self employed chancellor

The 2015 Conservative manifesto promised to "not raise...National Insurance contributions"

They claim that they have abolished class 2 nics, but in reality the whole package is designed to exclude low pay self employed from the state pension.

Its nothing of the sort.

self employed paying for the grammar skools

dochinite what don't you agree with?

fact class 2 NIs are being abolished

fact class 2 NIs allowed low earning SE to build up entitlement to the state pension.

When Osborne said Class 2s were being abolished he said he was helping the self employed, but the class 4 increases are easily compensating for the loss of revenue from the abolished class 2s.  However, low paid self employed under the class 4 threshold will now not be credited for the state pension, whereas they previous were via class 2s.

is that right 5 grand didvidends free of tax .dropping to 2 grand,osbournes policy only been in for 1 year,whats the chucking point

millions of people are classed as self employed not to try and scam a few quid of the taxman but because companies wont take the risk of hiring people on their books ,so use agencies and the agencies class people as self employed,limited company,umberella etc,etc
no hols,no sick pay,no pension,minimumm wage,etc,etc,blah,blah

i could be chancellor sky tv,beeb finally waking up to what a huge tax rise for the government cutting the dividend tax is,spreadsheet thinking he,s hitting big boss,s but hitting people who use dividends to boost their income like myself,cost me about 600 a year in the blink of an eye

if your self employed using dividends to just about manage,mizz may has held you down whilst spreadsheet phil has wellied you in the rollocks,unbelievable,neither of these cuts were mentioned by comrade corbyn obviously,

Love the idea of people using dividends  to just about manage.  It just shows how some will criticize whatever he does.

The dividend tax change will in the vast majority of cases affect wealthy investors or well paid directors.

Dave-  Looking at the limit before you pay class 4 NICs virtually anybody who works anywhere near full time will be way above it. The idea they abolished Class 2 nics to save on state pensions in decades to come is unlikely to say the least.

well i,m unenmployed living on savings and its costing me 600 quid a year,and i could have sold shares or wrapped them in an isa over the last 2 years to pay less tax,but didnt bother because osbourne introduced the 5 grand tax free,whats the point in introducing policy if there just gimmicks to be removed at a whim,exactly the reason why people dont trust pensions because they keep moving the goalposts

as for loving the idea of just about managing using dividends theres millions of pensioners on low income who use dividends,interest on savings etc to get by,you,ve obviously got as much idea as spreadsheet phil

@dotchinite Whether they intended it or not, they have had precisely that effect on, yes, part time self employed.  The increasing cost of the new state pension is the primary reason why they are increasing SE NI.  You would have to be very naive not to think that reducing costs by cutting credits at the lower paid end wouldn't be costed in the projections.

Cant you ISA them before the change next April? You have two years allowances you can use over the next few weeks?

dave. Does it make any difference in practice?  If any of these part timers who earn so little retire they will get other benefits wont they?

you still pay 10% on dividends in an isa and its hard to get information on how or if you can get payed the dividends yearly out of the isa,at the moment the company who,s shares i have just pay it and sort the tax out ,which for the last 18 months has been zilch,which is the point you can chase your arse like on energy bills etc to save some oney but they,ll change the goalposts in the next budget and you,ll have to chase your arse again,and obviously the big boss,s spreadsheet thinks he,s hitting have the fancy accountants to circumnavigate any changes

lots of people work part time etc because they dont want to go cap in hand begging for benefits ,theres millions and millions of unclaimed benefits by pensioners because they dont want to lay bare their circumstances to some snotty nose kid behind a desk

1st time low income people usually dont get several thousand pounds in dividends per year.

plenty do to stop been low income,ask you mammy who sid was,or bt,or standard life,etc,etc

Dont be pathetic 1st time. Try acting your age.

add to that the millions of employees on share save schemes at their companies

Virtually none of which will have 50 grands worth.

allowance of £250 a month,3 grand a year at 20% discount what makes you think people wont have built up 50 grands worth of holdings,people,pension providers hold ,buy shares on the strength of the dividend increase,so no point in companies bragging about a 10% increase in dividends if your getting a 20% tax increase

Looks a non story to me. Personal tax allowance keeps going up for example.

I'm SE and happy to pay more NI for the NHS and whatever pension I may get down the line.

Certainly not gonna cry over it.

Ive worked in companies with SAYE schemes and even well paid managers put in surprisingly small amounts.

Anyway if they have they dont need a tax break from the state. The better off need to pay their share thats what I keep hearing on here.

Mar 8, 2017 -- 9:53AM, Dotchinite wrote:

dave. Does it make any difference in practice?

if you listened,i,m unemployed living on savings getting a 600 quid tax hammer in the rollocks,in what way dont i need a tax break, and i,m certain theres illions in the same boat,when the tax break was given the torys didnt wrap it up as a tax break for the rich but a tax break for the share owning population maggie thatcher had helped create

dotchinite

The point of the new state pension was to stop people needing benefits.  Higher earners got less from the system and lower earners and SE got more.  It seems to be a retrograde step to start carving out people.

Theres certainly not millions in the same boat. Look at the average savings in this country and you will find the percentage who have anywhere near that is tiny especially as shares will usually be on top of some cash holdings.

dave I dont disagree with that at all. My point was purely in financial terms that these people will get a certain level and whether its pension or some sort of benefit it costs the state the same.

my point is the government will bring something in ,in one budget and people will say ok i,ll have a dabble at that use my savings for this or that and within a year the same government pulls the rug from under your feet,and in the same breath they expect to people to buy into pensions over a 50 year time span and look puzzled when people say nah thanks

NS&S bond paying 2.2% on 3 grand tied up for 3 years ,theres current accounts out there that pay 3 to 5%  on balances of 3 grand

Indeed 1st time i totally agree with you. Any change should last a Parliament at least. The continual change in pension
law is ridiculous and its no surprise people wont contribute.

Im just under 50. Whats my chances of being allowed a tax free 25% lump sum when i retire?

annuties are out of vogue at the moment, because  the rates are that low,why dont some providers offer enhanced rates for people willing to give up the chance of a 25% lump sum,if the lump sum benefit goes it will be a double whammy with those with decent sized pots who wait till retirement before accessing their pension,together with a state pension taking 7 grand a year will mean you paying tax

annuities are poor because the provider wants to make a profit

the 25% is just 25% of the pot on which they have already creamed of a % each
year

why do the torys bang on about fairness regards self employed etc ,but see no unfairness in  the likes of green,beckham,barlow etc paying 5% tax at most ,whilst their cleaners ,au pairs ,gardeners pay 20%,
says the change in ni will bring in 5 million wonder what he,d bring in if everyone payed 20% tax

Thatcher Spiv culture comes unstuck , when will people learn that this mob always return to divide and conquer every time.

Thing I've noticed these days is that the financial risk of running a business in a lot of cases has now been passed down to the "self employed" bloke at the bottom of the chain.  A business goes bust and its the "self employed" bloke at the bottom of the pile who is last,if at all, to be paid.

another false tory promise to name and shame big companies who dont pay or are late payers to small companies

Why is there one section of society given more State help than the rest even though that section earns more?
I refer to the tax relief on pension contributions. I was told by my MP that there was no consensus for change e.g. giving everyone the same level of relief. This was confirmed by a Treasury spokesman who said that their study had shown no consensus.

Yet the organizations that were consulted are all higher rate taxpayers. Turkeys voting for Xmas springs to mind.

the lack of knowledge of reporters ,interviewers on their brief does my nuts on,spokespeople from the treasury,obr etc filling the airways dressing this self employed nic rise as equalising the system,saying there now entitled to the new flat rate pension but they simply arnt its a lie,
you need to have 35 years of full nic at 12.6% to qualify for the new flat rate pension,self employed have been paying 9,will pay 10 next year and then 11,so they will never pay the amount needed to get the full flat rate,so will always get less than those on paye ,hence why they pay less in ,rant over,if andrew neil wants to give me a ring before the daily politics i,ll brief him,

Time to get rid of them but it won't happen.  Keep voting for the 74 grand expenses fuelled careerists.  I see Ozzie is doing well on his 650,000 job.  They do so well for us don't they.
Can't wait for the same old same old PLP get back control of the Labour party. 
What a wonderful thought!!!

Would you rather a Govt run by Mad Mac?

Mar 8, 2017 -- 7:16AM, xmoneyx wrote:

The 2015 Conservative manifesto promised to "not raise...National Insurance contributions"

1st time poster • March 9, 2017 10:01 AM GMT
you need to have 35 years of full nic at 12.6% to qualify for the new flat rate pension,self employed have been paying 9,will pay 10 next year and then 11,so they will never pay the amount needed to get the full flat rate,so will always get less than those on paye ,hence why they pay less in ,rant over,if andrew neil wants to give me a ring before the daily politics i,ll brief him,

This is all wrong.  Someone self employed retiring this year with even 35 years Class 2, far less Class 4 will get the full new rate.  They don't have to have 35 years from 2016/17.