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Gibbon offers an explanation for the fall of the Roman Empire, a task made difficult by a lack of comprehensive written sources, though he was not the only historian to attempt the task.[9]
According to Gibbon, the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions in large part due to the gradual loss of civic virtue among its citizens.[10] They had become weak, outsourcing their duty to defend their empire to barbarian mercenaries, who then became so numerous and ingrained that they were able to take over the Empire.
Answers on a post card to any of the elitists who read the Guardian and think it upholds the rights of the common populace in the free world and speaks the truth
According to Gibbon, the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions in large part due to the gradual loss of civic virtue among its citizens.[10] They had become weak, outsourcing their duty to defend their empire to barbarian mercenaries, who then became so numerous and ingrained that they were able to take over the Empire.
Answers on a post card to any of the elitists who read the Guardian and think it upholds the rights of the common populace in the free world and speaks the truth
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they relied upon their people (especially the elite) to be the strong arm of their army
look there for starters
look there for starters
Like all empires they spread themselves too thin, the latest example being the EU. The bigger they get, the harder they are to control.
trying to take back parts of russia in their imperialst campaign was a step too far
has this ever happened before
to Hitler or to Napoleon ho ho ho
and they tell me studying history is a waste of time
has this ever happened before
to Hitler or to Napoleon ho ho ho
and they tell me studying history is a waste of time
But if you so much as mention this trend you are castigated as "Far Right".
There is no debate. You are not given a platform to state any reasonable case because you are straight into the pigeon hole of swastika worshipping skinheads out for a ruck. The selected "Question Time" audience will have its Pantomime boos.
Whatever happened in the past we need to consider the here and now as that is the only bit of the earth's history that we are going to experience and be responsible for.
Western ideology of freedom and equal rights is as good as it gets, so far, since time began, and we all have ideas how to tweak it better.
However, we are now allowing those very rights that have been fought for and settled upon over millennia to be wiped out via the self same rights given to those who do not understand or appreciate them.
There is no debate. You are not given a platform to state any reasonable case because you are straight into the pigeon hole of swastika worshipping skinheads out for a ruck. The selected "Question Time" audience will have its Pantomime boos.
Whatever happened in the past we need to consider the here and now as that is the only bit of the earth's history that we are going to experience and be responsible for.
Western ideology of freedom and equal rights is as good as it gets, so far, since time began, and we all have ideas how to tweak it better.
However, we are now allowing those very rights that have been fought for and settled upon over millennia to be wiped out via the self same rights given to those who do not understand or appreciate them.
Is this a global society?
Time for a One World Government?
Time for a One World Government?
We do not need a World Government....who is it going to be the US of A, they see themselves as a Roman Empire
We need different countries, but they must stick to their borders and respect one another
Just my own opinion.
We need different countries, but they must stick to their borders and respect one another
Just my own opinion.
The Roman Empire became too big, too difficult to administer just from Rome.
Other cities grew to rival Rome, notably Constantinople, it split apart naturally.
Other cities grew to rival Rome, notably Constantinople, it split apart naturally.
The people who made Rome great, the common legionnaire, never got much out of it.
Because they were a slave owning society it made it difficult for the poor to find work, since the rich had slaves.
Successive emperors of Rome had to offer it's citizen's Bread and Games to keep them happy.
Good program on Rome on BBC4 this year, lady historian, I have forgotten her name
Because they were a slave owning society it made it difficult for the poor to find work, since the rich had slaves.
Successive emperors of Rome had to offer it's citizen's Bread and Games to keep them happy.
Good program on Rome on BBC4 this year, lady historian, I have forgotten her name
Population is at breaking point or close too it for sustainable needs, time to start culling or something like Logan's Run?
All right in you still under 30!I believe we need to control our populations, only China has tried this, it gives an aging society.
But if we live longer, we must expect to work longer.
In this country if people are past 50 and lose their job they find in nearly impossible to get another.
Yet we want people to live to a 100
.
I think we need to think about this.
Yet we want people to live to a 100
.I think we need to think about this.
I think you are digressing - you need to concentrate on the threat to our culture and, even, continuing existence.
If people kept to their own countries, then they can have their own culture.
Open borders are stupid, but we must not invade other countries either, that does not help!
Open borders are stupid, but we must not invade other countries either, that does not help!
Nothing Mobo, but this thread is supposed to be about the Roman Empire
It is you who digressed when you started speaking about the current threat to our culture?????
Happy Christmas.
It is you who digressed when you started speaking about the current threat to our culture?????
Happy Christmas.
still happening... the senate, the eagle banners. house of eagles.
roman empire fell due to shift in power from emperor to church
the church what took over is still dominant all these years later by jove
the church what took over is still dominant all these years later by jove
I was just going to make the point donny has. The OP is partly right about Gibbon but he was a proper historian who knew there were several contibuting factors including the adoption of Christianity by Constantine.
Modern historians would point to increased pressure on the Germanic tribes ( never really conquered by Rome ) by movements of people from the Asiartic steppes westwards. A recurring theme for many centuries. The Franks were originally Germanic,as were the Vandals and later the Visigoths who conquered Spain. Then of course there were those newcomers to the British Isles,the Angles and Saxons.
Modern historians would point to increased pressure on the Germanic tribes ( never really conquered by Rome ) by movements of people from the Asiartic steppes westwards. A recurring theme for many centuries. The Franks were originally Germanic,as were the Vandals and later the Visigoths who conquered Spain. Then of course there were those newcomers to the British Isles,the Angles and Saxons.
Who in all honesty would vote for a government
that enjoys stripping it's people to the bone?
I bet you answered that before you read it.
Yep next
that enjoys stripping it's people to the bone?
I bet you answered that before you read it.
Yep next
Be fair, all Empires disintegrate eventually, the Romans had a bloody good run for their money.
i think the British empire took over from the Roman empire, the pink maps. then the east india company, the new jesuits of the empire, was shutdown by the british government - they all jumped ship into the Banking industry. The bankers are now the new empire.
I suspect all Empires fall in time, they do not last forever.
The EU seems to be going that way, although it should never have been an Empire in the first place
.
The EU seems to be going that way, although it should never have been an Empire in the first place
.
It is interesting to study both the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, how and why it happened.
We can learn from the past, even from the Inca Empire of South America.
I suspect we keep making the same mistakes, over and over again.
Our Science my change but we ourselves do not.
Handing power over to Women as we seem to want to do in the West, is a new one, but I consider it a mistake.
Time will show if I am right or wrong.
We can learn from the past, even from the Inca Empire of South America.
I suspect we keep making the same mistakes, over and over again.
Our Science my change but we ourselves do not.
Handing power over to Women as we seem to want to do in the West, is a new one, but I consider it a mistake.
Time will show if I am right or wrong.
Do you believe in God ?
The Romans idolised false Gods and bares witness to persecution of others because of their faith ( Christianity & Judaism ).
God destroyed The Roman Empire. But historians will have other ideas.
The Romans idolised false Gods and bares witness to persecution of others because of their faith ( Christianity & Judaism ).
God destroyed The Roman Empire. But historians will have other ideas.
The Gibbmeister mentioned three signs of the empire's decadence and imminent collapse : Official promotion of homosexuality, and VAST, outlandish rewards for popular sportsmen (gladiators) and celebrity cooks...does any of this ring a bell?
homosexuality was illegal as the british empire declined
sportsmen were amateurs or on wage caps
celeb chefs , hmmm not many about then
sportsmen were amateurs or on wage caps
celeb chefs , hmmm not many about then
Vel, I would like to add to the list
transporting Chinese women halfway across the world to apply fake nails/nail varnish to British womens' nails.
transporting Chinese women halfway across the world to apply fake nails/nail varnish to British womens' nails.
Diff-rent • December 27, 2016 7:50 AM GMT
Do you believe in God ?
The Romans idolised false Gods and bares witness to persecution of others because of their faith ( Christianity & Judaism ).
God destroyed The Roman Empire. But historians will have other ideas.
The Roman Empire converted to CHRISTIANITY under Emperor Constantine???????????
One could say that was the start of the decline, Constantinople was created(renamed from Byzantium).
This became the capital of an Eastern Roman Empire, where most of the wealth went.
The Romans lost their commitment to Rome. Although Rome eventually reinvented itself as the head of the Christian(Catholic)
Church.
Do you believe in God ?
The Romans idolised false Gods and bares witness to persecution of others because of their faith ( Christianity & Judaism ).
God destroyed The Roman Empire. But historians will have other ideas.
The Roman Empire converted to CHRISTIANITY under Emperor Constantine???????????
One could say that was the start of the decline, Constantinople was created(renamed from Byzantium).
This became the capital of an Eastern Roman Empire, where most of the wealth went.
The Romans lost their commitment to Rome. Although Rome eventually reinvented itself as the head of the Christian(Catholic)
Church.
Tribes such as The Visigoths and Vandals needed land, a home.
The Western Roman Empire was just too inviting.
The Western Roman Empire was just too inviting.
but my friends are on their way back to take over europe
just wait and see
just wait and see
ebulGery 24 Dec 16 15:43
Handing power over to Women as we seem to want to do in the West, is a new one, but I consider it a mistake.
Time will show if I am right or wrong.
Here's a quote from The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb.
An increase in the influence of women in public life has often been associated with national decline. The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome.
In the tenth century, a similar tendency was observable in the Arab Empire, the women demanding admission to the professions hitherto monopolised by men. 'What,' wrote the contemporary historian, Ibn Bessam, 'have the professions of clerk, tax-collector or preacher to do with women? These occupations have always been limited to men alone.'
Many women practised law, while others obtained posts as university professors. There was an agitation for the appointment of female judges, which, however, does not appear to have succeeded.
Soon after this period, government and public order collapsed, and foreign invaders overran the country. The resulting increase in confusion and violence made it unsafe for women to move unescorted in the streets, with the result that this feminist movement collapsed.
Handing power over to Women as we seem to want to do in the West, is a new one, but I consider it a mistake.
Time will show if I am right or wrong.
Here's a quote from The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb.
An increase in the influence of women in public life has often been associated with national decline. The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome.
In the tenth century, a similar tendency was observable in the Arab Empire, the women demanding admission to the professions hitherto monopolised by men. 'What,' wrote the contemporary historian, Ibn Bessam, 'have the professions of clerk, tax-collector or preacher to do with women? These occupations have always been limited to men alone.'
Many women practised law, while others obtained posts as university professors. There was an agitation for the appointment of female judges, which, however, does not appear to have succeeded.
Soon after this period, government and public order collapsed, and foreign invaders overran the country. The resulting increase in confusion and violence made it unsafe for women to move unescorted in the streets, with the result that this feminist movement collapsed.
I see I have an ally Sir John Glubb
ta Gallivanter
Mobo the invasion you fear is not Visisgoths, Vandals or Huns....it is Islam.
I have little sympathy for us here. If we do not want Muslims in our lands then perhaps we should have stayed out of theirs.
It appears our future is to be ruled by women or Islam, take your choice!
ta Gallivanter
Mobo the invasion you fear is not Visisgoths, Vandals or Huns....it is Islam.
I have little sympathy for us here. If we do not want Muslims in our lands then perhaps we should have stayed out of theirs.
It appears our future is to be ruled by women or Islam, take your choice!
Glubb had more to say about the fall of empires, including the Arab Empire. He compared it to Britain of the late 20th century.
I quote:
In the eleventh century, the former Arab Empire [was] then in complete political decline. The Arabs [...] were still the intellectual leaders of the world. During the reign of Malik Shah, the building of universities and colleges became a passion.
Whereas a small number of universities in the great cities had sufficed the years of Arab glory, now a university sprang up in every town.
In our own lifetime, we have witnessed the same phenomenon in the U.S.A. and Britain. When these nations were at the height of their glory, Harvard, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge seemed to meet their needs. Now almost every city has its university.
[...]
The works of the contemporary historians of Baghdad in the early tenth century are still available. They deeply deplored the degeneracy of the times in which they lived, emphasising particularly the indifference to religion, the increasing materialism and the laxity of sexual morals.
[...]
The historians commented bitterly on the extraordinary influence acquired by popular singers over young people, resulting in a decline in sexual morality. The 'pop' singers of Baghdad accompanied their erotic songs on the lute, an instrument resembling the modern guitar. In the second half of the tenth century, as a result, much obscene sexual language came increasingly into use, such as would not have been tolerated in an earlier age.
[...]
When I first read these contemporary descriptions of tenth-century Baghdad, I could scarcely believe my eyes. I told myself that this must be a joke! The descriptions might have been taken out of The Times today. The resemblance of all the details was especially breathtaking - the break-up of the empire, the abandonment of sexual morality, the 'pop' singers with their guitars, the entry of women into the professions, the five-day week.
I would not venture to attempt an explanation! There are so many mysteries about human life which are far beyond our comprehension.
I quote:
In the eleventh century, the former Arab Empire [was] then in complete political decline. The Arabs [...] were still the intellectual leaders of the world. During the reign of Malik Shah, the building of universities and colleges became a passion.
Whereas a small number of universities in the great cities had sufficed the years of Arab glory, now a university sprang up in every town.
In our own lifetime, we have witnessed the same phenomenon in the U.S.A. and Britain. When these nations were at the height of their glory, Harvard, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge seemed to meet their needs. Now almost every city has its university.
[...]
The works of the contemporary historians of Baghdad in the early tenth century are still available. They deeply deplored the degeneracy of the times in which they lived, emphasising particularly the indifference to religion, the increasing materialism and the laxity of sexual morals.
[...]
The historians commented bitterly on the extraordinary influence acquired by popular singers over young people, resulting in a decline in sexual morality. The 'pop' singers of Baghdad accompanied their erotic songs on the lute, an instrument resembling the modern guitar. In the second half of the tenth century, as a result, much obscene sexual language came increasingly into use, such as would not have been tolerated in an earlier age.
[...]
When I first read these contemporary descriptions of tenth-century Baghdad, I could scarcely believe my eyes. I told myself that this must be a joke! The descriptions might have been taken out of The Times today. The resemblance of all the details was especially breathtaking - the break-up of the empire, the abandonment of sexual morality, the 'pop' singers with their guitars, the entry of women into the professions, the five-day week.
I would not venture to attempt an explanation! There are so many mysteries about human life which are far beyond our comprehension.
That is amazing, Gallivanter.
I shall have to read Glubb.
My point is that men and women should complement one another...there is no sense in having men and women doing the same thing,
otherwise there would be only one sex.
I think we need to keep the separate roles, which we have evolved for.
The West is obsessed with sex and materialism. Our country is totally obsessed with historic sexual abuse.
I do not actually approve of sexual abuse, but we have to keep it in proportion. There are other things in life.
By having men and women competing against each other our society grows ever more vicious, because women's job is to calm
men down, which they do not want to do, they just want power for themselves.
This will all explode out of control one day. Hopefully after I am gone.
I shall have to read Glubb.
My point is that men and women should complement one another...there is no sense in having men and women doing the same thing,
otherwise there would be only one sex.
I think we need to keep the separate roles, which we have evolved for.
The West is obsessed with sex and materialism. Our country is totally obsessed with historic sexual abuse.
I do not actually approve of sexual abuse, but we have to keep it in proportion. There are other things in life.
By having men and women competing against each other our society grows ever more vicious, because women's job is to calm
men down, which they do not want to do, they just want power for themselves.
This will all explode out of control one day. Hopefully after I am gone.
I have just watched Time Commanders on BBC4 where the fall of the Roman Empire has been moved forward.
The last great Roman commander Flavius Aetius defeated Attila the Hun at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
However in a re-enactment of that battle Attila won, so the Roman Empire in the West fell even quicker than we thought.
The last great Roman commander Flavius Aetius defeated Attila the Hun at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains.
However in a re-enactment of that battle Attila won, so the Roman Empire in the West fell even quicker than we thought
.
Ebul, Glubb had a theory that empires last about 250 years, which he reckons as ten generations. I give some examples below (if it formats correctly).
[pre]
The nation Dates of rise and fall Duration in years
Assyria 859-612 B.C. 247
Persia 538-330 B.C. 208
Greece 331-100 B.C. 231
Roman Republic 260-27 B.C. 233
Roman Empire 27 B.C.-A.D. 180 207
Arab Empire A.D. 634-880 246
Mameluke Empire 1250-1517 267
Ottoman Empire 1320-1570 250
Spain 1500-1750 250
Romanov Russia 1682-1916 234
Britain 1700-1950 250
[/pre]
Note that he sees the Roman "Empire" as coming in two phases, the Republic followed by the Empire itself.
As for the Huns, Glubb remarked that the Hunnic coalition was only a power in Western Europe from 450 to 453 when it promptly fell apart on the death of Attila and the Huns returned to Eastern Europe.
[pre]
The nation Dates of rise and fall Duration in years
Assyria 859-612 B.C. 247
Persia 538-330 B.C. 208
Greece 331-100 B.C. 231
Roman Republic 260-27 B.C. 233
Roman Empire 27 B.C.-A.D. 180 207
Arab Empire A.D. 634-880 246
Mameluke Empire 1250-1517 267
Ottoman Empire 1320-1570 250
Spain 1500-1750 250
Romanov Russia 1682-1916 234
Britain 1700-1950 250
[/pre]
Note that he sees the Roman "Empire" as coming in two phases, the Republic followed by the Empire itself.
As for the Huns, Glubb remarked that the Hunnic coalition was only a power in Western Europe from 450 to 453 when it promptly fell apart on the death of Attila and the Huns returned to Eastern Europe.
ebul
it is going to be a woman who wants sharia law incorporated into english law
our very own prime minister
it is going to be a woman who wants sharia law incorporated into english law
our very own prime minister
Well I suspect it is easier to create Empires than keep them together, so I would not argue with that Mobo.
Theresa May want's Sharia Law, well there is a women for you?
Still I think she is better than Cameron, which did not say a lot for him.
Theresa May want's Sharia Law
, well there is a women for you?Still I think she is better than Cameron, which did not say a lot for him.
As we are now a multi faith society, the law needs to be above and independent of all religions.
Otherwise we will only create resentment.
Also Muslims in our society cannot expect all the comforts of home, they have to go and live in a Muslim Theocracy to get that
Just my own opinion.
Otherwise we will only create resentment.
Also Muslims in our society cannot expect all the comforts of home, they have to go and live in a Muslim Theocracy to get that
Just my own opinion.
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