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22 Jul 16
01:32
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14 Jun 05
not sportsman..........i dont care if they are a total a hole
gotta be TIGER WOODS
gotta be TIGER WOODS
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327 pga tour events............79 wins.............24%
60 World golf champ events.....18 wins.............30%
76 major events................14 wins.............18%
60 World golf champ events.....18 wins.............30%
76 major events................14 wins.............18%
Jim Thorpe
Describing Jim Thorpe as a great athlete would be doing him a severe injustice. A better description would be calling him the greatest athlete of the 20th Century. This label will probably be debated by many, but Thorpe's accomplishments speak louder than words. King Gustav V of Sweden told Thorpe: "Sir, you are the greatest athlete in the world."
James Francis Thorpe was born on May 28, 1887 in a one-room cabin near Prague, Oklahoma. Although there is much confusion on Thorpe's date of birth, this is the date according to his estate. He was born to Hiram Thorpe, a farmer, and Mary James, a Pottawatomie Indian and descendant of the last great Sauk and Fox chief Black Hawk, a noted warrior and athlete. Jim was actually born a twin, but his brother Charlie died at the age of nine. His Indian name, Wa-Tho-Huk, translated to "Bright Path", something that Thorpe definitely had ahead of him.
In 1904, Thorpe started school at Carlisle Industrial Indian School in Pennsylvania. The establishment offered American Indians the opportunity to gain practical training in over 20 trades, in addition to off-campus employment at local farms, homes or industries. Thorpe began his athletic career at Carlisle, both playing football and running track. He was triumphantly selected as a third-team All-American in 1908, and in 1909 and 1910 he made the first team. Iconic football legend Glenn "Pop" Warner coached Thorpe at Carlisle and was able to see the young phenomenon evolve in his pursuant excellence with athletics.
At the tender age of 24, Thorpe sailed with the American Olympic team to Stockholm, Sweden for the 1912 Olympic Games. Remarkably, he trained aboard the ship on the journey across sea. He blew away the competition in both the pentathlon and the decathlon and set records that would stand for decades. King Gustav V presented Thorpe with his gold medals for both accomplishments. As stated in Bob Berontas' "Jim Thorpe, Sac and Fox Athlete": "Before Thorpe could walk away, the king grabbed his hand and uttered the sentence that was to follow for the rest of his life.’Sir,' he declared, 'you are the greatest athlete in the world,' Thorpe, never a man to stand on ceremony, answered simple and honestly, 'Thanks King.'"
Thorpe's glorious Olympic wins were jeopardized in 1913 when it came out that he played two semi-professional seasons of baseball. The Olympics Committee had strict rules about Olympians receiving monetary compensation for participating in professional athletics. Thorpe, who stated he played for the love of the game and not the money, was put under the microscope. Ultimately, it was decided that his baseball experience adversely affected his amateur status in the track and field events. His name was removed from the record books and his gold medals were taken away.
Thorpe moved on after the Olympic ordeal and signed to play baseball for the New York Giants. He played outfield with New York for three seasons before relocating and playing with the Cincinnati Reds in 1917. He played 77 games with the Reds before finally returning to the Giants for an additional 26 games. In 1919 he played his final season in major league baseball, ending on the Boston Braves team.
During much of his baseball years, Thorpe was also immersed in professional football. He played for the Canton (Ohio) Bulldogs from 1915 until 1920 and the Cleveland Indiana (Indians) in 1921. In the years following, he organized, coached and played with the Oorang Indians, a professional football team comprised completely of American Indians. Additionally, he was instrumental in forming the American Professional Football Association, and eventually became the president of the group. Through the years, the association evolved into today's NFL. In all, Thorpe played with six different teams during his career in pro football, ending with a stint with the Chicago Cardinals in 1929.
Life after professional athletics was exciting for Thorpe. He worked as an extra in movies, served as superintendent of recreation in the Chicago Park System and was also quite vocal with matters of Indian affairs. He also had stints as a public speaker/lecturer and even led an all-Indian song and dance troupe entitled "The Jim Thorpe Show." The Merchant Marines even had the honor of Thorpe's presence, as he served with beginning at age 58.
Two monumental honors were bestowed unto Thorpe in 1950 when he was named "the greatest American football player" and the "greatest overall male athlete" by the Associated Press.
Thorpe died on March 28, 1953 of a heart attack. The New York Times ran a front page story, remembering the athlete, stating that Thorpe "was a magnificent performer. He had all the strength, speed and coordination of the finest players, plus an incredible stamina. The tragedy of the loss of his Stockholm medals because of thoughtless and unimportant professionalism darkened much of his career and should have been rectified long ago. His memory should be kept for what it deserves--that of the greatest all-round athlete of our time." Thorpe's medals were finally restored to him posthumously in 1982. In addition, and most importantly to his family, his name was put back into the record books.
Thorpe had married three times and was blessed with eight children. In 1913, he married Iva Miller. Their first son, James Jr., died at age three from an influenza epidemic during World War I but their three daughters, Gail, Charlotte, and Grace, lived into the 1990s. He married Freeda Kirkpatrick in 1926 and they had four sons, Carl Phillip (deceased), William, Richard, and John (Jack). Jack Thorpe, the youngest, became principal chief of the Sauk and Fox in the 1980s. At the time of his death, Thorpe had been married to Patricia Askew for almost eight years.
In 1950, the nation's press selected Jim Thorpe as the most outstanding athlete of the first half of the 20th Century and in 1996-2001, he was awarded ABC's Wide World of Sports Athlete of the Century.
Describing Jim Thorpe as a great athlete would be doing him a severe injustice. A better description would be calling him the greatest athlete of the 20th Century. This label will probably be debated by many, but Thorpe's accomplishments speak louder than words. King Gustav V of Sweden told Thorpe: "Sir, you are the greatest athlete in the world."
James Francis Thorpe was born on May 28, 1887 in a one-room cabin near Prague, Oklahoma. Although there is much confusion on Thorpe's date of birth, this is the date according to his estate. He was born to Hiram Thorpe, a farmer, and Mary James, a Pottawatomie Indian and descendant of the last great Sauk and Fox chief Black Hawk, a noted warrior and athlete. Jim was actually born a twin, but his brother Charlie died at the age of nine. His Indian name, Wa-Tho-Huk, translated to "Bright Path", something that Thorpe definitely had ahead of him.
In 1904, Thorpe started school at Carlisle Industrial Indian School in Pennsylvania. The establishment offered American Indians the opportunity to gain practical training in over 20 trades, in addition to off-campus employment at local farms, homes or industries. Thorpe began his athletic career at Carlisle, both playing football and running track. He was triumphantly selected as a third-team All-American in 1908, and in 1909 and 1910 he made the first team. Iconic football legend Glenn "Pop" Warner coached Thorpe at Carlisle and was able to see the young phenomenon evolve in his pursuant excellence with athletics.
At the tender age of 24, Thorpe sailed with the American Olympic team to Stockholm, Sweden for the 1912 Olympic Games. Remarkably, he trained aboard the ship on the journey across sea. He blew away the competition in both the pentathlon and the decathlon and set records that would stand for decades. King Gustav V presented Thorpe with his gold medals for both accomplishments. As stated in Bob Berontas' "Jim Thorpe, Sac and Fox Athlete": "Before Thorpe could walk away, the king grabbed his hand and uttered the sentence that was to follow for the rest of his life.’Sir,' he declared, 'you are the greatest athlete in the world,' Thorpe, never a man to stand on ceremony, answered simple and honestly, 'Thanks King.'"
Thorpe's glorious Olympic wins were jeopardized in 1913 when it came out that he played two semi-professional seasons of baseball. The Olympics Committee had strict rules about Olympians receiving monetary compensation for participating in professional athletics. Thorpe, who stated he played for the love of the game and not the money, was put under the microscope. Ultimately, it was decided that his baseball experience adversely affected his amateur status in the track and field events. His name was removed from the record books and his gold medals were taken away.
Thorpe moved on after the Olympic ordeal and signed to play baseball for the New York Giants. He played outfield with New York for three seasons before relocating and playing with the Cincinnati Reds in 1917. He played 77 games with the Reds before finally returning to the Giants for an additional 26 games. In 1919 he played his final season in major league baseball, ending on the Boston Braves team.
During much of his baseball years, Thorpe was also immersed in professional football. He played for the Canton (Ohio) Bulldogs from 1915 until 1920 and the Cleveland Indiana (Indians) in 1921. In the years following, he organized, coached and played with the Oorang Indians, a professional football team comprised completely of American Indians. Additionally, he was instrumental in forming the American Professional Football Association, and eventually became the president of the group. Through the years, the association evolved into today's NFL. In all, Thorpe played with six different teams during his career in pro football, ending with a stint with the Chicago Cardinals in 1929.
Life after professional athletics was exciting for Thorpe. He worked as an extra in movies, served as superintendent of recreation in the Chicago Park System and was also quite vocal with matters of Indian affairs. He also had stints as a public speaker/lecturer and even led an all-Indian song and dance troupe entitled "The Jim Thorpe Show." The Merchant Marines even had the honor of Thorpe's presence, as he served with beginning at age 58.
Two monumental honors were bestowed unto Thorpe in 1950 when he was named "the greatest American football player" and the "greatest overall male athlete" by the Associated Press.
Thorpe died on March 28, 1953 of a heart attack. The New York Times ran a front page story, remembering the athlete, stating that Thorpe "was a magnificent performer. He had all the strength, speed and coordination of the finest players, plus an incredible stamina. The tragedy of the loss of his Stockholm medals because of thoughtless and unimportant professionalism darkened much of his career and should have been rectified long ago. His memory should be kept for what it deserves--that of the greatest all-round athlete of our time." Thorpe's medals were finally restored to him posthumously in 1982. In addition, and most importantly to his family, his name was put back into the record books.
Thorpe had married three times and was blessed with eight children. In 1913, he married Iva Miller. Their first son, James Jr., died at age three from an influenza epidemic during World War I but their three daughters, Gail, Charlotte, and Grace, lived into the 1990s. He married Freeda Kirkpatrick in 1926 and they had four sons, Carl Phillip (deceased), William, Richard, and John (Jack). Jack Thorpe, the youngest, became principal chief of the Sauk and Fox in the 1980s. At the time of his death, Thorpe had been married to Patricia Askew for almost eight years.
In 1950, the nation's press selected Jim Thorpe as the most outstanding athlete of the first half of the 20th Century and in 1996-2001, he was awarded ABC's Wide World of Sports Athlete of the Century.
i am familiar with the jim thorpe story............
bolt
nadal, federer, joko
messi & ronoldo
bolt
nadal, federer, joko
messi & ronoldo
Don Bradman's batting figures were off the chart in his day and even by today's standards. I doubt there is anyone near him in any other sport.
Some notable mentions but they ain't no Phil Taylor. 
As usual it's down to your definition of 'greatness'
For sheer longevity at the top in a very physically demanding profession - McCoy
For peaking (not just at The Olympics but also within a season to consistently win his place in the boat) - Redgrave
For making it look easy....man against boys - Tiger Woods
For sheer longevity at the top in a very physically demanding profession - McCoy
For peaking (not just at The Olympics but also within a season to consistently win his place in the boat) - Redgrave
For making it look easy....man against boys - Tiger Woods
'performer' would be Ali, obviously - Bolt of the current crop.
If we are talking Jim Thorpe style polymaths, then Max Woosnam would be my pick. Worth a google.
If we are talking Jim Thorpe style polymaths, then Max Woosnam would be my pick. Worth a google.
This would have to be a market without the late, great Arthur Jones, aka The Babylonian Teapot. No other sportsman even comes close to his achievements.
Tiger Woods not even the bet golfer,that accolade belongs to Ben Hogan.
The best sports performer for me the recently deceased Muhammed Ali.
The best sports performer for me the recently deceased Muhammed Ali.
'performer' would be Ali, obviously - Bolt of the current crop.
Messi texted and sayed Messi.
Messi texted and sayed Messi.
For dominance in a sport, there is nobody close to Heather McKay.
Ed Moses - dominated for ten years
over 120 races in a row. no pulled muscles.
so casual.
Marvin Haglar - retired after a dubious decision
i was a sugar ray fan but thought he lost
or drew at best. but Haglar did the smart
thing and retired.
Emil Zátopek - sheer effort of this guy.
running in army boots in the deep snow
in training - same day as race.
wins 5,000. 10,000 and Marathon in 1952
olympics.
Ali - Although fighting record is flawed,
He had a too casual way of dealing with
his opponents - fought one fight with a broken
jaw. Proper boxer that analyzed all his opponents
style. got in their heads before fights.
He invented so much in boxing.
over 120 races in a row. no pulled muscles.
so casual.
Marvin Haglar - retired after a dubious decision
i was a sugar ray fan but thought he lost
or drew at best. but Haglar did the smart
thing and retired.
Emil Zátopek - sheer effort of this guy.
running in army boots in the deep snow
in training - same day as race.
wins 5,000. 10,000 and Marathon in 1952
olympics.
Ali - Although fighting record is flawed,
He had a too casual way of dealing with
his opponents - fought one fight with a broken
jaw. Proper boxer that analyzed all his opponents
style. got in their heads before fights.
He invented so much in boxing.
McCoy wouldn't even be top 20.
The vast majority of his wins were on horses 90% of jockeys would win on. Racing is more about the horse as f1 is more about the car. McCoy was also a serial cheat when racing for the green and gold connections until Cheltenham. Plus his competition was only UK and Irish based not world.
Federer must be up there.
The vast majority of his wins were on horses 90% of jockeys would win on. Racing is more about the horse as f1 is more about the car. McCoy was also a serial cheat when racing for the green and gold connections until Cheltenham. Plus his competition was only UK and Irish based not world.
Federer must be up there.
Arkle. At 212, his Timeform rating is the highest ever awarded to a steeplechaser.
Gallivanter
Joined: 10 Mar 08
Replies: 2801
23 Jul 16 16:48
Arkle. At 212, his Timeform rating is the highest ever awarded to a steeplechaser.
Mmm - and Flyingbolt was the second greatest and Golden Miller the third greatest based on ratings.
Imagine that eh? 200-plus years of racing and the 'greatest' three racehorses all came along at the same time?
Joined: 10 Mar 08
Replies: 2801
23 Jul 16 16:48
Arkle. At 212, his Timeform rating is the highest ever awarded to a steeplechaser.
Mmm - and Flyingbolt was the second greatest and Golden Miller the third greatest based on ratings.
Imagine that eh? 200-plus years of racing and the 'greatest' three racehorses all came along at the same time?
Jesse Owens - (dominated in a sea of hostility and no PED in athletics then - did you know his real name was actually J C Owens?
Marvellous Marvin Hagler - only ever fought the very best and never once hit the canvas. Head like concrete and brutal close fighter. Responsible for the best ever round of boxing in the 1st v Hearns.
Tiger Woods - bar injuries would surely have won the most ever majors. Played in more competitive fields than Nicklaus who only had half a dozen big names to beat.
Maradonna - quite simply the best footballer I have ever seen. Carried the Argies to the WC almost single handedly. Scored the WC greatest ever goal and turned Napoli into a force and their 1st ever Serie A.
Donald Bradman - broke all cricket records and unquestionably the greatest player to ever hold a bat.
Marvellous Marvin Hagler - only ever fought the very best and never once hit the canvas. Head like concrete and brutal close fighter. Responsible for the best ever round of boxing in the 1st v Hearns.
Tiger Woods - bar injuries would surely have won the most ever majors. Played in more competitive fields than Nicklaus who only had half a dozen big names to beat.
Maradonna - quite simply the best footballer I have ever seen. Carried the Argies to the WC almost single handedly. Scored the WC greatest ever goal and turned Napoli into a force and their 1st ever Serie A.
Donald Bradman - broke all cricket records and unquestionably the greatest player to ever hold a bat.
Maradonna - quite simply the best footballer I have ever seen.
How often have you read his name?
How often have you read his name?
Jesse Owens - (dominated in a sea of hostility and no PED in athletics then - did you know his real name was actually J C Owens?
For the record, his real name was actually James Cleveland Owens
For the record, his real name was actually James Cleveland Owens
Alf Tupper - the Tough Of The Track
used to weld on a sat morning on overtime, have fish n chips for his dinner, then break a world record in the afternoon in the 200 metres......a boyhood hero
used to weld on a sat morning on overtime, have fish n chips for his dinner, then break a world record in the afternoon in the 200 metres......a boyhood hero
He sure would be up there along with Hot Shot Hamish 
Bo Jackson. Some of the things he could do looked inhuman.
rogerthebutler 23 Jul 16 18:08
Mmm - and Flyingbolt was the second greatest and Golden Miller the third greatest based on ratings.
Imagine that eh? 200-plus years of racing and the 'greatest' three racehorses all came along at the same time?
Presumably you mean Mill House. Ratings are only as old as Timeform (1948) so the '200-plus years' isn't really fair. Sprinter Sacre is actually rated 3rd all-time, but your question is still legitimate. Is it possible that the two greatest steeplechasers ever were foaled two years apart and shared a stable lad? It seems unlikely, I'll admit, but the perfomances of both, especially in handicaps, make more recent superstars such as Kauto Star and Best Mate look like ****! Both Arkle and Flyingbolt routinely demolished fields of top class horses while conceding two stones and upwards. It's neither of the horses I mention's fault that the modern racing programme means there is little incentive, nor hardly any races, to run the best in handicaps but I'll still hold it against them! It's one of the reasons why I always preferred Denman to his more talented stablemate...
Which brings me back to your question. If we accept that the Timeform ratings are a load of Phil Bull, and Arkle's 212 and Flyinbolt' 210 are so preposterous that they should be ignored altogether, what are we left with? Well Timeform has Kauto Star as the highest rated staying chaser (tied with Mill House, as it happens) besides the big two. If we accept that, it wouldn't be a ludicrous argument that the two greatest steeplechasers of all-time (since we've DQ'd Arkle and Flyingbolt) came along at the same time and shared a stable. (For the record, Timeform has Desert Orchid, Burrough Hill Lad and Long Run(my arse!) rated higher than Denman.)
In Summary: Arkle first, Flyingbolt second, the rest (getting lumps of weight) nowhere!
Mmm - and Flyingbolt was the second greatest and Golden Miller the third greatest based on ratings.
Imagine that eh? 200-plus years of racing and the 'greatest' three racehorses all came along at the same time?
Presumably you mean Mill House. Ratings are only as old as Timeform (1948) so the '200-plus years' isn't really fair. Sprinter Sacre is actually rated 3rd all-time, but your question is still legitimate. Is it possible that the two greatest steeplechasers ever were foaled two years apart and shared a stable lad? It seems unlikely, I'll admit, but the perfomances of both, especially in handicaps, make more recent superstars such as Kauto Star and Best Mate look like ****! Both Arkle and Flyingbolt routinely demolished fields of top class horses while conceding two stones and upwards. It's neither of the horses I mention's fault that the modern racing programme means there is little incentive, nor hardly any races, to run the best in handicaps but I'll still hold it against them! It's one of the reasons why I always preferred Denman to his more talented stablemate...
Which brings me back to your question. If we accept that the Timeform ratings are a load of Phil Bull, and Arkle's 212 and Flyinbolt' 210 are so preposterous that they should be ignored altogether, what are we left with? Well Timeform has Kauto Star as the highest rated staying chaser (tied with Mill House, as it happens) besides the big two. If we accept that, it wouldn't be a ludicrous argument that the two greatest steeplechasers of all-time (since we've DQ'd Arkle and Flyingbolt) came along at the same time and shared a stable. (For the record, Timeform has Desert Orchid, Burrough Hill Lad and Long Run(my arse!) rated higher than Denman.)
In Summary: Arkle first, Flyingbolt second, the rest (getting lumps of weight) nowhere!
**** = pu$$ie$. I'm looking at you in particular, Best Mate.
Roger De Bris 25 Jul 16 01:25
Bo Jackson. Some of the things he could do looked inhuman.
Roger De Bris knows. Love me some Bo.
Throw from warning track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB9wi_zvMdM
'Time out' home run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSsJQ60q6JU
Spiderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3l_L-VJ3w
Somebody else can post that gridiron nonsense!
Bo Jackson. Some of the things he could do looked inhuman.
Roger De Bris knows. Love me some Bo.
Throw from warning track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB9wi_zvMdM
'Time out' home run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSsJQ60q6JU
Spiderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3l_L-VJ3w
Somebody else can post that gridiron nonsense!
From the excellent 30 for 30 series on ESPN.
You Don't Know Bo: The Legend of Bo Jackson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqiYJoblzC8
You Don't Know Bo: The Legend of Bo Jackson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqiYJoblzC8
Excellent posts from Mikael DHaguenet,seems I'm going to have to revise my opinion.
You'd make me blush but, WMFB, you don't know Diddley!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPxkpjCvWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPxkpjCvWI
So many great stories about Zatopek, his wikipedia page has a few of them. Amazing - nothing to do with his claims here - that he and his wife were born on the same day, I didn't know that.
One story that isn't mentioned on there was his stand-off with the ruling Czech communists, who had dropped another runner, whose father was a dissident, from the 1950 European Championships. Zatopek refused to take part unless the other chap, Stanilas Jungwirth, was reinstated. And reinstated he was.
I used to have a book about him, some great pictures of him training in snowdrifts in working boots and in his races, sure it was some Riefenstahl-style propaganda thing really.
It's hard to comprehend in this era how a man could just get up on a Saturday and decide to have a pop at the Olympic marathon when he'd never competed in one before. And win by miles.
One story that isn't mentioned on there was his stand-off with the ruling Czech communists, who had dropped another runner, whose father was a dissident, from the 1950 European Championships. Zatopek refused to take part unless the other chap, Stanilas Jungwirth, was reinstated. And reinstated he was.
I used to have a book about him, some great pictures of him training in snowdrifts in working boots and in his races, sure it was some Riefenstahl-style propaganda thing really.
It's hard to comprehend in this era how a man could just get up on a Saturday and decide to have a pop at the Olympic marathon when he'd never competed in one before. And win by miles.
She set a women's record for the 12-hour time-trial which exceeded the men's record for two years.
Cheers Mikael.
Some of the Bo highlights are unreal.
Sports Science did a Worlds Greatest Athlete analysis....no guesses for who won.
A superstar at baseball and NFL, and could have been a star at track too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KASZp_tcWA
Some of the Bo highlights are unreal.
Sports Science did a Worlds Greatest Athlete analysis....no guesses for who won.
A superstar at baseball and NFL, and could have been a star at track too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KASZp_tcWA
The best sporting moments I have seen are; probably because I was a teenager & you seem to preserve your best memories of that time
David Hemery winning Olympic Gold in 1968
Teofilio Stevenson winning the gold medal in 1968
Brazil winning the World Cup in 1970 - watching Pele who is without doubt the best footballer ever
Ali beating Foreman in 1974
Best sportsman of all time - arguably Don Bradman - nobody playing cricket will ever come close to his test record of 99.94 which is far superior to anyone else who has ever played or will ever play the game
David Hemery winning Olympic Gold in 1968
Teofilio Stevenson winning the gold medal in 1968
Brazil winning the World Cup in 1970 - watching Pele who is without doubt the best footballer ever
Ali beating Foreman in 1974
Best sportsman of all time - arguably Don Bradman - nobody playing cricket will ever come close to his test record of 99.94 which is far superior to anyone else who has ever played or will ever play the game
Maradona - as previous poster stated, scored the greatest WC goal of all-time vs Eng in the 1986 qf, single-handedly carried both Argentina and Napoli to success.
Mohammed Ali - Outstanding in the greatest era of heavyweight boxing. As much a legend for his exploits outside the ring.
Steffi Graf - the only ever tennis player to achieve the Golden Slam in 1988 - all 4 tennis Slams and Olympic Gold. Serena has now equalled her career Slams haul of 22 but people seem to forget Steffi had to retire prematurely at the age of 30 due to injury & would have won many more Slams if she had continued playing through to her mid-30s.
Frankel - greatest racehorse I have ever seen in my lifetime winning 14 from 14. Trained by the great Sir Henry Cecil towards the end of his life, a special affinity between them, making his achievements on the track feel even more magical. Just a shame the story could not have continued into Frankel's 5-y-o season - I have no doubt he would have gone on to win top 12f races like the Arc.
Mohammed Ali - Outstanding in the greatest era of heavyweight boxing. As much a legend for his exploits outside the ring.
Steffi Graf - the only ever tennis player to achieve the Golden Slam in 1988 - all 4 tennis Slams and Olympic Gold. Serena has now equalled her career Slams haul of 22 but people seem to forget Steffi had to retire prematurely at the age of 30 due to injury & would have won many more Slams if she had continued playing through to her mid-30s.
Frankel - greatest racehorse I have ever seen in my lifetime winning 14 from 14. Trained by the great Sir Henry Cecil towards the end of his life, a special affinity between them, making his achievements on the track feel even more magical. Just a shame the story could not have continued into Frankel's 5-y-o season - I have no doubt he would have gone on to win top 12f races like the Arc.
Tiger Woods? There are 633 players officially rated better than him, no way the greatest.
That honour must go to The Rock, holder of 'the most electrifying move in sports entertainment', The People's Elbow.
Imagine Steve Redgrave or Roger Federer making an explosive action film in their spare time. This fella is the real deal.
That honour must go to The Rock, holder of 'the most electrifying move in sports entertainment', The People's Elbow.
Imagine Steve Redgrave or Roger Federer making an explosive action film in their spare time. This fella is the real deal.
Don't embarrass yourself Billy. You promised to f*ck off, had an absolute shocker and are now cringeworthily still hanging around like one of Erse's more potent emissions because without Chit Chat you couldn't function and would have to interact in the real world. Go and try it, you might like it.
Alf Tupper was middle distance never ran 200m in his life
That's a shame because apart from having a basic grasp of maths and literacy equivalent to an eight year old you seem like a really nice guy.
Jim Thorpe must be in contention.
He was Daley Thomson's (who must be in with a shout of being Britain's top sportsman) number 1 pick on TalkSport's Colin Murray Show last year (or the year before).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe
"In a poll of sports fans conducted by ABC Sports, Thorpe was voted the Greatest Athlete of the Twentieth Century out of 15 other athletes including Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Jack Nicklaus, and Michael Jordan"
He was Daley Thomson's (who must be in with a shout of being Britain's top sportsman) number 1 pick on TalkSport's Colin Murray Show last year (or the year before).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe
"In a poll of sports fans conducted by ABC Sports, Thorpe was voted the Greatest Athlete of the Twentieth Century out of 15 other athletes including Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Jack Nicklaus, and Michael Jordan"
*Thompson
Delay due to this bloody computer in whirring mode again.
I detest the bleedin' thing.
Delay due to this bloody computer in whirring mode again.
I detest the bleedin' thing.
Me - I'm like superman... but I don't want to let the humans
learn that I'm among them. I prefer to observe your feeble
species through social media.[ This image is no longer available. ]
learn that I'm among them. I prefer to observe your feeble
species through social media.[ This image is no longer available. ]
Arkle and Flyingbolt ......never raced against each other , never would have either I imagine.
Kauto Star & Denman met 4 times , each time in the Gold Cup .
A lot easier to keep beating the same horses than competing the best against the best.
It is far more likely that the trainer was light years ahead of his rivals in that training era.
As for the greatest sportsman , I would go for Zatopek . His 3 Gold medals in 1952 in the longest races is an incredible feat.
With today's technology , diet , fast tracks , money ,freedom he would have been a mega mega star.
Kauto Star & Denman met 4 times , each time in the Gold Cup .
A lot easier to keep beating the same horses than competing the best against the best.
It is far more likely that the trainer was light years ahead of his rivals in that training era.
As for the greatest sportsman , I would go for Zatopek . His 3 Gold medals in 1952 in the longest races is an incredible feat.
With today's technology , diet , fast tracks , money ,freedom he would have been a mega mega star.
sixtwosix 26 Jul 16 08:22
Arkle and Flyingbolt ......never raced against each other , never would have either I imagine.
Kauto Star & Denman met 4 times , each time in the Gold Cup .
A lot easier to keep beating the same horses than competing the best against the best.
It is far more likely that the trainer was light years ahead of his rivals in that training era.
There was no need to race against each other since there was a competitive season-long racing programme in those days where they could race against the best, give them 35lbs and more and still beat them out of sight.
In those four Gold Cups, they managed to get beaten by Imperial Commander and Long Run, while winning once each of course. Timeform's ludicrous 184 rating for Long Run aside, does anybody think either of those two are among the greatest steeplechasers ever seen? Apart from you, of course.
If Dreaper was so dominant, how come he never won a Grand National? His horses, at least his superstars, were obviously ahead of the handicapper. Vincent O'Brien, who had admittedly turned his attention to the flat by then, managed to win it three years in a row with different horses. That's the kind of return I'd expect from a trainer who was 'light years ahead of his rivals.'
Arkle and Flyingbolt ......never raced against each other , never would have either I imagine.
Kauto Star & Denman met 4 times , each time in the Gold Cup .
A lot easier to keep beating the same horses than competing the best against the best.
It is far more likely that the trainer was light years ahead of his rivals in that training era.
There was no need to race against each other since there was a competitive season-long racing programme in those days where they could race against the best, give them 35lbs and more and still beat them out of sight.
In those four Gold Cups, they managed to get beaten by Imperial Commander and Long Run, while winning once each of course. Timeform's ludicrous 184 rating for Long Run aside, does anybody think either of those two are among the greatest steeplechasers ever seen? Apart from you, of course.
If Dreaper was so dominant, how come he never won a Grand National? His horses, at least his superstars, were obviously ahead of the handicapper. Vincent O'Brien, who had admittedly turned his attention to the flat by then, managed to win it three years in a row with different horses. That's the kind of return I'd expect from a trainer who was 'light years ahead of his rivals.'
Heather McKay. She lost only two matches in her entire career (in 1960 and 1962), and was unbeaten in competitive squash matches from 1962 through to 1981, when she retired from active open squash.
She won 16 consecutive British Open titles between 1962 and 1977, without losing a single set.
She won 16 consecutive British Open titles between 1962 and 1977, without losing a single set.
sixtwosix 26 Jul 16 08:22
As for the greatest sportsman , I would go for Zatopek . His 3 Gold medals in 1952 in the longest races is an incredible feat.
With today's technology , diet , fast tracks , money ,freedom he would have been a mega mega star.
Sorry, had to return to this. You use Arkle/Flyingbolt's lack of competition against them, which would be fair enough if they avoided any other horses, yet seemingly don't use the same criteria to measure Zatopek's greatness. I'm no expert on athletics but distance running, especially, seems to be dominated by Africans - every winner of the 10000m since 1980 has been African, apart from '84 winner Alberto Cova, for example. When Zatopek won in '52, he beat a field of 33. There was just one (white) African in the field. (Not a single entrant among the 45 who contested the 5000m was African - just 3 of the 66 in the marathon were African, albeit once again white South Africans.)
Sound like a lack of competition to me, although maybe his training methods were simply light years ahead of his rivals.
As for the greatest sportsman , I would go for Zatopek . His 3 Gold medals in 1952 in the longest races is an incredible feat.
With today's technology , diet , fast tracks , money ,freedom he would have been a mega mega star.
Sorry, had to return to this. You use Arkle/Flyingbolt's lack of competition against them, which would be fair enough if they avoided any other horses, yet seemingly don't use the same criteria to measure Zatopek's greatness. I'm no expert on athletics but distance running, especially, seems to be dominated by Africans - every winner of the 10000m since 1980 has been African, apart from '84 winner Alberto Cova, for example. When Zatopek won in '52, he beat a field of 33. There was just one (white) African in the field. (Not a single entrant among the 45 who contested the 5000m was African - just 3 of the 66 in the marathon were African, albeit once again white South Africans.)
Sound like a lack of competition to me, although maybe his training methods were simply light years ahead of his rivals.
his training methods were simply light years ahead of his rivals.
Of course , being in the misery and deprivation of Russian controlled Eastern Europe would have greatly aided his training.
Of course , being in the misery and deprivation of Russian controlled Eastern Europe would have greatly aided his training.
Fenway • July 26, 2016 9:11 AM BST
Heather McKay. She lost only two matches in her entire career (in 1960 and 1962), and was unbeaten in competitive squash matches from 1962 through to 1981, when she retired from active open squash.
She won 16 consecutive British Open titles between 1962 and 1977, without losing a single set.
Well said, Fenway. The British Open titles were effectively the World Championships at the time. She won one of those finals 9-0,9-0,9-0 which meant that her opponent did not win a point. It would be the equivalent of Novak Djokovic winning a Grand Slam final 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.
There is nobody who has been mentioned in this thread or will be mentioned in this thread who was as dominant as she was.
Heather McKay. She lost only two matches in her entire career (in 1960 and 1962), and was unbeaten in competitive squash matches from 1962 through to 1981, when she retired from active open squash.
She won 16 consecutive British Open titles between 1962 and 1977, without losing a single set.
Well said, Fenway. The British Open titles were effectively the World Championships at the time. She won one of those finals 9-0,9-0,9-0 which meant that her opponent did not win a point. It would be the equivalent of Novak Djokovic winning a Grand Slam final 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.
There is nobody who has been mentioned in this thread or will be mentioned in this thread who was as dominant as she was.
sixtwosix 26 Jul 16 09:54
Of course , being in the misery and deprivation of Russian controlled Eastern Europe would have greatly aided his training.
Can't tell if sarcastic or not.
Of course, being part of the Soviet bloc held back East German athletes, for example, no end.
Of course , being in the misery and deprivation of Russian controlled Eastern Europe would have greatly aided his training.
Can't tell if sarcastic or not.
Of course, being part of the Soviet bloc held back East German athletes, for example, no end.
I notice you make no attempt to address the lack of competition...
MDH, your reasoning about the lack of competition does Zatopek a disservice. It's true that the East Africans - where the power now lies of course - were yet to emerge as a force on the world stage. Abebe Bikila was the first East African to win an Olympic medal of any kind when he won the Marathon in 1960. Nobody had heard of him at the time, and he famously ran barefoot.
That said, there were some of the great names in the history of distance running competing at the time - Gaston Reiff, Alain Mimoun, Vladimir Kuts, our own Chris Chataway as well.
One can not - imo - decry Zatopek for lack of competition any more than one can question Margaret Court for not having to swat away a conveyor belt of surly looking Slavic birds with unfeasibly long legs.
That said, there were some of the great names in the history of distance running competing at the time - Gaston Reiff, Alain Mimoun, Vladimir Kuts, our own Chris Chataway as well.
One can not - imo - decry Zatopek for lack of competition any more than one can question Margaret Court for not having to swat away a conveyor belt of surly looking Slavic birds with unfeasibly long legs.
And while he would have certainly derived some benefit from being in a sinecure Army posting while he purused his career, this was not uncommon at the time in many countries. And whatever help he got from the Army, there were not colonels standing behind him forcing him to run the hundreds of kilometres a week through which he reshaped and professionalised the discipline. It was only when adding the Herculean extremes of distance training that Zatopek perfected to their natural advantages that the Kenyans and Ethiopians were able to take complete control of the sport - they had isolated winners throughout the sixties, seventies and eighties but never the clean sweeps which they routinley achieve now.
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