Worse than a Victorian Workhouse !!

But it was all down to immigration wasn't it?



Greedy companies exploiting their workers, making them utterly worthless and expendable.

I'm particularly looking forward to the Tory govt making new legislation to protect worker's rights for when we leave the EU.



In other news today (and this one's for the Democracy fans who were so vocal a few weeks ago), after arranging for them to get a bumper pay-off at the taxpayer's expense, Cameron has tried to get his aides given peerages.


And...after govt voted to find the £200bn (!!!!) needed to replace trident bursaries are to be withdrawn from next year for nurses and midwives. That'll come in handy when we need to train up the thousands needed to replace those foreigners taking our jobs.



But yep, it's all the EU's and the foreigners' fault. Nothing to do with the decisions made from the capricious government in Westminister.

Baroness Falkender?

Cash For Honours - Blair 2006?

Plus ca change.

this is what happens when you have mass immigration, its simply supply and demand.

It's nothing to do with immigration! Good grief.


Honours system has always been crooked, but in the recent culture of making your own truth, it's flat out blatant.

The same thing has happened through the decades, with people dying in horrendous working conditions. It's just greed, pure and simple. It's companies being servants to the share price and dividend and if they can squeeze their Market Cap up another quarter a percent by putting their staff on zero hour contracts then they'll do it.

And it's governments (and I very much include Blair's) that have been happy to be led by big businesses, that have been short term fixes rather than sustained gradual improvements and has now brought the youth to the expectation that if they want any kind of qualification then they can expect a debt of £20k hanging over them.

if there is a surplus of labour wages and working conditions decline, if a shortage of labour wages and working conditions improve.
nothing else matters or helps or can change this fundamental

it is impossible for a country to be successful and prosperous and at the same time have a constant over supply of labour...the very nature of a successful economy means there must always be a shortage of labour, always.

And yet at any time in this country there have always been 5-12M people on the dole.


Sports Direct are the British version of the Indonesian sweat shop. If legislation is tightened up here and their practices outlawed, do you think they'll suck it up, re-write their contracts to have fairer terms, increase their wages and sit back while their sales go down and the company value drops. Or will they threaten to leave the country altogether so putting another few thousand on the dole?

Of course its to do with immigration and in this case solely to do with immigration.

This company employs and exploits unskilled immigrants,it can have these disgraceful conditions because there is an over supply of labour.

The old canard that's trotted out by the likes of Porcupineorapple and United Biscuits that the Brits are lazy and won't work so we need to import workers is just untrue.
It is however typical of the self loathers,what is true is the Brits don't want to work for nothing and they are dead right.

If you offer me a job for 2 pound an hour I'm not going to take it,it doesn't mean I'm lazy.

Zero hour contracts are an abomination and should be banned.

you have to ask why are people on the dole?

there will always be people on the dole between jobs at any given time.

well, I'm sure you could give a nice one-sentence reply but I'm guessing they're are myriad reasons.

You have to ask why people not from Britain are on the dole.
You have to ask why Imams are on the dole.

Welfare should only be for people who's family are British and have contributed into the system.

The nonsense of people with no connections to your country swanning in living on welfare and getting healthcare is just that nonsense.

There would be no need for cuts if Britain had welfare solely for Brits.

its a terrible thing.

its a terrible thing for someone to be on the dole.

The border is immaterial since the company will find the work off shore.
Not too many companies subscribe to ethics when they get fead a diet of endless competition and cost cutting through shareholder value maximisation.
Karl Marx's child labour of yesteryear just because child labour in another country today, or poor pay here.
It's know known as the race to the bottom in rewarding capital investment with a return on investment by crushing the workforce (either here in plain sight or brushed under the carpet in deepest Indian sewers)

*there are



jesus, sorry about that

It's nothing to do with immigration! Good grief.


It has everything to do with a conveyor belt of EU workers Pineapple.
It is a capitalists wet dream, and you support it.

The managers at Sports Direct, know that they can push up efficiency rates because of the competition on that conveyor belt.

You are obviously in denial.

dusty gets it. If the workforce dries up here, the company simply moves overseas. It's a global economy and there will be many companies willing to offer all manner of tax breaks and blind eyes to companies that will come in and create jobs there.

but its not a global economy unless we want it to be.

You can't legislate for India but you can for your own country.

These practices should be outlawed.
The minimum wage should be strictly enforced.
Agencies bringing in foreign workers should be banned.
Companies employing illegal workers should be closed permanently

the problem with it being a global economy is that the vast majority of countries are not capable of innovation, only a few are.

Well we can choose not to play the game. But you say to Conglomerate PLC either play by our rules or not. Then they'll put it to their board and decide any of the dozens of countries bending over backwards to take them may be better suited.

yes of course a company can relocate. let them go, that leaves an oppurtunity for local business to thrive and prosper.
in this world everyone can be replaced, its very simple.

we are not against people leaving Britain, the more people that leave the better. it is people coming in.

PorcupineorPineapple    Joined: 03 Dec 15
Replies: 1050 22 Jul 16 10:03 
dusty gets it. If the workforce dries up here, the company simply moves overseas.


So your basically saying workers should have no rights to a decent wage & conditions, keep the status quo as it is & let people be treated like sh!te because if you don't like being treated this way there is always someone else to take your place.
So let Ashley carry on treating people like worthless s c u m  just in case he facks off abroad, sooner he goes the better for all concerned imo.

But that's nonsense. It's akin to the argument that there are too many bookies, and getting the numbers reduced will allow high streets to thrive. There's plenty of room for UK businesses to start up and grow. It's not like they're being squeezed out by the behemoths.


If a company wanted to provide a genuine alternative to Sports Direct it would have to employ similar levels of cost cutting to ensure their end prices were anywhere the same ball park.

pump - no, I'm saying the solution, the alternative has to be much more substantive. Yes we can get t-shirts for £2 to go with our primark jeans for £3, get 2 litres of milk from Asda for 80p etc etc but there is an inevitable knock on effect.

yes that is why it is important that there must be a shortage of labour in any well run country. there has never in history been a successful country that did not have this characteristic, it is a virtuous circle.

Now that you have control of your borders you can stop the inflow of cheap labour.that would help your local business and your local workforce.

The Guardian readers are chasing their tails on this subject.

They want an end to cheap labour but want to continue with the free movement of over-supply low-skilled labour.
Plus leading up to the referendum vote, they bandied everyone who challenged this over-supply as being xenophobic or racist.

Idealists at work.

Well now we have control of our borders who's going to do the nursing and midwifery? The government have just announced there'll be even more debt for anyone wishing to train, and presumably the NF lot won't be happy with us importing fully trained up staff.


Still, at least we've got the missiles.

Zen, why after every 2nd post you make do you have to try to group the other person into a representative of "them". Jesus lad, get a grip.

Right, bicker on kids. Off out.

Pineapplehead, why dont you want british people to be trained and paid accordingly to the jobs you claim that are only for migrants ?

They are not harder workers than british people, we are just trying to undo 12 years when a labour government made it better for people not to work and be on the dole.

Yes they are so hard working and able I am sure they will be able to make a success of Poland

That's last comment is just pure sad.

No they're not,its just that Brits want a proper wage.

Acquiesce living up to his name with his craven self loathing.

How do you think Britain ruled the world for so long,I know you are taught thatitwas evil and terrible ( the self loathing of your education system ) but the Brits have no problem working.

My post is a reply to Acquiesce.

Firstly the argument that a company going off shore leaves opportunity for those here is wrong.
Each company works within its sector and it's competition are other companies doing the same thing, whether they are here or abroad.
The balance of payments deficit is essentially the evidence of the crime, as more and more companies leave or are sold to foreign owners in pursuit of margins for opportunity (each worker is employed only on the profit the company derives from their toil, not employed for the benefit of the community with which they exist) then this deficit increases, sectors close down locally and employment has to find another sector to cater for them.
Those companies that can off shore (like the cheap manufacture of garments) have, except where they need premises with which to stock and sell their wares (like the selling of sports shirts on high streets for eg) and then they have no alternative to employ local workers. They do so but at the same time lobby government to instal such deregulated practice like the 'works sale of rights' or whatever the monstrosity was called where politicians tried their hardest to allow enterprise to offer payments to individuals who signed away their workers rights (thus offering more margin to profit from the worker).

People argue that those flooding the workforce from abroad come here because our benefits system is better and that they are prepared to work in worse conditions. This is true, but you have to look at the round, this country is massively in debt, if it were a company in its own right it would have be closed down.
Are companies that exist and pay a dividend to those holding capital who profit directly from other people's labour, while the company itself is in debt upto it's eyes and only is permitted to continue because it employs so many that it's calapse would be devastating to the employment figure....well is that company a success or a failure?
Same is the case with this country that borrowed to high heaven and lived off that masquerade while the profit was taken mostly by a minority who flourished, mainly those speculating in the financial sectors.
The living standards are subsidised by a debt that will never be repaid.

Perhaps we will be hearing about the Kingdom of Poland soon, I don't doubt it.

Perhaps we will be hearing about the Kingdom of Poland soon, I don't doubt it.


Poland is doing ok lfc1971.

The Polish come here mainly because the £1000 a month in wages equates to the average gross wage in Poland, and can still qualify for working tax credits. Even more chance if the *claim* to be single. They can invest their saving back in Poland.

UK workers earning £1000 a month, are earning only half the average gross wage in the UK.

^^^^

One reason why Polish workers react quicker to a cracked whip.
They have a 5 year plan. Save up enough money for a deposit on a property back home in Poznan.

of course now we have left the eu perhaps we could say to the polish gov and people, look it is unfair that we should have the great benefit of millions of your  very able and talented people. It just didn't seem right and if it is ok, and who would doubt it would be, we will ask them to return to Poland,
what would be the reaction in Poland, in the gov and on the streets?
I don't know.

They would not have to thank us for employing so many millions of their citizens, certainly not.

The truth is lfc

Your workforce will be more motivated if there is light at the end of the tunnel(the Polish 5 year plan)
UK workers just about cover the costs of their overheads, saving a deposit for a property seems out of reach.

Don't send anyone home just pass a law saying welfare is only for the British.

That should get rid of a huge swathe of ne'er do wells.

Yes Wildman, on top of work visas and agency regulations.

The benefit system is what is crippling the country. A British man with a family gets a decent enough living from the state.
Why would he take a job that will only make him £50 a week better off for example, for working 40 hrs?

The long term unemployed must be given 3 strikes then forced to take a job, or face loss of benefit. Foreigners recieve no benefit unless they have contributed to the system first.

Of course having so many foreigners earning wages in this country, then sending the money home doesn't help local communities here either.

I think you will find that the biggest slice of the social security budget is taken by pensions, im sure the myth encouraged by the free market fanatics and their cheerleaders that the so called feckless are the root of Britains problems does not stand up to close scrutiny.

walofs, comparing pensioners and their cost to people who have not contributed to the system for a lifetime, its not pensioners fault they have worked towards retirement.

your mindset is bizarre.

I used to work in a place where you were docked 15 minutes pay for being 1 minute late.

My employer wasn't Mike Ashley, it was the British Government under both Labour & Conservative administrations.

Jul 22, 2016 -- 12:25PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:

walofs, comparing pensioners and their cost to people who have not contributed to the system for a lifetime, its not pensioners fault they have worked towards retirement.your mindset is bizarre.

How do you know they have never contributed , they may be in and out of work, to say that they are crippling the country is a tory fantasy

If you look at the social security budget the truth will stare you in the face , thats if the truth is what interests you.

i think it is right that people are docked fifteen minutes pay for being 2 minutes late. 1 minute would be also acceptable, it was 2 mins the norm in many factories for many years.
that is not a problem.

nothing new in docking people 15 min for being 1 or 2 minutes late...this is a good thing.

although it was also possible to get your mate to clock you in if you were a little late.

Lunchtime Medication at 13-00 hours lfc

first joiurneyman i ever had was never on time, but a terrific worker and very smart guy.

if you worked after right through the day until after midnight, just 5 mins after you were told not to clock out but go home and the foreman would clock out for you at 6.30 that morning....all at time and a half.

never had to worry about small trivialities like a minute or two here and there.

How dare pensioners claim money that they may have contributed too. disgusting

the money used to mount up to a tidy sum, but we put the hours in...plus a little bit extra.

very good management.

although it was also possible to get your mate to clock you in if you were a little late.

I wouldn't know about working in a factory & clocking on.  We had to sign in.  At 8 o'clock a red line would drawn under the list of names.

Anybody under the red line would be docked.

I was pointing out, that this procedure went on until the 1970's maybe later.  It was not something that only happened in Victorian times.

it was the norm in factories to be docked 15 min for being 1 or 2 min late. that was fine and made sense.

at the same time you could work what was known as a `ghoster`

that was working to 5 past midnight, and getting paid through to 6.30 in the morning, overtime rates

only the factory ghosts were there to witness

The disparity is that labour is scrutinised while extraction of capital is not.

If you can determine value of a worker's input then you have to measure the merit of capital extraction since the market isnt truly lessez-faire since its continually manipulated by opportunistic greedy individuals taking out a multiplier greater than their input.

Within a finite economy somebody has to pay that discrepancy and because ambition is used at a carrot and that altruism loses to greed within the human constitution then its those that do the work that are vilified.

The bottomline is it never gets addressed because those that take out fortunes and backslap each other while castigating others dont want to hear the truth that they arnt actually the masters of the universe after all and so greed is used as a euphemism for ambition.

ah clocking the good old days, we never worried though as we had the keys to the clock