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They're all useless. Think about this.....
They're all useless. Think about this.....
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Replies: 159
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knee operations are a huge scam. a ninety year old goes to his GP with a sore knee - gets referred on. The surgeon says "oh yes I can do that!" - the old guy has his surgery then finds he's no better off because he's too old to recover and rehabilitate properly. However the surgeons's bank balance looks very healthy
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Well well here we go, the NHS is losing 2 billion a year to health tourism and study is worried about the cost of coffee in his vending machine.. you see this is the kind of nonsense we have to face.
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This is the 4th time you've written some silliness aimed at me lfc.
If only you actually understood ANY of what I wrote,... Shall I spell it out for you? Try reading it again. OK. Not the cost of my coffee, the fact that the PROFIT made on COFFEE in an NHS HOSPITAL SHOULD GO TO THE NHS and not to COSTA!!!!!!! The vending machines sell a 50p chocolate bar or bag of crisps for £1 and that is a RIP-OFF, the profit made then goes to the vending machine company that has the space renting deal with the relevant NHS trust. Therefore the only winner is the vending machine operator, who need not exist in an NHS establishment. |
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Yes and if you looked carefully I didn't disagree with any of that.
However I suggest that you might have thought that something should be done about other countries and people from all corners of the world stealing billions of pounds , and the time involved , from our health service.' Then w might consider what to do and where to buy our coffee |
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https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/
Try reading this instead of the Mail. |
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I read the government report , and yes the figures are most likely greater than in that report.
Now I know you don't want to believe it, and that is why I suggested that maybe the government is not to blame for the mess this country is facing, but people like yourself...di you think that might be possible ? |
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Also I didn't give the complete list of EVERYTHING to do with the NHS, just - as I said - some ideas to fix it that, imo, politicians wouldn't like.
No I don't. I don't make the rules and laws, the government do. If you think the government isn't responsible for anything that's wrong in this country, you are beyond naïve and they must be ineffective for not making it right. |
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Did you watch the programme by the BBC just recently, documentary on the health service.
Which almost as an aside showed hundreds of thousands of pounds being lost to people coming to Britain to use the NHS..this was in the space of a few programmes. and by the BBC! |
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I am not sure if they paid for their coffee
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If you want to quote what I say, could you do me the courtesy of not taking just a snippet out of context?
I didn't see it, no, but 0.3% (largest estimate) of NHS cost wouldn't be much of an overall saving would it? It might well be an addition to my list of NHS fixes though, eh? |
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"I wonder..... Do the MPs and Politicians responsible for the NHS, REALLY use it, or do we pay for their private healthcare?
I honestly don't know the answer to this". Neither do I SF, I do know we could fill pages on this subject about the tangled mess that is the NHS, it's too valuable a campaigning tool for politicians to override party positions and actually work for some sort of cohesively agreed structured long term planning..............I can always dream. |
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It is billions of pounds, and the time and care used, and the doctors and nurses and technical staff and the hospital beds and everything that it takes to provide and train these medics and the cost of building the hospitals and maintaining the emergency services. The entire infrastructure has to be built and maintained and paid for .
But don't worry its only a few billion pounds here and there. |
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Apparently it ISN'T billions of pounds.... Once again, you didn't read it, did you?
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SF...."If you want to quote what I say, could you do me the courtesy of not taking just a snippet out of context?"
I have to confess that I also have been guilty of that lately, for which I apologize, no excuses I was just tired and cranky and utterly failed to put my views across in the proper manner, Sorry. I am actually knackered now so won't stay om much longer. The fact that you are talking to me shows that you are not one to bear a grudge if the respondent is putting a point fairly and without puerile name calling whether in agreement with you or not, fair play to you.  |
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It's already built, btw and the (probably unneccesary) rebuilding is very costly. They've already bought (and closed down most of) the beds.
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*No allowing Doctors and Dentists to train at OUR expense then quitting to do private work, any who do should pay it all back.
And many others which I'm sure we could think of. Last but not least |
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Not at all, boxingthefox.
We are, for once singing off the same hymn sheet on this. Not hard imo, all it's about is common sense. |
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I can assure you study the government report best estimate, is 2 billion a year, now that is likely that i he greater because the NHS staff, doctors and nurses and managers and politicians gave a vested interest in not letting the British people know the true extent if the scam of what is going on
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Now the evidence is there, they didn't even try to cover it up in that BBC documentary .
In a few weeks of programmes hundreds of thousands of pounds were lost to health tourism That us just a small example if the vast problem ..you are determined that it is something that can be dismissed as propaganda. Very well nothing can change with that mindset |
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I don't know where you get the last part of your statement there lfc, NHS staff etc have NO vested interest in understating it.
The estimate includes expats coming home for treatment from abroad, holidaymakers who have an accident, and more. It also doesn't include money charged for treatment subsequent to that treatment. I haven't dismissed or denied there's a cost. Just not included it in a list. If you think stopping "health tourism" would cure the NHS.... You're wrong. |
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https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-savings-wont-plug-hole-nhs-funding/
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The NHS staff are running a business , their jobs and wages depend on that business, the greater the numbers the greater the staff numbers, the greater the staff numbered the greater chance of promotion , the greater chance of keeping your job etc ,that is how it works.
That is their interest from managers to doctors to nurses to technical and clerical staff right through the entire system You will not get the truth from then as to what is happening |
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No. It isn't a business, has never been a business, and shouldn't be a business, but is being turned into one by successive governments - the point of this entire thread!
Businesses depend on profit. Public services, (Police, NHS, Education, government) are NOT business. |
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I don't think you understand what is happening in the NHS. The doctors and managers and staff on all levels are complicate in running a business , they don't care where the money comes from , and they are happy to work for the NHS or privately or as us more often the case both.
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I mentioned that in my list too.
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lfc1971, It is propaganda, in the sense that it is designed to polarise our opinions, for example if we stopped giving 'Foreign aid to just 2 countries, Pakistan, and india, we would have had 559 million to spend on the NHS, Why did pick those 2 countries, well, just for starters, they're in the 'nuclear club', but It's not that simple.
Our total spend of £12.1 billion is roughly four or five times one estimate for the shortfall in social care funding; but from another perspective, it’s a bit less per household than one estimate for the food we throw away. it gets very complicated, who you help and why. And should Supermarkets promote BOGOF offers that we neither need nor want and just waste. I'm not trying to be funny but the excesses, and wastefulness of our society is as feckless as our (politically media driven) aim to deflect the blame to others. Not long ago the target was benefit scroungers, who accounted (IF memory serves me well) for 1 1/2% of the total benefit spend. They were of course breaking the law, but the media would have us believe 'It's all their fault and More recently the Pensioner (Living too long) burden, not the government, as to why the country is in trouble and therefor we had austerity. Nothing to do with the giant 'Ponzi scheme' run by the banking institutions!! Just a few examples. I'm offski GL guys. |
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VG boxing.
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Bill Gates on my TV this morning telling us we should continue with our current 'Overseas aid contributions/giveaways. Really!, Pakistan is a Nuclear power, they sold the technology to Iran, then NK ffs. they play whatever political hand suits them on an hourly/daily basis.
To say they are a 'Slippery customer' is to do an injustice to the cliche. |
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How many Billions has it cost Pakistan and India to build and maintain this capability, aside from the untold millions the Kashmir conflict has cost and continues to cost. All this while we send aid to feed their starving people. We are told sent a combined £559 million to them last year, is that the real figure, is there a more deserving case, We have 'food banks' in this country for people who have 'fallen through the net', am I missing something here????
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Sorry I digressed, but it's all money out of taxpayers contributions.
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Austerity is the biggest illusion that the media created. If you look at Government spending over the last few years you will find it has never existed.
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The 'bailed out banks continue to play with the monopoly money without giving even a nod to helping small business.
Continue to put your 'wet signature on loan/mortgage applications, and the BoE will create 'new money' on which you will pay interest for the rest of your natural. |
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Good thread.
Procurement within the public sector is a huge problem. As is the awarding of contracts to massive companies like Mitie who fleece us rotten. As for housing, successive govts LOVE to build. It keeps the job market going, not just for those in construction but maintenance and improvements thereafter. They have welcomed mass immigration to increase demand on housing so they can build more. Demand always exceeds supply and so the house market exploded. 1 bed flats for £200k here in Sussex.. It's a disaster. Corbyn can go on about lower rents but HE wants unlimited immigration! Immigrants have higher birth rates and we are all living longer. It's madness! Rents can NEVER tumble unless Govt buys up vast amounts of houses and rents them back to us at half price. i.e. proper socialism. Would it work? I've no idea.. |
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The obscenity of Food Banks in today's Britain.
 The 'march' of economic inequality in the UK is remorseless............."We are all in this together" said the Eaton boy while the other Eaton boys grinned slyly. while texting their brokers. |
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Same here in Rural(ish) Essex...injera,
I moved south after a few years in the north, then the midlands... Rent for a 3 bed semi, £1100 or more a month, (was 1/2 that in west mids), and is double that in London. It's become ridiculous. The average wage includes the mega earners. I'm not sure what the average wage would be if you took out the top 1% and then did an average. I'm guessing about £20K a year maybe £25K? That means Rent, council tax, utilities = more than salary. So, such luxuries as food and clothes, or even a car! become impossible. My accountant mate always says that the sign of everything picking up, or improving economy, is lots of building going on. It always looks promising then there's a lull again. Various reasons including; red tape, objections to every planning application, banks not lending (as usual) to property developers, awkward councils. As you say, it isn't just the building, it's the knock-on business, the new infrastructure to support the new houses.... just a moving economy. |
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Interesting. Just mentioned on TV.
More people rent from private landlords than from councils and housing associations combined!!!! Could this be an issue? I think so. |
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National debt doubled under Cameron. I think it's now £1.5 trillion.
Austerity? No way. We live way beyond our means. Study - yes, it's scary. How will the next generation cope? Thousands in debt after being sold the university lie, then faced with mortgages 5-6 times their salary.... Very tempted to move north, perhaps Yorkshire. 3-4 bed houses for 200k!! That's our plan...the so called north south divide is in the north's favour but that's politically incorrect to say that... My own take on it is that people will rent more and come retirement the brown stuff will hit the fan. At present many homeowners are funding their care but in future (with fewer homeowners) I don't see that happening and the state will be burdened beyond belief... |
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