39. Tanner's description has changed several times

40. It makes no sense, especially if (as the McCann's claim) that this was a well planned abduction, that the abductor walks across the very road used by the parents to check on their children

41... The abductor failed to hear either Tanner, Gerry or Wilkins, and continued on the path that would put him in the full vision of all three

42... If the abductor had lifted Madeleine out of the bed, then he would be carrying with her head to his right hand side, not on the left as in Tanner's claimed sighting

SMITH SIGHTING

43. The Smith family (independent witnesses) sighting has, with the exception of one brief mention two years later, been completely ignored by the McCann's and their private detectives from day one (no e-fit / press conference / media onslaught) despite the fact that?

44. There was huge publicity given to the Tanner sighting, including the pressure put on the Portuguese authorities to get the details out there

45. The Smith family descriptions have never changed

46. The sighting was only minutes before the 'alarm' was raised

47. The sighting was only 250 metres from the apartment

48. This sighting would have explained many of the inconsistencies of the Tanner sighting as mentioned above

49. There were several members of the family who witnessed this man carrying a child

50. The general area and timing of the sighting made by the family can be corroborated by a restaurant receipt for that evening

51. The general description of the man could fit Gerry McCann

52. The description of the child matches Madeleine

53. The type of trousers match those possessed by Gerry

54. Trousers match in terms of colour

55. Trousers even match in terms of the visible buttons as mentioned by one of the family

56. Martin and his wife later identified the carrier, through the distinctive carrying style, as being Gerry McCann

Given much of the above, the remarkable coincidence that?

57. The pressure put on the PJ to highlight the Tanner sighting came at exactly the same time as the Smith family were being brought back to Portugal to go over the sighting in more detail

58. The sighting was in a different part of town from the Tanner sighting

59. It was also heading in a completely different direction

60. The carrying style was completely different to that of the Tanner sighting

61. And yet the McCann's deliberately altered the Smith sighting carrying style so as to match that of the Tanner sighting, during the only ever significant mention of the sighting, in a McCann made reconstruction aired only a few days after Amaral's (in which he included the Smith sighting)

62. They also tried to morph the carrier into the same man as seen by Tanner, despite significant differences in descriptions

BEHAVIOURAL

There are many instances of strange behaviour from the McCann's, not being consistent with parents of a child abducted by paedophiles, including (but not limited to)?

63. Kate complaining about the speed of a police vehicle while being take to look into a new lead at PJ HQ (sighting caught on CCTV)

64. Gerry laughing and joking and sucking lollipops while one of the most significant abduction leads came to a climax

65. Very little mention of the huge award available over the last three years

66. Despite raising millions through their fund, and spending thousands on media monitoring, they continue to charge for travel kits and for printing off posters designed to help find their daughter

67. Lack of physical searching during the first few days

68. Lack of physically handing out leaflets / putting up posters themselves

69. Hiring cowboy private detectives with no expertise or experience in finding children

70. Gerry smirking when asked by a Sky News presenter how he feels when someone comes forward who is certain that they have seen Madeleine

71. When up to 14 possible sightings of Madeleine emerged in Malta, resulting in a huge police operation including Interpol, the McCann's hot footed it to Germany for more TV plugs

72. When the most promising sighting of all was made in Belgium, a 110% certain sighting by a child therapist, considered so credible by authorities that they despatched a forensics team, the McCanns went looking in Huelva, Spain

73. Gerry's initial claim, as overheard by another holidaymaker, within minutes of the alarm being raised, that Madeleine had been taken by paedophiles. How did he know that?

74. Gerry caught on Camera laughing his head off only a few days after his daughter had been abducted by paedophiles as claimed by the parents

75. Despite refuting the claims of the dogs / Scenic findings, the McCann's continued to submit ridiculous reasoning for them, including Sea bass, sweat, dirty nappies, rubbish en-route to dump, rotten meat, and attending to 6 bodies before the holiday, amongst others

76. Kate refusing to answer 48 police questions

77. The McCann's and their holiday friends all refusing to attend a police reconstruction

78. Despite the Madeleine's disappearance looking like an inside job from the outset, the McCann's and their friends were happy enough returning their children to the MW creche just hours later, despite not knowing if any of the staff were involved

79. When Kate raised the alarm, she ran back to the table, leaving the twins in the apartment while not knowing whether the abductor(s) were still onsite

80. Kate shouting They've taken her!?, not distinguishing between Madeleine and her sister Amelie

STATEMENT INCONSISTENCIES

90. When describing Madeleine sleeping that night, Kate said she was under the covers where as Gerry mentioned that his daughter slept without the covers, as was normal

91. Matthew Oldfield initially claimed that Kate and the children were at the tennis courts when he arrived there at 18.30 where as the rest of the Tapas 9 claim otherwise

92. David Payne's 18.30 / 18.40 check on Kate (last person out with the parents to see Madeleine) : According to Kate the sliding door was closed, and that David didn't actually enter the apartment, remaining at the door. But according to David, the door was open and he definitely entered the apartment.

93. Matt Oldfield chivvying up the Payne's at 21.00 : Matt claims he passed them near the top of the road, but David claims to have passed him by the swimming pool, Fiona claims to have passed him outside 5A, and Dianne Webster initially claimed that Matthew wasn't even there.

94. Prior to the PJ arriving at 12:40/12:50 Russell O'Brien has written the timeline for them all, including, Jane tanner sees stranger walking carrying child. He does this while Gerry McCann sits at the same table. However, according to Jane Tanner it's three o' clock in the morning when she informs Gerry McCann for the first time

OTHER

95. Various other possible withheld evidence as hinted at, including intercepted phone calls / text messages

96. Independent witness statement (from McCann neighbour) regarding the luggage door of the McCann's hire vehicle being open morning, noon and night

97. Gerry's missing hold-all / tennis / kit bag which he was seen with the day Madeleine disappeared cannot be located by detectives

98. Gaspar (UK GPs) statements detailing concerns about the father and one of his friends on holiday with them

99. Yvonne Martin (Social Worker) statement regarding concerns about the same friend

100. This same friend calls the Metropolitan Police Crime Specialist Director (a number which is also used as the out of hours contact for the Met's Child Abuse Investigation Team) 24 hours after the alarm

Care to post a link to that story, aka ?

A few questions Kate refused to answer (there were 48 in total)..

6 Why did you say Madeleine had been abducted?

7 Assuming Madeleine was abducted, why did you leave the twins to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? The supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.

8 Why didn’t you ask the twins then what happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?

21 Who did you phone after the occurrence?

22 Did you call Sky News?

23 Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?

26 Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

30 What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?

31 Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?

Ms McCann answered just one question put to her by the police during the interrogation, when she invoked her right to remain silent in protest at being treated as a suspect. She later said that she refused to co-operate because she thought the police treating her as a suspect was distracting them from the work they should have been doing to find Maddie.


- that last sentence is quite incredible. And her protest at 'being treated as a suspect' is bizarre. An intelligent woman, a doctor, would know that the police would HAVE to start with the family as possible suspects.

There is a link to it Scandi although I read it in one of the dailies.
Don't know how credible the information is but it could be feasible.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14058-maddie-cremated

instead of throwing money at any agency begging to get invloved the police could still push the case further by getting more information,exposing vested interests from the likes of the,
mcaans
tapas squad
the priest
freud
rumoured peado connections of some of those involved.

according to bloke on tv the other night millions of pounds spent on not finding maddie but in moving the spotlight away from the parents,let down whilst she was here and been let down since she went missingher parents and friends will do anything ,spend millions of taxpayers money but wont answer questions and tell the whole story

forget the mcaans why arnt the police trying to force the tapas squad,priest ,murat etc,etc to take lie detector test,even the possibility of such tests could shake an apple from the tree

Surely the most reliable 'witnesses' are the specialist SNIFFER DOGS.

They never only find Talculm Powder when sniffing/searching for Heroin.... they find Heroin.

- and the authorities do not send for, and use, specialist SNIFFER DOGES when searching for bodies after an Earthquake, just for show.

that odius mcaan spokesmen clarence mitchell ex tory machine man,was telling people why the parents are innocent,why the dogs evidence was flawed etc,pr exercise for the parents on tv the other night,thats not his job its the polices job,wasnt that other tv celeb mark someone who has just done his own show their spokesmen in the early days,it all stinks to high heaven,wtf does  clarence mitchell no about evidence,smells found by dogs, i,d bet the dogs handlers didnt think all the dogs markers were bogus and explained away if so they shouldnt be spending millions to train and use them

Gerry publicly disagreed. Stated that such dogs were very unreliable.
When pressed ,his arrogant reply was ' you'd best ask the dogs'
And they wonder why people remain suspicious of the parents !

Very interesting about the church, the priest and keys.
And the theory of crem

* cremation and the missing tennis bag,that might explain the DNA traces in the hire car.?

where is the priest now rumours were the catholic church sent him to coventry ,was he paid off,after 10 years of rumours another new turn in the 2 tv docu,s last week was the seedy,poverty side of the resort which had never been mentioned before

Never any mention of the substantial reward -  if anything will make someone talk surely that would. Heard it said they don't want timewasters coming forward but surely anything is better than nothing -  which is what we seem to have at the moment.

last week was the seedy,poverty side of the resort which had never been mentioned before


The modern day Algarve has pretty much always been a crime ridden place. I'd have been shocked if this event happened in Spain, but not in Portugal. Lots of Brazilian immigrants and violet crime (muggings etc) in that area.

For example read through this 12 page thread..

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g189112-i331-k4526892-Muggings_in_Albufeira-Albufeira_Faro_District_Algarve.html

Not just low level pick-pocket shiit you'd get in Spain, some serious violent stuff. Put me off going there.

Heard it said they don't want timewasters coming forward but surely anything is better than nothing

Maybe they are cleverer than ye think.

They knew that plod were looking for anything or anyone, plus fecking thick, and they could have ended up in shít..

Has there ever been a credible explanation of - Why the Priest was replaced, and left Praie de Luz so suddenly?

Nope. Try finding out. Brick walls everywhere.

Papal interference is worse than the Mafioso..

Hamsterdam  -

"last week was the seedy,poverty side of the resort which had never been mentioned before"
----------------

That is an incorrect, a somewhat sweeping statement.

I have been to both Albufeira and Praia da Luz.

Albufeira is busy, and can be dodgy,  in the Strip and New Town part  - where there are more youngsters and both Brazillian and Eastern European 'opportunists' around.

Praia da Luz - is sleepy by comparison - mostly retirees and families - No disco type bars, and the like - very little nightlife, actually.

'I was deceived' says the Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann
Last updated at 10:03 18 October 2007

The Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann in the days after Madeleine vanished last night said he had been deceived, it has emerged.
According to reports, Father Jose Manuel Pacheco claimed he had done nothing wrong and was simply "supporting two lost souls."

But, bizarrely, he also appeared to say he had been the victim of some form of deception.

It has also emerged Father Pacheco was apparently called in to see his superior, Algarve Bishop Manuel Quintas and warned about his behaviour.
In the days after Madeleine vanished on May 3, the McCanns, both 39 and devout Catholics, frequently sought refuge at the priest's church.
They became so close to Father Pacheco, he gave them the keys to the tiny building so they could go in to pray whenever they liked.

However, his friendship with the couple appeared to spectacularly backfire after police became convinced Kate had told him she had killed her daughter during confession.
But he has vowed to take whatever she had said to the grave, despite being quizzed by detectives.
Father Pacheco appeared to virtually vanish from the public eye in the weeks after Gerry and Kate were made arguidos - or official suspects.

The pair left Portugal without saying goodbye and handed the church keys to another clergyman.

Last week, police moved in to search the churchyard and there has been some suggestion that they may consider digging for Madeleine's body at the location.
Father Pacheco, runs two churches and teaches at three local schools, yesterday broke his silence.

According to the Daily Express, he admitted he had become too close to the couple, still official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter.
"I was deceived," he said.

"I was just doing my job supporting lost souls. I would do that with any family who were in their situation. I didn't do anything wrong.
Father Pacheco, 46, said he had felt compelled to help Kate and Gerry because of their "inconsolable grief".

Now mopping floors and wiping arses in the Vatican..

He knows...

Albufeira is busy, and can be dodgy,  in the Strip and New Town part  - where there are more youngsters and both Brazillian and Eastern European 'opportunists' around.

Praia da Luz - is sleepy by comparison - mostly retirees and families - No disco type bars, and the like - very little nightlife, actually.

So sleepy it had a high density of burglaries in just the one apartment block?? Clearly there had been a criminal infiltration in the PDL area at the time. Whilst there's a big difference between burglary > kidnapping a child its quite obvious this is what happened...kidnapped in a panic and probably dumped at sea

Quite obvious ?
On what evidence ?

It's running around in circles that does it..

Whilst there's a big difference between burglary > kidnapping a child its quite obvious this is what happened...kidnapped in a panic and probably dumped at sea




Yep , burglars can't find any laptops , phones etc , 'lets's grab this 3 year old kid , run through the streets with her and chuck her in the sea'

Who said there were laptops and phones in the apartment? their phones were likely on them and would they bring their laptop on holiday?

I've mention this before, but there was/(is?) a well known p3ado ring in portugal that involved celebrities/high ranking officials (look it up), including those of the judiciary, a cover up involving those on the case desperate to pin the blame on the Mccann's, could also be possible.

Do what Gerry says ' ask the dogs '. They know.

Who said there were laptops and phones in the apartment?

erm , no one did , but isn't that what burglars hope to find   And when they don't they usually just fk off to make their getaway , usually not slowed down by carrying small children

A ferrari engine makes a deep, distinctive sound.
When the children at Portugal's most famous orphanage heard the sports car roaring down the driveway, fear swept through the dormitories.
The noise could mean only one thing: the man known as The Doctor was coming to call.
Yet this medical practitioner had no intention of adhering to the ancient Hippocratic Oath.
Madeleine McCann in hat

Instead, arriving at Casa Pia (House of the Pious), a 17th century Lisbon orphanage where more than 4,000 children are cared for each year behind high stone walls, the doctor would summon selected boys and girls from their beds for examinations one night each week.

Where possible, he chose deaf-mutes.

After checking that the children were not suffering from any sexual infections, the doctor was joined by the orphanage caretaker, known as Bibi, who ushered the unfortunate children outside to a waiting van.

With the doctor following in his red Ferrari, Bibi drove the van to the prestigious homes of some of the leading members of Lisbon society - ranging from Portuguese government ministers and high-ranking diplomats, to famous television stars and members of the judiciary.
Scroll down for more...
McCann family

There, the children were repeatedly sexually abused. Some were allegedly drugged to make them compliant; others were plied with alcohol.

This continued for years. Assaults were filmed; pictures of one attack were subsequently found at the home of a suspected paedophile in Paris.
According to medical records, the victims' injuries were horrific - and consistent with serious sexual assault and rape. In witness statements, many were able to describe in minute detail the homes where they were taken and identifying marks on the bodies of their abusers.

The existence of this so-called "magic circle" of the Portuguese establishment, allegedly involved in an international paedophile ring using boys and girls from Casa Pia, was last week likened to an earthquake waiting to shake Portugal to its foundations.
New allegations about the scale of the network will be put before the country's highest court within the next few weeks.

Amid rumours of links to other paedophile gangs across Europe and the U.S., international experts on child sex crimes and murders are expected to be in court when the case re-opens, four years after a group of victims broke a silence lasting more than 30 years.
But what relevance does this have to the disappearance 170 days ago of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, about 280km from Lisbon?

And what does it mean for Kate and Gerry McCann, who have not only had to cope with losing their child, but have also been subjects of a vicious campaign in the Portuguese press to smear them?

It is crucial for two reasons; first because it proves what international crime agencies have long suspected: that Portugal has become a magnet for predatory paedophiles from around the world, using the country's lax laws and preying on the high numbers of poor, abandoned children.

And second, because Paulo Rebelo, an urbane, methodical detective who led the Casa Pia paedophile inquiry, was last night finishing his first week as the new chief of the investigation into the disappearance of the British child.

Rebelo has replaced Goncalo Amaral, the "oafish" local police chief out of his depth in a case that has captured unprecedented world attention, with millions fascinated by the story of the girl snatched from her bed on holiday while her parents ate with friends 200 yards away.
The sight of the sweaty, corpulent Amaral in restaurants and cafes near the Portimao police headquarters had become commonplace since Madeleine disappeared.

While the McCanns were warned repeatedly they faced jail for speaking about the case, he was been overheard, during his daily three-hour lunches of wine and shellfish, accusing the couple of killing their daughter.

In one conversation with Portugal's ex-Formula One racing driver Pedro Lamy, Amaral revealed he was convinced the McCanns drugged their daughter and accidentally killed her. "The police case is we are sure the parents killed Madeleine. They are both doctors and know about drugs.
"We are confident in our case," he said.

In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.

According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.
At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".
In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts.

Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.

In a Lisbon café, an associate of Rebelo told the Mail: "The Casa Pia case had a deep affect on Paulo. You come across things that are appalling and cruel. But you get a feeling that there are some seriously bad people in the world, and some of them are here. He does not rule anything out."
So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.
But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.

The latest?

That bodily fluids from Madeleine's corpse were found in the boot of the couple's hire care and that "background checks" were to be carried out on Gerry McCann's laptop. And then the police "sources" claimed that Kate killed Madeleine without telling Gerry, and that the body was "refrigerated" before being dumped up to 25 days later.

His career in tatters and now back on desk duties in Faro, Amaral faces a criminal hearing in the case of another missing child, Joana Cipriano, after being accused of concealing evidence that the girl's mother was tortured into confessing to her murder.

Amaral and his colleagues face countless unanswered questions about mistakes in the original police investigation into Maddie's disappearance, such as failing to ensure the McCanns' apartment was sealed off for forensics. (This did not happen until the next day, by which time the McCanns, their friends, resort staff and detectives had traipsed through, destroying potentially vital evidence.)
They also failed to seal off the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort. No roadblocks were set up and police on the Spanish border - two hours' drive away - were not alerted for 12 hours. Staff were only quizzed 60 hours later. And the CCTV footage from a busy main road was never studied. The list of mistakes goes on.
While the shift in the investigation may ease the intolerable pressure on the McCanns, it will do little to console them.
As well as growing fears that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile ring, they can have little hope of justice when leading Portuguese figures are allegedly involved in covering-up their own child sex scandal.
Both cases - the two highestprofile criminal investigations in the country since the end of the Portuguese military dictatorship in 1974 - have been riven by allegations of compromised police officers, high-level interference and vicious, virulent attacks on key witnesses.
Pedro Namora, a former Casa Pia orphan who witnessed 11 rapes on fellow orphans, during which they were tied to their beds, sympathises with the McCanns. He believes elements in the force have conspired to suppress both scandals, fearing damage to the country's reputation.

"Portugal is a paedophiles' paradise," said Mr Namora, now a lawyer campaigning on behalf of the Casa Pia victims. "If all the names come out, this will be an earthquake in Portugal. There is a massive, sophisticated network at play here - stretching from the government to the judiciary and the police...
"The network is enormous and extremely powerful. There are magistrates, ambassadors, police, politicians - all have procured children from Casa Pia. It is extremely difficult to break this down. These people cover for each other, because if one is arrested, they all are arrested. They don't want anyone to know."

Now 44, Mr Namora watched as friends sank into alcoholism, drug addiction and death after their
traumatic childhood experiences at Casa Pia. "I was the only one who made it," he said. "What could I do? I couldn't keep silent."
He has received death threats and warnings about what will happen to his own children, after taking up the case when an orphan called "Joel" approached him, saying prominent paedophiles were using Casa Pia as a "supermarket for children".
Mr Namora has been threatened after fighting on behalf of the abused children he grew up with.
After being telephoned by a stranger offering to pay off his mortgage, he was told the exact movements of his own three children, and warned that they and their father would come to a grisly end unless he shut up.

An open, warm man, Mr Namora makes an unlikely conspiracytheorist-But he believes the case, which he brought to light in 2003, will underscore Portugal's growing attraction for paedophiles, which has seen six children disappear in recent years...
One reason for this attraction is that the law was quietly relaxed last year, ahead of the forthcoming trial, meaning that repeat offences against the same child would merit only a single charge - and a lesser sentence.

In echoes of the McCanns' ordeal, the initial investigation was badly handled when allegations of abuse were first made at Casa Pia in 1982. Carlos Silvino, the man known as Bibi, was linked to rapes and assaults, but police "lost" pictures showing prominent Lisbon politicians with him and the children.

He was only charged after dozens of children came forward in 2003. They also accused Jorge Ritto, a former Portuguese ambassador, of child abuse. Ritto, it transpired, had also once been sent home in disgrace from a posting in Germany after an incident involving a young boy in a park.
The conspiracy did not end there. Teresa Costa Macedo, a former secretary of state for the family, has revealed that she knew about the attacks in the early Eighties - and that she had alerted General Antonio Ramalho Eanes, the then Portuguese president, about the allegations.
Mrs Costa Macedo, who remained silent for two decades after being warned she would be killed if she spoke, now says that the caretaker "was just one element in a huge paedophile network that involved important people in our country. It wasn't just him [the caretaker]. He was a procurer of children for well-known people who range from diplomats and politicians to people linked to the media".
While still a government minister, Costa Macedo handed police "photographs, an account of the methods used to spirit children out of the orphanage and testimonies of a number of children". Many of the photographs were found at ex-ambassador Jorge Ritto's house. Police reportedly found four children locked up who had been missing from Casa Pia.
Under armed guard at a safe house last week, Bibi could count himself a lucky man. He originally faced allegations that he had sexually assaulted more than 600 children. That has since been reduced to 30. Silvino has hinted at the high-level of the conspiracy, saying: "They can't touch me - there are too many people involved."
Following Ritto's arrest, the police questioned Carloz Cruz, known as Portugal's "Mr Television", and Joao Diniz, a high- society doctor and driver of the red Ferrari. The network allegedly went further. Paulo Pedroso, a government minister, was arrested and quizzed about 15 cases of child sexual abuse.
Amid allegations that paedophile networks have become endemic in Portugal - the European police force Interpol has named the country as one of the worst offenders in Europe - there are fears that the Casa Pia scandal will come to eclipse Belgium's notorious Marc Dutroux case, in which the arrest of a notorious paedophile and child murderer revealed a sordid picture of judicial and political corruption.
Of course, the Casa Pia case may have no direct link to the disappearance of Madeleine, but the culture in which such a serious child abuse network was allowed to operate is the same culture that pervades the whole of Portugal. Was it this attitude that led to the bungled initial investigation in the McCann case?
Perhaps the appointment of the man who exposed the Casa Pia scandal will give the parents of Maddie hope that a proper investigation will now discover the truth

^ When was that article published? - skanda - and where?

Daily Mail

20th October 2007

Yep , burglars can't find any laptops , phones etc , 'lets's grab this 3 year old kid , run through the streets with her and chuck her in the sea'

She started crying, they panicked? This is what the UK investigators believed happened too btw! maybe not as exciting to some internet weirdos/conspiracy theory types who believe the parents did it....classless nutjobs.

I'm struggling to read that Scandi.
My eyesight very poor.
I may have missed some points but if all these children were available why risk taking a stranger?

several children "disappeared", you could ask why were they taken? how many do they need? how many people are they 'catering' for, maybe they want more children, maybe that wanted a blonde child, who knows I've no idea how their minds work.

The point is clear, a huge problem at the time (and probably now) of sexual abuse/p3ado gangs is apparent, it's a possiblity, one of many.

Looks like an attempt to smear a country.
Lots of accusations about the police but without any proof.

May 7, 2017 -- 5:15PM, scandanavian_haven wrote:

several children "disappeared", you could ask why were they taken? how many do they need? how many people are they 'catering' for, maybe they want more children, maybe that wanted a blonde child, who knows I've no idea how their minds work.The point is clear, a huge problem at the time (and probably now) of sexual abuse/p3ado gangs is apparent, it's a possiblity, one of many.

you got a link to missing children concerning the Casa Pia child abuse inquiry Scandinavian Haven ?

is there papers relating to the official inquiry that states children disappeared ?

or is it just more planted false flag stories from media crisis management  companies ?

But what relevance does this have to the disappearance 170 days ago of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, about 280km from Lisbon?

Well obviously fk all

They have access to orphans , homeless runaway kids etc who no one is looking out for and can do what they like with them as they are the people supposedly caring for them.

She started crying, they panicked? This is what the UK investigators believed happened too btw!

Seriously think about this.

wtf are burglars going to panic because a 3 year old child wakes up while they are robbing the place ?

Either they just tell here they are tooth fairies or whatever and carry on , or they just think oh ffs and walk out .

The purpose of the Met investigation is simply to generate endless abductor theories so that the public are always reading about this or that 'key suspect' and constantly have in mind someone other than the parents

The were told at the outset they could not consider any theory other than abduction and so have to dream up some shyte

It's been obvious from day 1 after that tory mp went over there,friends in high places eh!

Hamsterdam needs to keep off his wheel for a few days..

I would think he finds such an idea,impossible

and constantly have in mind someone other than the parents

Haha so the parents done it? Its amazing how many people actually believe this. So what happened then, why did they kill their own child and hide it?

Got to love the girlfriend free conspiracy theorists

I go with logic.

The 'logic' of burglars panicking because a 3 year old sees them , and worrying that the child is going to get on the witness stand and give evidence against them - because 3 years olds do this regulary - and that they are then gonna get convicted of burglary and get probation ,when they can solve all this by picking her up , kidknapping her , dragging her screaming through the streets etc  Or maybe , to make sure , they murder her right there , and to make even more sure , carry her corpse away....

Alternatively they could have just ignored the child or walked out but i guess you think thats illogical.

maybe the burglars got maddie to clean the place of any evidence of intruders before they whisked her away as well, imo its down to 2 possibles
the parents are involved
or
she,s wandered out of the apartment to meet what ever fated awaited her

Half a dozen burglaries in that apartment block alone in such a short space of time is a LOT for a sleepy town...put two and two together its quite the obvious I would say they were involved. Run away if the kid screams her head off? Really? That won't look obvious?! Grab the kid around the mouth to shut her up...oh shiit the DNA (panic) oh shiit better take her with me and dump her somewhere (panic) DNA (panic) ... the rest I won't detail...

Now lets the the logic as to why the parents done it (and got away with it) and see how it holds up??

answer any one of the 100 or so strange choices,answers of the macaans listed above,then ask yourself whys theres absolutely zilch evidence of a break in

Whhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

of the millions of breakins world wide every year and the so called 1000,s on holiday rooms in the algarve at the current time how many ended up with a child been abducted, murdered,think the answer maybe between zero and one,and he,s a clue its not one

the logic as to why the parents done it

The motive obviously would be if she had died in a way that would lead to serious charges against them or whoever else was involved , and so could not allow an autopsy

Anybody know when Madeleine was last by an independent witness, not parents nor tapas mob?

Between 5 & 6pm roughly