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Jack Hacksaw
23 Aug 16 13:18
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Date Joined: 08 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 5,322 | Blogger: Jack Hacksaw's blog
Watched it last night.  Available on iPlayer.

Two jobs this week were hotel room cleaning and recycling sorting conveyor work.

Conclusions drawn so far from the programme.  Foreign workers in the minimum wage jobs work harder.  A lot of the workers have 'attitude'.  It is easy
for all sorts of people of all ages to get 'trapped' into minimum wage jobs.

Usual discussion with Union leaders, Guardian columnist and economists.

Always wondered how long cleaners had to do rooms in hotels.  24 minutes at the budget hotel shown in Manchester.  (They only empty foreign cleaners)

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By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Aug 16 13:31
That's why we import so much labour - to force down wages and provide an abundance of cheap labour.

Yet the intellectual lefties still deny the plan. Also the union leaders who quite frankly would be strung up by their thumbs if their members weren't so dumb.

Oversupply of labour which is what freedom of movement is all about = cheap labour. What else is there to know?

Yet that basic principle seems to elude the working classes.
By:
ebulGery
When: 23 Aug 16 13:41
I see it all right Dr Crippen

....mind you long time since I workedSad, wont now pensioner

I never did understand why the left supported immigration???????????????????????????????
By:
ebulGery
When: 23 Aug 16 13:45
I think we need to teach a work ethic in this country, so all children from an early age

will know they have a duty to society to work.

All we teach is competition and everything is about money.
By:
rogerthebutler
When: 23 Aug 16 14:13
I never did understand why the left supported immigration???????????????????????????????

I think it's an international / intellectual thing.

Capital can cross borders at the click of a button so why can't Labour?

This position may well fk over your core supporters, but then logical consistency isn't a left-wingers strong suit.
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Aug 16 15:09
Some of us would be protectionists over capital as well as labour. Remember that was the core of the anti-EU policies of the Labour Party in the early 80s.
By:
Jack Hacksaw
When: 23 Aug 16 16:45
Strangely, I don't remember any mention of working tax credits in the programme.
By:
MC Roller
When: 23 Aug 16 18:44
Strange timing for the programme. I thought all GB medal winners at the Olympics were Britain's hardest workers. Make your minds up bbc.
By:
DIE LINKE
When: 23 Aug 16 19:27
Take a look at the Anyone on here ever lived or still lives in Eastern Europe? thread on here for a prime example of British youth. 26 years old, still lives at home, virtually unemployed (whatever that means), now wants to go from poncing off his parents to poncing around Eastern Europe then back to poncing off his parents. Most employers round here go directly to Eastern Europe for workers and who can blame them?
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 23 Aug 16 19:54
Same twunt, holier than thou, responses as ever on here.

It couldn't be that the situation is awful for millions of low paid workers could it?
It couldn't be that the fault might lie with successive governments, globalisation and the desire by those with money to make and keep it all for themselves could it?
It couldn't be that the cost of living is about the highest in the world and ridiculous rents and bills mean people can't manage could it?
It couldn't be that there is little or no union voice for the majority of workers could it?
It couldn't be that zero hours contracts are intrinsically unfair and basically wrong, could it

Sure the BBC is doing the PC thing - Asian woman presenter and the complete cross section of 'contestants' for a type of misplaced 'reality challenge' - but this doesn't make them lefties (again, whatever that means).

The simple fact is that if poor people were presented with reasonable amounts of money then it would circulate and travel through the system, including in all the various forms of tax we all pay. Instead governments give it (by way of quantitative easing) to banks who either keep it or give it to those who already have loads.

We are now SO close to the Victorian systems championed by government of 30 years ago, it's terrifying.

Those who earn too much for doing mostly thuck all think wages are an evil and wouldn't dream of doing a fraction of what the poor sods on this programme (and millions like them) are forced into doing, especially for the amount they earn.

Still, as long as the share holders (not mostly pension funds and almost entirely already relatively people) are happy, eh?

As for tax credits.... very little for those with no kids.
By:
mobo
When: 23 Aug 16 21:37
the 1 percent get richer and the poor get poorer.  MUGS!!
By:
digdeep
When: 23 Aug 16 23:34
Tonight they were picking veg and also processing food (ready made meals)if anyone still eats these  meals insteading of cooking them the old fashion way this prog should have changed their mind.
By:
DStyle
When: 24 Aug 16 14:05
what struck me about the two episodes I have watched were the undertones from the factory manager that he found the casualisation of work abhorrent, and the sickening apologism from the economics journalists.

It seems quite obvious to me that the influx of eastern europeans has allowed employers to exploit low paid workers. It's not just about the pay and what is expected for that level of pay, it's about a complete lack of representation, zero hour contracts, paying for travel expenses to have a chance of being given work (last night's episode), etc. Essentially an employer having pretty much everything their way, because their employees let them.

It's not that immigrants have taken our jobs, the jobs are still there, it's that employers have recognised that they can completely f*ck over the immigrant workforce and by and large, they are the only ones who will tolerate it.

People might like to point their fingers at immigrants, but it's staggeringly obvious that it's the employers who've made it this way.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 24 Aug 16 14:16
The point to take from this, is that the workers aren't being represented.

If fact the people who claim to represent them are selling them down the river.

These are the Labour party and their self serving MPS. Along with the rich union officials who themselves are  doing very nicely thank you.

Poorly paid workers are poorly paid for a very good reason. I won't spell it out.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 18:36
unbelievable!!!!

There aren't many people who would say it's Labour's fault that workers have no representation.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 18:38

Aug 24, 2016 -- 2:05PM, DStyle wrote:


what struck me about the two episodes I have watched were the undertones from the factory manager that he found the casualisation of work abhorrent, and the sickening apologism from the economics journalists.It seems quite obvious to me that the influx of eastern europeans has allowed employers to exploit low paid workers. It's not just about the pay and what is expected for that level of pay, it's about a complete lack of representation, zero hour contracts, paying for travel expenses to have a chance of being given work (last night's episode), etc. Essentially an employer having pretty much everything their way, because their employees let them. It's not that immigrants have taken our jobs, the jobs are still there, it's that employers have recognised that they can completely f*ck over the immigrant workforce and by and large, they are the only ones who will tolerate it.People might like to point their fingers at immigrants, but it's staggeringly obvious that it's the employers who've made it this way.


Very true.

By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 18:43
Bloke I know got a job, through an agency (and therein lies some blame, btw) to take down tents/marquees etc. Been working on the dismantling of the V festival. Only non-eastern European there. Team leader (English) lets them had no break all day "You're not paid to take breaks" and wouldn't even let them drink some water "You're paid to work, not drink". I'd have shoved the water bottle up his arse, but the people are SO desperate to earn anything they put up with the bullying. His Mrs phoned the agency who got him the job, they promised to look into it (yeah, right!) - I'll know more tomorrow.
By:
akabula
When: 24 Aug 16 18:48
Flooding the job markets at that level with immigrants is the problem.
By:
mobo
When: 24 Aug 16 18:50
I have no sympathy with these unqualified low paid. They are there for a reason. If they are not happy just go and get another job.  Plenty of jobs in the city RBS etc all hiring at the moment as we float on the top of a near bull market.
Go and buy a few clothes shops and screw your employees for their pensions - and mae a fortune.
Its all good fun

Then again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 18:55
That, mobo, is unfortunately the view of the media, the government and the banks, because they all think everyone is like they are and mostly do M-F 9-5.30 in an office.

I think Dstyle got that right, akabula. Spiv employers (and this includes big employers) are actively seeking out the cheapest labour and taking advantage of it.
By:
lfc1971
When: 24 Aug 16 18:57
Dr Crippen is right. The Labour party and the unions have brought about this mess by their policy of mass immigration.
They have welcomed it and are determined that it will continue.
By:
lfc1971
When: 24 Aug 16 19:00
The Polish government, and others have failed in their duty to plan and invest in jobs for their own population. No they send them to Britain, they must think the British people are mugs.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:08
Yes that's how it happens......


Crazy
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:16
If the Amazons of this world (as mentioned by manager of latest job) paid all their tax and had to charge full price for their goods, then the level playing field might help fairer employment conditions.

This programme seems to be mainly showing how it is and not judging, my biggest issue with it is the BBC turning it into a sort of Masterchef competition.
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:20
lfc1971  • August 24, 2016 6:57 PM BST 
Dr Crippen is right. The Labour party and the unions have brought about this mess by their policy of mass immigration.
They have welcomed it and are determined that it will continue.


I have not noticed any reduction in immigration since the Tories came back into power into 2010?

That is because it suits them, it forces the wages of the poor down, the rich get richer.

The truth is the World has not recovered from the Credit Crunch, there is recession everywhere, worse in some places than others.

We need war, plague or famine. It was WWII which ended the world wide recession caused by the 1929 Wall Street Crash.

The only way Labour or Conservative could have stopped immigration was by coming of the EU. Labour should have taken us out

in 2001 when Eastern European countries were allowed to join the EU(against its own rules). The only thing we get from them is people.
By:
ZenMaster
When: 24 Aug 16 19:21
Did the documentary mention that minimum wage in the UK converts into national average back home in Poland?

No surprise that the Polish are more keen to slave away at minimum wage. That £7 or so an hour in the UK, converts into plenty of Zloty.
You can pack boxes in the UK and you are earning as much as a teacher back in Poland.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:21
And living the life of riley, or being exploited, ZenMaster?
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:23
That is true Zenmaster, Poland are poorer than us, that is why their workers come here.

Nobody got rich under communism.
By:
mobo
When: 24 Aug 16 19:26
1 per cent get very rich here though - aren't we lucky!!
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:27
Only if we are in the 1 per cent Mobo, I am notCry
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:28
What was for ages "Blame the Benefits Scroungers for all the country's ills" is now "Blame the immigrants for all the country's ills".
Does it not occur that the Poles and others living here are spending here not spending the Zloty and they don't get to save much now, do they?

You can certainly fool most of the people some of the time and that is just what the government does. Ad Nauseum.

Divide and rule, and more of the same while they live in the Westminster bubble and so many others do their dirty work (spread the word) via forums, newspapers, social media and crap TV and radio.
By:
ZenMaster
When: 24 Aug 16 19:30
And living the life of riley, or being exploited, ZenMaster?


Many have a smash and grab short term mentality.
Work here for 3/4 years, in shared accommodation, save up and head off back home with enough money for a deposit on a flat.

UK workers don't have this option.
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:31
The Poles live very cheaply here. There is a house I know has 14Shocked of them, they must swap beds when they go on or come off shift.
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:32
The Poles work all right, but if they work, our guys don't. I know how hard our construction workers have been hit.
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 24 Aug 16 19:33
Not sure people are blaming immigrants, nobody can blame them on coming,  they are pointing the finger at the people who decided to let so many cheap workers into the country.
By:
ZenMaster
When: 24 Aug 16 19:38
Exactly Sonko, explaining how the system works and who benefits is not 'blaming' anyone.

I would do the same if i was Polish and in the same boat.

£7 an hour here, equates to £12 an hour in Poznan.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:38
UK workers could share 14 to a flat if they wanted, and swap beds after shifts if they wanted.
I can't help thinking there is an element of urban myth about this. Like the stories of benefit scroungers with 5 bedroom houses and free cars etc etc.

I agree, I Sonk. But I think you'll find they are.
From the Chinese cockle pickers to the Amazon workers to Poundland, people are being exploited, wherever they're from. The fault lies in loads of places.
By:
STUDYFORM
When: 24 Aug 16 19:41
Mostly greedy big business practice though, I think.
The accountants and junior managers trying to make a name for themselves and to save the company some money and the attitude that wages are a necessary evil and not used as a resource or respected.
By:
lfc1971
When: 24 Aug 16 19:42
lets see just how hard working and talented these workers are, how is Poland managing to survive without them?
Perhaps the Polish government would welcome them back now we are leaving Europe, i am sure we will soon see the Kingdom of Poland.
By:
ebulGery
When: 24 Aug 16 19:43
We cannot STOP immigration while we are in the EU.

If we come out the EU we lose access to the single European market.

We are between a rock and hard place here.

I don't know for sure our government will even honour the referendum.
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