Chit Chat
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There seems to be an obsession with immigration, as if it's the cause of all our problems.
Not only will brexit only deal with immigration from the EU, it most likely won't.
Immigration is something of a problem there is no doubt, but is neither the root cause nor the biggest current cause of apparent misery.
Maybe if we considered the REAL reasons everything is worse than it used to or should be:
Police stations closing in most small towns, education in turmoil, only 140,000 hospital beds in the UK as opposed to 350,000 in 1980, AUSTERITY, selling everything to big corporations, the biggest divide between Rich and Poor EVER, no help from banks and so much more......
These things are not because of immigration, they are because of bad government.
I'm not saying there's an easy solution, nor even a party who would fix it. What is for sure though is the career politicians we've had for the last 40 years care not a jot for US, the people they're supposed to work for.
What is also for sure, all the "doing the right thing", "making tough choices", "all in it together", applies to US and NEVER to the politicians who say it.
The Press get to make a nice living from politics, politicians make a nice living/pension/other income from politics, they will do and say anything to keep it that way.
They have their own rules (expenses for everything, smoking allowed in THEIR (subsidised) bars, large pay rises - (the only ones in the public sector) and they nearly all lie and get caught out doing so, lies which would get you and me fired from any other job.
Now we're supposed to hold them in some sort of high esteem while they make even more from us. Not the immigrants, the politicians and those who live off them.
OK - onslaught replies below please........
Not only will brexit only deal with immigration from the EU, it most likely won't.
Immigration is something of a problem there is no doubt, but is neither the root cause nor the biggest current cause of apparent misery.
Maybe if we considered the REAL reasons everything is worse than it used to or should be:
Police stations closing in most small towns, education in turmoil, only 140,000 hospital beds in the UK as opposed to 350,000 in 1980, AUSTERITY, selling everything to big corporations, the biggest divide between Rich and Poor EVER, no help from banks and so much more......
These things are not because of immigration, they are because of bad government.
I'm not saying there's an easy solution, nor even a party who would fix it. What is for sure though is the career politicians we've had for the last 40 years care not a jot for US, the people they're supposed to work for.
What is also for sure, all the "doing the right thing", "making tough choices", "all in it together", applies to US and NEVER to the politicians who say it.
The Press get to make a nice living from politics, politicians make a nice living/pension/other income from politics, they will do and say anything to keep it that way.
They have their own rules (expenses for everything, smoking allowed in THEIR (subsidised) bars, large pay rises - (the only ones in the public sector) and they nearly all lie and get caught out doing so, lies which would get you and me fired from any other job.
Now we're supposed to hold them in some sort of high esteem while they make even more from us. Not the immigrants, the politicians and those who live off them.
OK - onslaught replies below please........
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You can dress this up however much you want but it all comes back to opening the floodgates and losing control of our borders.
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It would be interesting to see what the political reporters are earning, compared to the MPs.
I hold the post-war Labour govt. in extreme high regard and it seems that many of them worked themselves into ill-health, as they really did have a "vision" for the people ; now that's just a buzzword. Maybe the problems began when politicians learned to manipulate people through techniques and rhetoric that are ready-made for TV. |
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everything is a manipulation. they massage figures.
people don't want the truth, if they go to the doctors they want some treatment when they should be given a free health pass to exercise and a diet sheet. But even that is beyond the government's powers to help it's own population. They are in league with pharma companies and they don't want to tread on their pal's toes. It's always the vested interests that win over the people. |
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I think you're right, vel.
Wasn't it in 1956 that Adlai Stevenson ruined his chances in the US election following looking REALLY bad on TV? The 1st time TV was really used I think. I'm certainly in the right area even if the details are sketchy. Another difference now, is that MP's salaries are spending money, EVERYTHING else is expenses and 2nd jobs and legal bungs. They're trained (the top politicians) in; how to speak (Thatcher), move their hands (Blair), what to wear (not Foot), what to say (Cameron) and even how to smile (Brown). The days of doing what they truly believe in for the good of their constituents and population are long gone. Either that or they have it knocked out of them by senior MPs and civil servants. Or get hard to win seats. Political journalists seem to have an agenda. Maybe it's in order to keep their jobs, as all the newspaper owners seem to have huge political allegiancies. Or maybe it's with a view to future jobs as MPs. zorro, I make you right too, the pharma companies hold the NHS to ransom. Even when they've recouped initial research outlay, the need massive profit is more important than saving lives or helping sick people. The NHS is very badly bugggered now, bits sold off, big building contracts, massive IT costs, layout on everything but health care. Not enough doctors, most hospitals closed and centralised - which has given rise to most current problems. Akabula, I'm dressing nothing up, but you aren't happy unless you either argue or have a pop at me. Our borders were under the direct control of Theresa May from 2010 and cover-ups were commonplace, yet she is now the one doing the hard brexit, almost certainly to say "the right thing" to those who want to hear it. |
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Study - Michael Foot at the cenotaph is the moment I remember, when he wore a pea coat but it was called a donkey jacket and a big fuss was made...and the Saatchi bullsh1t...
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Study, all the points you make are of course correct, greedy bosses have used cheap labour to drive wages down, the last 40 years seem to have been one giant 'Screwfest' with us being the ones being screwed. I despair for future. Career Politicians, are of course self serving, parasites. Pharma companies, ditto, Media driven agendas, nauseating.
The disastrous evidence of Short‐termist governance in the UK touches us all. I have already stated on another thread that I won't be discussing the up coming fiasco, I can't see any solutions anytime soon. As I said earlier GL guys whoever you vote for. |
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THE RISE AND RISE OF MICHAEL RIMMER from 1970 , starring Peter Cook...just about predicting Tony Blair...
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 ..Remember it well Vel. |
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A different referendum every week with Michael Rimmer...
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Not wishing to take the thread off track, But you guys might like this masterpiece from the Peter Cook skit based on the Jeremy Thorpe case/trial, The biased Judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U |
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I am appalled at the lack of respect shown for the representatives of the people!!!
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Yass, you've got to be right, Foxy - yesterday's satire has become reality. Well worth seeing the entire film.
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'a player of the pink oboe'
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Yes moisok, quite brilliant.
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you may mock
francis says mock ye not do not titter Dear beautiful Jeremy blazed a trail for equality against the appalling bias shown towards gender, sexism, racism and xylophone issues. We can now FEEL free!! Without fear of the plod!! Nudge nudge!! |
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@SF I aint arguing with anyything you are saying but merely pointing out that no matter what you think we did wrong historically immigration is a major problem and the cause of much of our current problems.
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In the 90s anyone could get a house/ even a small flat when they wanted for not a lot of money
Now try leaving School at 16-18 working and i wonder how long it would take to save up if you had your own place.The priority list is a joke also people can skip past people on the council list whp have been on it 10 year if they just go on Anti-Depressants. Why you think so many people get the things i guarantee they don't all take them I wouldn't want to be here at the end of this Century that's for sure.There is plenty room up the top of Scotland to build on but too far for the tourists. |
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To rent * from council even plenty little places but they blew up tower blocks and build cul-de-sacs it doesn't add up
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I don't dispute it's a problem, akabula.
But it's thrown about as a deflective tool by the media and some politicians. Even a 10% increase in population doesn't cause the problems that a 60% reduction of Hospital beds cause (for example). All I'm suggesting is that it isn't as large a problem it has been made out to be There are immigrants from all over the world, in the 50's and 60's they were apparently wanted. Then less so when immigration became (as it does all over the world) a political tool. Emmigration seems to be OK though. I don't know the answer to this, but if all people were repatriated, how many expats would come back to the UK? I wonder, are there many less than the number of immigrants? If it's close then the number of people here aren't the issue. TheChaser, House prices are out of control because banks won't lend to 1st time buyers, also house ownership is more of a business than ever before. Councils were stopped from building new housing stock when much was sold off in 'Right to Buy'. Tower blocks have been demolished (rightly imo, having grown up in one) and not been replaced. They now cost about 25 year's wages. In the early 60's, a house would cost about 1 year's wage. Here's an idea.... No-one needs to own more than 2 houses, councils could build and own the spare and there would be enough to rent out before long, at affordable rates. The ONLY losers - buy to let landlords. |
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I remember the 60s and the influx of Sikhs to Scotland.
Never an issue and a group of people who whilst retaining their own identity embraced our culture. In fact we've never had an issue with immigration until recent times. Why? Too many in too short space of time, it's that simple. |
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But to let landlords, are without doubt a major cause of the cancerous housing bubble disease, while driving up rents at the same time.
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100%
Every town has a corner shop and rarely violence not in Scotland anyway They used to be the only places that would tick people alcohol and swap milk tokens for beers not anymore though.They would beat yi wi a bat if yi asked for a case on tick. |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5vTzP2bA2E
michael rimmer - immigration furore Police line up at the end! |
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boxingthefox 18 Apr 17 22:26 Joined: 05 May 05 | Topic/replies: 12,754 | Blogger: boxingthefox's blog But to let landlords, are without doubt a major cause of the cancerous housing bubble disease, while driving up rents at the same time. Yep they bought up say flats run down for pennies do them up with cheap designer sh1te and rent at high rates |
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"Too many in too short space of time, it's that simple." indeed aka, it spikes every chance of true integration, causes ghetto's and leaves the weaker ones open to all sorts of gangmaster depravity.
Managed, immigration (if possible?) would benefit everyone. Imo. |
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Tower blocks have been demolished (rightly imo, having grown up in one) and not been replaced.
Fair enough cancel the tower blocks but i meant they wont even build 4-5 high in areas and they can be made nicely It's all just up and downs with 2 rooms the council ones anyway from what ive seen in cul-de-sacs.Safer they say as no roads etc but im sure they could build more like you say councils could build and own the spare and there would be enough to rent out before long, at affordable rates. The ONLY losers - buy to let landlords. |
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It's now housing associations, chaser. Councils don't own very much any more. A big shame.
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No one is going home just now more for now would be nice
See that wage £7.60 it would soon jump and people on that wage cold maybe make a living The population grew by 4.3 million from 2006-2016 1996 to 2006 could be more as that's when mass immigration started |
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80-90s 56-57 million in uk
90-2000 57-59 million in uk 2016 65.3 million no problem  |
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no more for now*
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http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/population
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Isn't the whole world's population growing all the time?
The minimum wage jump is seriously not wanted by the big (rich) companies, the CBI and Institute of Directors always plead poverty every time the thought of paying staff enough to live on comes up. Though I completely agree, give people money and they'll spend it and the economy would benefit the most. As it is now, the money keeps going to those who already have loads (often members of the CBI and Institute of Directors) and who won't spend it. I also agree - no more for now, but this is being sorted, isn't it? |
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4.3 million in 10 year when the uk was only 50 million or so is some increase
People used to tell me the Polish where all proper grafters i worked with many and they liked a skive but just hid it more.For instance a local lad would go out for a smoke and just say be back in a bit but the Polish no joke where found sleeping in the cupboards.Heavy worked this guy was meant to be. |
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They want under 25s the big companies as the minimum wage is lower for 24 year olds than 25
So are you nw an adult at 25 |
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Love the way some people try to blame our current situation on a government trying to balance the books, rather than the feckless before.
You can try words like immigration, austerity, nhs & government. Unless you accept that globalisation drives everything then you are missing the point. Countries set a tax rate as their population and the average wage, they set education & health budgets on that math. When, for last 10/20 years their have been little tax income from the influx, not adding to the tax income then the math is going to fall short. UK tax was set up to encourage workers and not for the people who are happy to live 10 to house with no social life and all going to work in the same car and not indulging into british weekend activities. I salute people that think austerity has driven this. Its all about globalisation, globalisation is all about companies making the most out of every movement of labour, cheap labour is the end of your country and the world. Big companies can make money out of well paid labour, its win win, but they want to abuse their advantage so that are not fit for any countries future imo. |
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That 1990-2000 is 2 million i bet most was from 1997 onwards
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Divide and rule is very pretty much the strategy, "Immigrants, benefit scroungers Vs Hard working families,...Young vs old, ...the list goes on and on,.but we're all in this together"
 . Polarise groups and then manipulate them.Think I'll stop now, just depressing the hell out of myself. Good thread though. Good point about Globalisation IS. |
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IS,
Globalisation (together with privatisation - where the borders often meet) is the cause of nearly all the other problems mentioned. Not kerbing it leads to austerity measures. Therefore globalisation drives austerity, not the reverse. I blame our problems not on "a government trying to balance its books" but on a succession of governments over 40 years who have looked after themselves and their friends and families before the people they're supposed to work for..... US. Incidentally, I think income tax is only about of 30% of tax collected by government. |