The UNIVERSE.

Hi Brassbeck. Do you know why cats' eyes have a slit iris instead of a circular one like humans?

Is it because of all the cars driving over them?

*Brassneck
(sorry, hit the b which is next door to n).

Good answer Crags but wrong. Evolution doesn't work that fast.

Don't think that cats eyes have evolved much at all since Percy Shaw invented them, Foinavon.

Even better answer Crags, go to the top of the class.

To misquote a bit of Hawking..

If the universe was infinite then every line of sight would end with a star

Cleverer than he looks imo

the universe was stretched out - this provides the red shift.(hubble is wrong)
the big bang theory is - just that -  a theory.

Lots of physicists now think the speed of light is not a constant. (google it)
listen to this guy..
this explains a lot - The Decreasing Speed of Light - Dr. Barry Setterfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTlOVTDbNU

Zorro, as I understand it, the speed of light must have been much faster during the first couple of seconds after the big bang. Otherwise the elements of the universe could not have been created.

That leaves us with the problem that if the speed of light was once greater, it could be so again.

Georges Lemaitre (17 July 1894 - 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics. He proposed the theory of the expansion of the universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble. He was the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article. Lemaitre also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe, which he called his "hypothesis of the primeval atom" or the "Cosmic Egg".

A devout Catholic, he was also a rigorous scientist. In the early days of cinema, he watched a short film being rewound. It occurred to him that if a film had been made of the expanding universe, it could have been rewound to the beginning. That suggests that everything in the universe would have started from a single point (a singularity).

The Catholic Church had long pondered on how much space an angel would occupy, given that an angel is purely a soul without a body. The smallest point people could imagine in medieval times was the point of a needle. How many angels could exist on the point of a needle? (The Reformation mocked such concepts and talked of angels "dancing on the point of a needle".) Einsten's work later showed that particles could exist without mass, so there was no limit to angels on the point of a needle, whether or not they were dancing.

In summary, the Big Bang may well have occurred but the singularity would have been so small that it didn't exist.

As Douglas Adams put it: "First there was nothing and then it exploded."

Gallivanter
Gallivanter 24 Jul 16 03:19 Joined: 10 Mar 08 | Topic/replies: 2,835 | Blogger: Gallivanter's blog
Zorro, as I understand it, the speed of light must have been much faster during the first couple of seconds after the big bang



Total and utter carp

if something traveled faster than light


you would not go backwards in time


quite the reverse- compared to others not speeding along - time slows for you as you speed up- so you put a quid in a bank- pop off foe a few of your years at light speed +- and when you return you are rich coz hundreds of earth years have passed


you go forward in time
not back


you may be thinking of using a wormhole which a completely different proposition


I know- i have experience of this- but i would have to kill you if i told you

space - all space is expanding

space here on earth is expanding

all the 'time'

the distance between you and your front door - is expanding

I worked something else out.
IF there was a big bang everything was created together.so from the first second of exspandsion the light was out of the traps first and because it travels the fastest it is still well ahead of everything else.
so if it were possible for you to stand outside our expanding universe all you would see is a great ball of light.
remember brass told you first.

Another problem I have is the science of how water arrived on our planet earth.
I think my own theory is as good as any suggested.
my theory is that when our planet formed hydrogen and oxygen fused and circled our globe in a dark universe.it fused as ice covering our planet for over a billion years.when our sun arrived with nucular fusion and starting heating our world our planet ice block turned into an ocean planet.
I believe that my theory is more realistic than the guess that science go by stating that the water on this planet arrived on a comet that crashed into the earth.
remember brass told you first.

Why is it that the Big Bang 'created life' yet when rather large bangs occur on Earth they result in destruction of life and property..?

The Cambrian explosion created a lot of life

The only way water could have 'originated' on earth itself is through volcanoes, you need the electricity formed by the eruptions to join the atoms (more so the electrons), and the oxygen and hydrogen contained within the rocks,  it wouldn't then form ice in such an environment.

The Cambrian explosion created a lot of life

You stating that as fact? Quite a while ago if memory serves. Show me an explosion in the last 100 years that created life.

are you guys betting men?

because Francis Crick gives the odds of one protein forming as
one in ten to the power of 260
that's a 10 with 260 zeros attached.

I once had a winner for fifty pence on a 700/1 shot.
never a 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000 / 1 shot.

for one random protein. a cell needs a hundred all different. So Again imagine that 100 times. then these proteins have to meet. Get along to form a cell.

and that's after the universe was created with just the right parameters that
would be conducive to life.

if you factor in all the millions of so called random factors? it's a nonsense.

God Exists - Even Attenborough has turned? the DNA complexity is too big a hump. by itself.

people even say the 'evolution' of the car is remarkable?
We've 'evolved' in our friendship.
they drop it into everyday conversation.

Ladies and gents - there is a God.
and he's finishing his plan soon for us.
get right with him.
he only asks you to accept his son as your saviour.
He isn't asking for you to go to a church. You are the church(Paul)
You are the temple. the third temple.

you've been duped by the father of lies.
Science is a fine thing for the body and nice to wile away the time.
but your soul needs the father,the son and the holy spirit.

deny you have a soul. that's what you are doing. bury that.

^^^
Who created the creator?

Ignoring that superstitious nonsense from Zorro there are good reasons for a Big Bang several of which have been mentioned already. Olber's Paradox of "Why is the Sky Dark", the Microwave Background Radiation and Hubble's Red Shift are answered. It's the best theory we have atm.

I'm also not convinced by the Big Bang and still a fan of the Steady State Universe maybe modified somewhat from what Fred Hoyle envisioned (btw it was Hoyle who coined the term Big Bang as a derogatory term against his theory).

I'm not a mathematician and don't know the full implications of each model but The Steady State requires just 1 atom created per year for every light year of space for it to work. This would explain the expansion of the Universe, Red shift and cure Olber's paradox also. The atoms could come from the disintegration through time of black holes as per Hawking Radiation.

'suuperstitious nonsense'?

Classic put down of anyone who dares dispute Darwin's leap of faith.

Ahh Fred Hoyle, glad you mention him..'The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.'

I believe in science and religion has no place in it. If there is a creator then he's a very benign creator who has no bearing on me whatsoever. He rolled the dice an that's it.

I have read his autobiography, can't remember that quote but don't doubt you.

My own thoughts are that life is rife in the Universe, quite possibly in the seas of Europa, Ganymede and Encelydous. Big thinking beings capable of space travel are a lot rarer, we could possibly be the only ones in this Galaxy. Given the Universe is so huge and chemical combinations take time to work, I think DNA is inevitable.

None of which requires a benign being.

I believe in science and faith sir. I'm fairly sure the 2 are one and will publicly join together very soon.

Ahh Fred Hoyle, glad you mention him..'The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.'

Given that the Universe has been here forever then anything is possible.
I agree with Ovalman as regards religion being superstitious nonsense.
If there is a creator he is nothing like that as preached from the pulpits or written about in the bible.
My thinking has always led me to believe that for God read Mother Nature.

but perhaps our universe is just a tiny soap bubble in a bath full of suds ,the problem is who run the bath,and if he is finished has he pulled the plug out' and it he did that could be the reason that we think we are expanding.

We're all going down the plug hole sooner or later brassneck

Some wild leaps of imagination on this thread mostly at odds with present day science. Keep them coming.

there's your problem Ovalman... churches, chapels and their pulpits haven't got many
physicists giving you sermons. The bible eludes to certain things God has done but the language used in the bible is for everyone. Not just Scientists. It's a conversation to every man and you don't need an IQ test to get the gist of it. god's language is metaphor.
in twelve places he 'stretched out the heaven'. Barry Setterfield( physicist ) goes through why this works. He explains that turbulence of that stretching out provides constant energy in the vacuum of space that is self perpetuating. Making the universe electromagnetically stable. Without the right range of electromagnetic stability you would fall through your chair if you sat on it. he goes through five discrepancies that the big bang model has that means it's totally wrong. watch the youtube video. 

read - http://www.setterfield.org/zpe.htm
watch youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTlOVTDbNU

And the big bang.all was contained in a little atom before it expanded.So its my guess that all the gravity that ever existed or will ever exist was in that little pea.So how come it did not do its job and hold everything in place,or did gravity invent itself a few billion years after this big bank.

bang.

theory - theory -

the big bang theory.

i have theories about all sorts of stuff.
but I keep it closed, coz they are not provable.
As there are at least five factors that don't line up.
the big bang theory is a big bust.

it's a failed theory.

i've discovered the truth...

God and the devil are making pizzas.

All the good souls are toppings on god's pizza
all the bad toppings are on the devil's pizza.

to serve mankind. it's a cook book.

So who created the creator?

The Big Bang has testable evidence. Religion is just wishful thinking. It made sense when events couldn't be explained until science came along. Time to move on.

My favourite quote has long been misattributed to Carl Sagan:

“You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe”

exactly

science is a belief system

quantum science is a world of weirdness.

you are not a solid object - an atom is 99.9 percent empty space.

“You can't convince a believer(of science) of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe”

the big bang theory is 'theory' not a provable fact. (has five observational flaws). means it's ballz.
The speed of light is not a constant (fact)
cern noticed a particle going faster than light.

Science theories are beliefs. Not proofs.

Science is fine for small things like your tv,car and some medicines(poisons).

they say put your faith in science. it's a belief system .
it's only a tool. but it's become a religion.

big bang THEORY
evolution THEORY.

where is the word FACT.

In the beginning ..God.

As you'll know the first rule of science is that nothing comes from nothing. Therefore for some scientists to tell us that life came from nothing is rather disengenious..

Science is at last admitting that feelings/emotions can alter situations. In religion that's called prayer.

Science and faith are one. In time this will be acknowledged.

Interesting thread.How can space "end"? Can't get my head around that.

I have issues with the infinite nothingness.
Im ok starting with nothing, ie a vacuum (no mass), which is everywhere (no position), and nothing happening (no way to measure time). And if i stretch it i can accept that an event happening within it like our exploding universe, doesnt necessarily affect the nothingness. The nothingness has nothing else to compare the event to to say how big the event is, where it is, how fast its moving, so the event doesnt make the nothingness any more quantifiable. If you look down in scale with a magnifying glass you can compare the sum of somethings parts with its whole but if you go up in scale to the biggest thing (the universe) then its clearly 'a something' but it has nothing else equal or greater to compare it or define it or define the nothingness its in. Fine.
But the problem is if the big bang happened once, why cant it happen again? And if it did then can you compare universes. And then that starts to define the space they are in and the nothingness becomes a something.

As of now, our best estimate of the speed of the universe's expansion is known as the Hubble Constant, but the problem is that nobody has yet established the exact measure of the Hubble Constant. Some recent research by the people at Planck has suggested that the HC is not as high as previously imagined, and that ergo the universe is not expanding quite as quickly as we had thought.

That we know the universe is expanding does of course throw open any number of questions. How exactly is it expanding? Did the space into which it expands exist before?

Somehow at the Big Bang, more matter than antimatter was created. That is the only way that the universe can exist. We have no idea, even at this close a remove to the BB, how this happened, we just assume it did happen.

As people have said above, all our current theories about the beginning, the passage and the possible duration of time are no more advanced than a baby's first picture with a crayon.

At present, our understanding of astrophysics depends on our acceptance of the existence of dark matter and dark energy, neither of which can be quantified or observed, and neither of which - in varying degrees - are acceptable to the Standard Model. They are just values attached to the quantity by which all our observations are out. We cannot explain the physical dimensions and arrangement of the matter in the universe without reference to the 80% of its total mass that is not there. Nor can we explain the expansion of the universe without reference to Dark Energy, which is again unquantifiable and its existence merely inferred from an absence of another satisfactory explanation.

In short we are nowhere. We are but apes.

ff sake - they know nothing.?

That we know the universe is expanding does of course throw open any number of questions. How exactly is it expanding? Did the space into which it expands exist before?

This may all be rubbish but first off, the universe is only expanding if youre inside it and using other things within the universe to determine size. Outside of the universe size has no reference in infinite space. There is nothing to compare the universe to to say how big or small it is or if its growing or shrinking. Thats not me saying that we can conveniently ignore that the universe is expanding once we get outside it, thats me saying that our size measurement only ever worked if you look at multiple objects and start comparing them.

Similarly with position; although its hard to dispute that the universe occupies a space, there are no other objects to triangulate where that space is so you cant say which bit of space its occupying. Again, that isnt finding a way to weasel out of our laws once you get outside the universe, its to say that we only ever had a concept of position within the universe because we were able to compare stuff thats in the universe. Outside the universe those options were never there, you just have a single object in infinite nothing with no identifiable position.

imo

so if everything started with a big bang 15 billion years ago and the universe is still expanding since, it means we are living  in a big bang  that has not stopped yet.

but are we expanding from one point. like the big bang theory. or are we expanding from
a line like a palette knife skimming across a canvas. Or a scroll unrolling.

that's a fantastic theory,a scroll unrolling ,I never thought of that,and its possible.
in the old days if a scientist came up with an idea he had about space nobody cared to challenge it.
its only in the last 100 years that people started to disagree .
I bet nobody ever challenged hubble,he said it was expanding and you would be recognized as a clever man of wisdom if you agreed with hubble.And if the maths did not work out for Einstein he added (+nature factor)to his sums and all would agree because most did not understand .

the bible says - God stretched out the heavens. in twelve places.
a scroll is mentioned - I don't think it's paper though.
Barry Setterfield gives a good explanation that goes into all sorts
of factors. Including red shift observations. Plank's constant and
the speed of light - made a lot of sense. Takes into account radioactive
decay and other anomalous data.
youtube film.

loved the ZPE info - turbulence explanation.

And apart from Micheal Kaku(think that's his name)some very clever scientists say that nobody understands einsteins theory of relativity but many quote it to prove a point.

Thanks ZORRO,i got barry on you tube and I am going to have a look at it,thanks again.

will look at Micheal Kaku if he's on youtube - tired of
watching horizon and getting nothing from them.

I know him now(Micheal Kaku) saw a bit a few days ago - he was talking about
Yellowstone Park and it's current instability.
seems like a across the board media scientist. Been in Horizon a few times.

Ovalman, you mentioned the possibility of atoms being created by Hawking Radiation.

It's been a while since I last read his Brief History of Time but it left me with the impression that particles weren't necessarily escaping from black holes. Wasn't the idea that a particle and an accompanying anti-particle would approach an event horizon but only one would fall into the hole, leaving the other to move away from the hole? The so-called radiation was really nothing more than something not being absorbed.

It was once described to me as simultaneously throwing two tennis balls at a house with one hand. One of the balls breaks through a window, never to be seen again. The other ball bounces off the window frame and "radiates" from the house (the black hole).

With HTML you write out sentences to describe a square. The dimensions and the colour. You can go further into the background of what you see and get to the computer code.
In looking at the Universe the physicists look for smaller and smaller exotic particles?
the God particle, and other ones. I remember an old Horizon film with Richard Feynman looking for Strangeness minus three(omega Baryon)(1964). Always looking for particles.

But I believe they are looking for the wrong thing. All this missing matter and energy?

Jesus talked to a woman at a well in the gospel of John.
He reveals to her that God is Spirit. God is not exotic matter. He's not a physical being. He's more like pure will. Thy will be done. He wills the universe. ( some scientists say the universe behaves like a hologram) perhaps it's just a manifestation of his will.

you look for the typist not the code. find the Spirit ? not a particle.

Gallivanter, I think Hawking also came up with a theory that all Black Holes disintegrate through time. I think this was after the book was published. I read it 30 years ago and it was heavy going.

When a very large Star collapses it becomes either a Neutron Star or a Black Hole. A Neutron Star is where every atom is converted into a neutron but what about a black hole? Could it be it's a star collapsed to the size of a fundamental particle instead of nothing? It won't have zero size so infinities are never needed. Light still wouldn't escape as Gravity is still too strong. That's just a thought I have, I Googled the subject an it throws up a lot of interesting points.

There would be a way to test Hawkings radiating black holes but it would be hard to detect. At some point the black hole would not be a black hole and switch on again. This would produce a lot of energy that could be measurable.

This thread has got my grey matter ticking again.

Hey Zorro, what is a "spirit"? Can it be measured or quantified?

Guys have you ever wondered why, when you start a sentence, you do so in the sure knowledge (a knowing) that it will make sense and convey a message or meaning to the listener even though at the start you have no idea for example what the 3rd 5th 8th words etc will be, the same applies to this post!, WHY IS THAT???

The answers lie within, the trick is to learn how to look and ask the questions. The same applies to the subject of this thread, you are using your senses that are designed to allow you to orient in/on the physical plane you try to measure, to quantify the Universe, (there are many universes by the way) and they are not up to the job. You have not even explored your own being, the answer to the latter also answers the former.

No one has asked about the inner universe that existed before the 'known, universe was formed. you're looking for answers and you don't even know the questions!.

I'm a one fingered typist and lack the eloquence to convey a head full of ideas (ight or wrong) on such a vast subject, Trust your intellect, your intuition, don't be afraid of sounding silly because you are not contemplating (Thinking with the Temple) with perceived/learned wisdom. Try meditating (finding the middle place) instead.

Ovalman, a spirit is a poor description of a non physical entity, indeed language is a poor substitute for telepthy, but we're stuck with it because we practice one while denying the other. We have unlimited knowledge and abilities that are constrained by our senses which guard the ego  jealously from the ID and the greater self that is our psyche.

The above is a rare departure from the daily grind for me, but this fred has me looking again at things I have known/learned but shoved aside, thanks for that guys.

ZPE zero point energy was initiated at the start of the creation of the universe.
Its a energy that is in the background of the universe. It expands it's energy through turbulence. It creates particles and they disintegrate so quickly they almost don't exist. As Electrons go round their orbits in the atom. They are hit by these fragments of the ZPE 11,000 times per orbit. imagine a bus going down a road hitting thousands of snowballs. the bus (electron) is buffeted but maintains it's orbit.
As the universe gets older the ZPE is growing in energy.
Light as it passes through an object gets slower -  when you view a straw in a glass of water the difraction of the light distorts the straw to your eye. Because light is slowed by passing through a denser material than the vacuum of space(300,000 km per sec in the vacuum)

the ZPE is in the vacuum in space. At the birth of the universe it was weak, very weak so light travelled at ten million times the speed it does now.(300,000 km/sec x10,000,000)
there was no resistance to the light. as the ZPE grew in power through turbulence the light hit more and more resistance. Slowing progressively.
A cosmic year now. was 10,000,000 times faster in the past.
So although we see the universe as being 15,000,000,000 years old in light terms. It does not mean the time was passing as we perceive time now. it was whizzing past at a super high velocity. (think of Rod Taylor in the time machine).

but this time I have them stumped.
my question =why did the little pea( that was supposed to be containing all of the universe)not collapse in on itself and form a black hole.surely it had the density of all of the universe.
in other words one of their theory's are wrong.
either it resulted in a big bang or it formed a black hole.you cannot have both,so their theory of how a black hole is formed or their theory of the big bang cannot happen.ONE OF THEM IS WRONG.

Aaaaah, a quantum mechanical physical system ^^^ Zorro,  Well that's it then, we have the answer.............Hold on didn't scientists have the answers 100s of years ago??? but with each succeeding century the perceived wisdom was turned on its head, MMMMM that being the case then from a scientific point of view the only certainty we have is that our current 'perceived wisdom will follow suit, when the latest 'discovery comes along' current wisdom will be turned on it's head.
EE units that is Electromagnetic Units travel faster than light, currently this is thought hypothetically possible by our clever scientists under 'Special relativity' eg, a tachyonic particle is a hypothetical particle that always moves faster than light. Most physicists believe that this is not possible under the current known laws of physics. There's the rub'CURRENT KNOWN' laws.

EE units and CU's are responsible for the perceivable physical universe. as we know it, Why don't the atoms that compose the fingers I'm using to tupe this fly off in a million different directions??, whats the glue holding them together?, CONSCIOUSNESS!!....scientists are slowly getting there, but still think, it's an idealistic interpretation of quantum mechanics, and that this is a philosophical question about interpretation, not a scientific one.

I need a coffee!

THERE HAD TO BE A FORCE TO STOP THE LITTLE PEA FROM COLLAPSING IN ON ITSELF AND FORMING A BLACK HOLE OTHERWISE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO BIG BANG.
IN OTHER WORDS THERE HAS TO BE (DARE I SAY IT)AN INTELLENGENT FORCE OR A GOD.remember BRASSNECK told you first.

I don't understand thunder and lightening, it must be god.
I don't understand the rainbow, it must be god.
I don't understand volcanoes, it must be god.
I don't understand earthquakes, it must be god.
I don't understand where life came from and why we die, it must be god.
I don't understand the origins of the universe, it must be god.

so it simply means that a big bang theory and the formation of a black hole theory contradict each other.you cannot have both.
And the strength of the black hole theory far out weights the big bang theory leaving only and I stress only an intelligent force to start creation.

brassneck, the best peas went to Farrows.

Some problems are more difficult to solve than others. proposing an intelligent force is not a solution as you still have to work out how that intelligent force came about.

Foinavon is talking about 'All that is' some like to call this God, some like to personify their Gods.

We are all a part of 'All that is' the answer is within you own being. I'm too slow a typist for lengthy discussions on this. I will leave it to bigger, better, more eloquent and intelligent entities to so do.

I myself believe that the intelligent force or god has always been about but scientists have a different name for it not to offend anybody and they use it everytime they get cornered.
ITS called Dark energy.(AND THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT DARK ENERGY)
EVEN Higgs keeps shows up the dark energy in their collider but they cannot explain it.but its there every time and it controls everything.it had no creation and it has no end.and they cannot understand it.it sounds like the bible words.
"in the beginning there was dark energy ,and dark energy created the heavens and the earth,the suns the moons the stars and everything else."

Quantum say the pea was smaller than a grain of sand.

It's the scientific method. A theory which best fits all known facts is proposed then scientists spend their time and energies trying to disprove it. When that happens revisions or whole new theories are proposed to accommodate the new knowledge. It's how science progresses. No theory is accepted unless there is a way of testing it validity. There are gaps in our knowledge, dark energy is a theory proposed to plug one of the gaps. The job now is to find ways of testing this hypothesis and modifying the theory in the light of new evidence.

yes Foinavon,science is like the internet,forget about the past and the future,they both just keep updating .
and both keep changing each day as new evidence or data arrives,

Yes, some ideas are more solid than others, evolution for example is as close to fact as you can get as the amount of accumulated evidence is enormous. The way the planets move round the sun or the way chemical elements react with each other under given conditions are beyond dispute.
This is a great thread and I don't want to put a damper on it. Please carry on with your theories.

Scientific terminology and scientific caution are often manipulated and turned against us but there is no disputing science works. We have planes that fly, modern medicine, electricity and electronic devices which allows us to see events across the world as they happen, to name just a few achievements.

Would you gents please stop going around being so clever? Thank you kindly.

Ovalman, could what you said about black holes vanishing be explained in a different way? Suppose Hawking's original (from the book) concept of "radiation" from a black hole was correct. That is to say, a particle and an anti-particle reach the event horizon simultaneously but one of them swerves out of the way (radiates). That leaves a 0.5 chance of one falling through and the same chance of the other one not makng the journey.

With the huge gravitational force inside the black hole crushing everything inside together, and a similar number of particles and anti-particles present, the compression might overcome the natural "repulsion of pairs" and force a particle and anti-particle to collide and therefore vanish. Given enough time, most or even all of the components of the black hole would vanish.

Or have I made a schoolboy error somewhere?

Great thread, BTW. I'm looking forward to crossing swords with Zorro and BTF.

Einstein:

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

There are seven Universal Laws or Principles by which everything in the Universe is governed. The Universe exists in perfect harmony by virtue of these Laws. Ancient mystical, esoteric and secret teachings dating back over 5,000 years from Ancient Egypt to Ancient Greece and to the Vedic tradition of Ancient India, all have as their common thread these seven Spiritual Laws of the Universe. Once you understand, apply and align yourself with these Universal Laws, you will experience transformation in every area of your life beyond that which you have ever dared to imagine.

The Immutable and the Mutable: Of the seven Universal Laws, the first three are immutable, eternal Laws, meaning they are Absolute and can never be changed or transcended. They have always existed and will always exist. The other four laws are transitory, mutable Laws meaning that they can be transcended or at least "better used" to create your ideal reality. This is not to say that you should ignore these four Laws or attempt to defy them for even if you do they will still govern your existence. Your aim is to master each of the seven Universal Laws and only then learn to transcend the mutable ones.

1. The Law of Mentalism (Immutable): The first of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "The All is Mind - The Universe is Mental". That everything we see and experience in our physical world has its origin in the invisible, mental realm. It tells us that there is a single Universal Consciousness - the Universal Mind - from which all things manifest. All energy and matter at all levels is created by and is subordinate to the Omnipresent Universal Mind. Your mind is part of the Universal Mind - the same in kind with the only difference being one of degree. Your reality is a manifestation of your mind. This is true Mind Power.

2. The Law of Correspondence (Immutable): The second of the seven Universal Laws tells us "As above, so below; as below, so above". This means that there is "harmony, agreement and correspondence" between the physical, mental and spiritual realms. There is no separation since everything in the Universe, including you, originates from the One Source. The same pattern is expressed on all planes of existence from the smallest electron to the largest star and vice versa. All is One. The Ancient Greek Temple of Apollo at Delphi was referring to this great Law of Correspondence in the inscription "Know thyself and thou shalt know all the mysteries of the gods and the Universe".

3. The Law of Vibration (Immutable): The third of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates". The third and last of the immutable Universal Laws, tells us that "the whole universe is but a vibration". Science has confirmed that everything in the Universe, including you, is pure energy vibrating at different frequencies.

The axiom that "like energy attracts like energy", upon which the Law of Attraction is based, has it's foundation in this Law. Everything that we experience with our five physical senses is conveyed through vibrations. The same applies to the mental realm. Your thoughts are vibrations. All your emotions are vibrations where "unconditional love" (in the sense of love for another) is the highest and most subtle of the emotional vibrations and "hate" is the densest and most base. You can learn to control your mental vibrations at will. This is true thought power.

4. The Law of Polarity (Mutable): The fourth of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "Everything is dual, everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree". It is also the first of the mutable or transcendable Universal Laws. It means that there are two sides to everything. Things that appear as opposites are in fact only two extremes of the same thing. For instance, heat and cold may appear to be opposites at first glance, but in truth they are simply varying degrees of the same thing. The same applies to love and hate, peace and war, positive and negative, good and evil, yes and no, light and darkness, energy and matter. You can transform your thoughts from hate to love, from fear to courage by consciously raising your vibrations. This is what in the ancient Hermetic Teachings is called the Art of Polarization.


Rising Above the Law of Polarity: This Principle of Duality may appear to be very real in your life but it operates only in the physical and mental realms, not in the spiritual realm where All is One. As it says in the Bhagavad-Gita, "God is Above the Opposites". By always placing the all-powerful, all-knowing Great Spirit of which you are a part behind your every thought, statement and action, and by always focusing on the "good", even when things appear to be going "bad", then in time you will rise above the Law of Polarity.

5. The Law of Rhythm (Mutable): The fifth of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "Everything flows, out and in; everything has its tides; all things rise and fall; the pendulum-swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates." It is the second of the mutable or transcendable Universal Laws and means that the pendulum swings in everything. This principle can be seen in operation in the waves of the ocean, in the rise and fall of the greatest empires, in business cycles, in the swaying of your thoughts from being positive to negative and in your personal successes and failures. In accordance with this Law, when anything reaches a point of culmination then the backward swing begins almost unnoticeably until such time that any forward movement has been totally reversed, then the forward movement begins again and the process is repeated.


Rising Above the Law of Rhythm:  To transcend the swing of the pendulum, you must become aware of the subtle start of the backward movement in any of your endeavours whether it be to improve your health, your finances, your relationships or any goal you may set in motion. When you feel the Law start to draw you back do not become fearful or discouraged. Instead, knowing that you are one with the Omnipotent Universal Mind for which nothing is impossible, keep your thoughts focused on your outcome and fight to remain positive no matter how far back this transitory Law pulls you. Even if your efforts meet with failure, find comfort that by virtue of this very same Law, the upward motion must start again. In time, your perseverance will be rewarded as the backward movements become less negative relative to your previous backward swings and you raise yourself higher.

6. The Law of Cause and Effect (Mutable): The sixth of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "Every cause has its effect; every effect has its cause." In accordance with this Law, every effect you see in your outside or physical world has a very specific cause which has its origin in your inner or mental world. This is the essence of thought power. Every one of your thoughts, words or actions sets a specific effect in motion which will come to materialize over time. To become the master of your destiny, you must master your mind for everything in your reality is a mental creation. Know that there is nothing like chance or luck. They are simply terms used by humanity in ignorance of this Law.


Your Intentions are Instantly Created: The Law of Cause and Effect applies on all three planes of existence - the spiritual, the mental and the physical. The difference is that on the spiritual plane cause and effect are instantaneous such that they appear inseparable, whereas on the other planes our concept of time and space creates a time lag between the cause and the eventual effect. Know that when you focus on your chosen goals with intention using creative visualization, that which you want to create in the physical world is automatically manifested in the spiritual world, and with perseverance, practice and continued concentrated thought, it will also come to materialize in the physical world.

7. The Law of Gender: The last of the seven Universal Laws tells us that "Gender is in everything; everything has its masculine and feminine principles". This mutable Universal Law is evident throughout creation in the so-called opposite sexes found not only in human beings but also in plants, minerals, electrons and magnetic poles to name but a few. Everything and everyone contains both masculine and feminine elements. Among the outward expressions of feminine qualities are love, patience, intuition and gentleness and of masculine qualities are energy, self reliance, logic and intellect. Know that within every woman lie all the latent qualities of a man, and within every man those of a woman. When you know this you will know what it means to be complete.

The Law of Attraction as Part of the Equation: You will notice that the Law of Attraction is not specifically mentioned as one of the seven Universal Laws. This is not to diminish its importance but rather to highlight it because the Law of Attraction is the basic Law of the Universe which runs through all the seven Universal Laws discussed here. It holds everything together. It is through the knowledge of the Law of Attraction that one can rise above the mutable Laws of Polarity and Rhythm and gain a better understanding of each of the seven Universal Laws.

Credit to The Science of Being and The Kybalion: This article draws largely on two sources of incomparable wisdom on the seven Universal Laws. First, on the Baron Eugene Fersen's 1923 masterpiece, The Science of Being, which is one of most comprehensive books ever written on the innate power of humanity, the subject of metaphysics and self-mastery; and second, on the 1908 seminal work on the Universal Principles, namely The Kybalion, which is a study of The Hermetic Philosophy of Ancient Egypt and Greece, itself based on the mystical teachings of Hermes Trismegistus and written by the so-called Three Initiates.

There is no fight between science and belief in an intelligent designer.

They're the same. Science is agreeing that emotions can alter events (see quantum physics), religion calls that prayer.

Golfers are the most confident sportspeople. They embrace visualisation as a science and will always talk up their chances..'I'm swinging great, I'm hitting it well, my putting is good'. They know such techniques work.

Jesus said 2000 years ago 'when you pray, believe you have received what you've asked for and it will be yours'. 'Say to the mountain, be cast into the sea and if you believe, it will be'.

to counter Shanelee - the universe is BIG.

Barry Setterfield

ZPE - zero point energy - electromagnetic energy

ZPE zero point energy was initiated at the start of the creation of the universe.
Its a energy that is in the background of the universe. It expands it's energy through turbulence. It creates particles and they disintegrate so quickly they almost don't exist. As Electrons go round their orbits in the atom. They are hit by these fragments of the ZPE 11,000 times per orbit. imagine a bus going down a road hitting thousands of snowballs. the bus (electron) is buffeted but maintains it's orbit.
As the universe gets older the ZPE is growing in energy.
Light as it passes through an object gets slower -  when you view a straw in a glass of water the difraction of the light distorts the straw to your eye. Because light is slowed by passing through a denser material than the vacuum of space(300,000 km per sec in the vacuum)

the ZPE is in the vacuum in space. At the birth of the universe it was weak, very weak so light travelled at ten million times the speed it does now.(300,000 km/sec x10,000,000)
there was no resistance to the light. as the ZPE grew in power through turbulence the light hit more and more resistance. Slowing progressively.
A cosmic year now. was 10,000,000 times faster in the past.
So although we see the universe as being 15,000,000,000 years old in light terms. It does not mean the time was passing as we perceive time now. it was whizzing past at a super high velocity. (think of Rod Taylor in the time machine).

How would the light "hit more and more resistance"? In effect, how did the resistance get in front of the light at that speed?

I remember the dummy in the window in The Time Machine and the look on his face.

the denser the matter in front of light the slower it travels through it.


Light thru water slows to 3/4 speed.

old theory notes -
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/phys/Dept2/APPhys1/optics/optics/node4.html

ZPE is cumulative - spread evenly through the fabric of the universe. It feeds off it's own electromagnetic turbulence. like soup on the stove it's been slowly heating up. more energy invested creating more quick particles that implode and create more energy that creates more particles.

Yes, but when the first part of the light set off there was nothing in front of it. What's more, nothing could catch it nevermind overtake it. Ergo, it couldn't hit anything.

You could argue that it was somehow dragged back from behind but that would still entail something catching up with it.

Did you read all this thread Gallivanter?

My secretary read it and marked the salient parts.

"Great thread, BTW. I'm looking forward to crossing swords with Zorro and BTF." .......Zorro has a sword I don't. I'm off on my Astral travels (saves a fortune in petrol) I fancy mars tonight.

Jul 31, 2016 -- 8:50PM, Gallivanter wrote:

My secretary read it and marked the salient parts.

No - it was weak almost non existant. It's been building across the universe.
now its become a stronger force that resists the light.
All past measurements of light thru the centuries show a slowing effect.
never a gain? using same equipment in same locations.

imagine you make a lake of custard. It sets in 5 minutes. You put a motorized radio controlled motorboat in the middle of the lake. it sets off and its super quick. but the custard is constantly congealing. the boat starts to slow, gets slower til it's barely moving. Light is the boat. it looks like a steady rate because we are only looking at the last second of cosmic time. three hundred yrs of observation. a blink of an eye, in history.

FFS - get me some bowls at the poundshop for the cake, to go with all that custard.

Zorro, I'm told your cakes are extra light.

I like custard on rhubarb. I also like custard tarts.

Make for a more interesting universe... Full of tarts.

Now you're talking.

That's typical of chit chat. No matter the subject, we always move on to talking about bakewells.

Somebody have a look at the link I put on the Irish Wake thread (before it gets buried).

It's only a few billion years to the end of the universe, so  ...

LAST ORDERS PLEASE!

Injera 29 Jul 16 17:57  'when you pray, believe you have received what you've asked for and it will be yours'. 'Say to the mountain, be cast into the sea and if you believe, it will be'.


Right- I am going to pray and beieve that Phantom Menace at around 59/1 will win the 4.30 horserace today- and i'm going to believe it s much i will put all i can get on it at big prices .....

feck me- its already in to 41/1


i believe.....i pray.....i believe.........

traded as low as 4/1 IR


for one moment- just for a brief moment- .....


but no


Injira - proof positive- u r a ..................







































big disapointment

Always cash out.

if the universe comes to an end - then all this talk is meaningless.
All the arguments and one up man ship is non existent.
it lasted for a flickr of time and was snuffed out.

or the opposite is true?

Been on many of these threads and it's not worth thinking about.


Cant remember who said it, but...


"Life is meant to be lived, not understood".