Evolution or evilution - nice theory if you can proove it.

"Evolutionists believe we all came from single cell organisms"
They're educated idiots mate ....
They believe ....but can never prove it !
They can play around with their primordial soup til the cows come home - and will never produce life !

Watchmaker analogy alert.

Well Evolution does work.

Darwin showed it happened. Mendel explained the theoretical basis of DNA, which we have now found.
Crick and Watson of course.
Now that is pretty solid.
We have nothing that disproves this, to date?

How life started is still a mystery, we are still open to all theories, including the chit chat ones.
I will look at that video Zorro, when I have time, my greyhound study comes first, not that it does me much good.

in all the history of bacteriology they've never observed one bacteria change into
a different bacteria.

All darwin observed was birds mating with different birds to make a new bird.

He never found intermediate species.

a species that comes between a jelly fish and a salmon? they are separate species.
Not all one species that evolved.

err
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

err
nice fantasy art work to the right.
physical evidence would be handy though.

'As Stephen Hawking has noted, "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life' wiki

change one constant, in billions of instances through time and nothing is here.

"God of the Gaps" alert.

I have not watched...so I should not comment

But Darwin theory has been proved..in one simple way

It was noticed because of our industries....a single butterfly species who used trees for camouflage, wings gradually turned black from brown to match the coal dust on the trees
Once we stopped emitting coal dust the Butterflies wings gradually changed back to brown the colour tress returned to..
It showed mutations that offer advantage in survival prosper.

There are other proofs

Now if this is shown not to be  in the world of bacteria, that would be a problem Zorro, I agree.

But a lot more would to have to be shown to disprove Darwin.
I will watch it.

explain why you find coloured pigments beautiful.? In scientific terms.
why your family matter to you. in scientific terms
do you have a soul?
would you be happy to see a dead family member again?
why do you cry at sad movies?
explain why god does not exist? in scientific terms.

"Russell's Teapot" alert.

God hid his face for two days - two thousand years.

God planned out 70 weeks for his plan of completion and gave the vision to Daniel.
the seventieth week is still to be played out.
Daniel prophecy.(922) 69 weeks (69 x7 = 483 years) and then a pause.(two thousand years).
after the 69th week the messiah will be cut off. (gap years)
After the fullness of the gentiles he will return. When the cup is full.
then Jesus uses the last week. (7 years).

Have a lie down mate !

Russells Teapot(Bertrand Russell)

He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.

I will watch that tomorrow Zorro

If you are still awake Zorro and have a telescope handy

find the teapot!

Anyway I like you Zorro...even if I cannot always agree with you.

A transitional fossil is a something that has features in common with an earlier creature , as well as other , different , features in common with a later one.

There are many examples.

Most famous being Australopithecines , from 2-4 million years ago : Features in common with earlier apes , but also different features in common with a species existing today :Humans.

how much proof would you want?

it's about faith.

Do you think you are an idiot or a fool if you believe in God?
Blaise Pascal (pascal computing language named after him)
spent his life in scientific studies.
He wrote books to explain why god exists. Why you must believe.
It's a simple gamble he said. You die and win. Or you die and lose.

a book exists in this world and every year it out sells every other book.
the booksellers no longer lists that book in the top ten best seller lists
because it's number one every year.
if you have a copy start reading. It has proofs in the form of prophecy.
For instance Daniel who was five hundred years before Jesus has a vision of
the coming messiah and his seventy weeks. you do the arithmetic and you see
that lands in Jerusalem in AD33. Jesus enters Jerusalem and three days later
is killed.

Analyze what just happened - if i said to you 500 years from now a man will
enter Jerusalem and will change the world.
he will be cut off.the city and temple will be destroyed by a powerful ruler.
9:24 - 7x70 years to free the people from sin and evil,eternal justice being
established.
WHO is he describing - who fits the bill.

then who can make that happen? who could be trained to do all that? AND
change the world - THE ROMAN EMPIRE was brutal. Yet it crumbled away because
of this rabbi. Some Rabbi blood was spilled and it's floated around the globe.
His blood has reached every man and you can accept a gift or slap it away.
It's free choice.

Jesus isn't asking for donations or for bums on seats in a big hall.
I don't go to any services. Except the odd funeral.
You talk to him and he talks to you. Not in actual voice, but through
your life. Only the self righteous don't need him. the spirit of Satan is Pride.
i don't need help I'm a self made man. Nobody helped me. Pride cometh before a fall.

transitional fossils -

lets see - Dogs

you could go dig up all the dogs that died in the past 100 years
you would see all the varieties and changes that went through
the various stages. But were are the dogs with wings. Let's face it
we've been actively breeding attributes into the Wolf's Genes.
but essentially they're still dogs.
Each generation that have come from the wolf is worse. They die younger
through the tampering or their hips become brittle. They have breathing
problems like in the pugs - or they can't walk like the dash hound.

bite force of dogs -
The Rottweilers were the strongest and topped with 328 pounds of bite pressure. German Shepherds came in second with a 238 measured bite force, and the American Pit Bull Terrier came in third with 235 pounds of pressure.

How does that measure compared to cousins in the wild?

Dogs are at a disadvantage.  A wolf’s normal bite force is around 400 pounds. If it is protecting itself, a large wolf can bite down with over 1,200 pounds of pressure.

Zorro....you should be looking for that teapot...not posting on here

i love chocolate... i should be looking
for chocolate teapots.

Humans breeding dogs is the opposite of natural selection

Jul 20, 2016 -- 2:32AM, zorrostrikes wrote:

transitional fossils -lets see - Dogsyou could go dig up all the dogs that died in the past 100 yearsyou would see all the varieties and changes that went through the various stages. But were are the dogs with wings. Let's face itwe've been actively breeding attributes into the Wolf's Genes. but essentially they're still dogs.Each generation that have come from the wolf is worse. They die youngerthrough the tampering or their hips become brittle. They have breathingproblems like in the pugs - or they can't walk like the dash hound.bite force of dogs -The Rottweilers were the strongest and topped with 328 pounds of bite pressure. German Shepherds came in second with a 238 measured bite force, and the American Pit Bull Terrier came in third with 235 pounds of pressure.How does that measure compared to cousins in the wild?Dogs are at a disadvantage.  A wolf’s normal bite force is around 400 pounds. If it is protecting itself, a large wolf can bite down with over 1,200 pounds of pressure.

yes ,Zorro appears to not understand evolution correctly (many do not) or is deliberately  barking up the wrong tree ,dogs bred by humans to do a job have been better than natural selection imo ,greyhounds for example ,only the fastest have been selected but many breeds of dogs have suffered ireversible damage ,the KC have done for many but the OP is wrong to even think man has not produced a better hunting and killing machines than the wolf ,the wolf is built more for endurance survival than any dog i can think of .

genome study has changed the origins of the dog anyway and still much work to be done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

*changed the learned origins of the dog

All scientific information is based upon the "best information" or opinion available at any given time !
As we learn more ...opinions/facts can radically change.

zorrostrikes - do you actually place any bets on betfair?  I suppose you don't really have time when you are trawling the internet looking for utter sh1te and reposting it here.

maybe he has cast his rod and hoping to hook that teapot he has spotted

Hi zorro, from your description I think I've seen that video. (I watch a lot of esoteric stuff on youtube.)

I'm about 99.9% convinced that evolution explains the biodiversity we see on earth. I would put it like this. If, say, God created all the different species all those years ago, why give life DNA which varies each with each generation and can therefore drift towards making survival a better possibility if you know what I mean. we see it in humans, theres been variation since Adma & Eve, most obviously skin and hair color variation giving more chance of survival depending on climate.

Anyway, to somewhat counteract what I just said, there's a high probability that our universe is in fact a simulation. Think of it like a more advanced form of The Sims computer game. If we had the technology we would simulate our universe, including life. We already doing that to an extent with the facility at CERN, which crashes particles together at high speed to sim the early universe. God could be the people simming their own universe and it's us! Evolution could be part of the sim though.

Good post get me a drink.

there's a high probability that our universe is in fact a simulation

Can't see how you can know that. I would say there is a possibility, no more no less.

Interesting your last paragraph Get me a drink. That thought has occurred that maybe we are all part of a simulation.

Why and by who, I doubt we will ever know that.

The key be Quantum Physics here, it appears at the level of the very small, things do not behave the same is in our normal universe.

So is the the base of the simulation. Things are only there if we observe them?, totally counterintuitive.

Still understanding Quantum Physics is still on my bucket list, not sure I will ever get round to that

is this the base of the simulation

Einstein a man who made a great effort to understand our Universe. But he could never accept Quantum Physics?

But it works, there is no doubt about that, it is used.

So if we are in a simulation, this could be one of the signs.

Even in Einstein's Universe we still are baffled as to why the expansion of our Universe is speeding not slowing as one would expect?

I would not say it is a high probability our universe is a simulation myself, but I think it is a possibility

amongst others?

If our universe is a simulation then the "creator" would need to be outside our universe at least initially as "he/she/it" would predate the universe.
This means that a multiverse is at least as probable as a simulator and perhaps more probable.
This is far from proven although a favourite theory with some since it would "explain" the fine tuning of this universe which was very validly pointed out earlier in this thread by Zorro.

*The multiverse is far from proven...

(Just to be clear)

ebul and foinavon

OK, for arguments sake, lets say our universe is a simulation that God started, ie a sim of his own universe. Then lets say, during that sim we (or other life form in the universe) get to a level that we can now sim our universe. That would be a sim of a sim. Following this logic through, the prob of us being in a 'real' universe diminishes very quickly as simulated universes increase exponentially. That's why I say it's a high probability that we're in a sim.

There's a youtube video where a scientist explains it much better than I can but I haven't got time to search it out right now.

The multiverse universe I think is more the consensus than the simulation model at the moment.

Though not yet proven as you say Foinavon.

Your last post is making my brain hurt get me a drink.

I shall take a break.

If the initial sim exists then your logic holds (I think) but it all depends on the probability of the initial sim.

There is also the Occam's Razor argument that you have to invent a universe with an advanced civilisation in order to write the sim and that's an unnecessary complication.

Jul 20, 2016 -- 1:06PM, ebulGery wrote:

I would not say it is a high probability our universe is a simulation myself, but I think it is a possibilityamongst others?

If a simulation is possible, it is virtually certain that we are actually part of a simulation.

similarly, if a god exists then it is virtually certain there is a googolplex of them.

Off for a while but will look in again later.

Nice tangent - simulation thread now.

did anyone watch the youtube clip.

going through the old theory of Darwin.
which has some good points but loses in
its entirety - science has moved on since
1890. Darwin did not create evolution.
It's a theory that many scientist before and
after have contributed to, expanding over
the years. Some of the earlier contributors
to Evolution theory pre Darwin were religious
scientists. Some were priest and ministers.

look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought

Darwins theories are taken up and pushed along by rich men who
need to kill god. If god exists then they are screwed. You can't
serve two masters. Look into the history of evolutionary theory
literature and you see its sponsors.

There are wide varieties of life. there is a wide range of complexity
within each species. But a bat is not a bird and never will be.
A midget is a man and not a separate species and is not less evolved than
an elite athlete. visible differences does not mean different species.
It's not adaption. it's variation.

Your a trier

Wide varieties yes but wide range of complexity no ,not really ,all using a  basic building block imo ,and if they find life elsewhere it will be along the same lines and will have evolved from similar building block imo .

Elite athelete ....hmmm a dont think so ,more chemical than anything else imo

look for the oldest fossil remains and look for the oldest rock structures ,life did not take too long to show up .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D69hGvCsWgA

As long as those within a dimension or universe dont experience others outside of it a simulation is the same as a 'real' one.

If the 'code' defines an extremely long probability of something occurring it doesn't actually make it more unlikely, it simply suggests the amount of time until it occurs is greater.

A microscopic, see-through water flea is the most complex creature ever studied, genomically speaking. Daphnia pulex is the first crustacean to ever have its genome sequenced, and it turns out it has about 31,000 genes — 25 percent more than we humans.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-02/water-flea-genome-most-complex...

you are all very un-evolved.

nobody spotted my bad spelling error in the title.

Proove ?

yes - prove was the right word.

Oh yes we did but didn't like to say.
We are all gentlemen on chit chat (apart from a few notable exceptions and a couple of ladies)

ok Captain Mainwaring ?

Would all such errors be resolved in a computer simulation?
Or would even a cosmological sim need to be debugged?

All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;
all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled
figs from the fig tree.

Jesus Is handed a scroll in heaven with seven seals.

Maybe there's a case that Jesus is the pen, The Father is writing and what is
written on the scroll is the holy spirit.
The actual contact between the pen and the paper is reality unfolding.
Can a four dimensional world see a twelve dimensional being.

graphite on a blank sheet of paper. if you were living on the surface of the paper
in the canyons of the paper fibres and a pencil whizzed past leaving chunks of
graphite behind it would be terrifying.

Religion was written into the script by someone with a twisted sense of humour.

In the canyons of the paper the graphite would be meteorites and the pencil an asteroid.

Time for a lie down I reckon.

cani just add how satisfying it is to see Foinavon and Ebulgery citing Russell's China Teapot analogy. I've used this countless times to counter their pointless demands for evidence of God and its great to see they've finally taken that on board. Thanks Guys!

really - a chocolate tea pot?

you guys are simple to please.

what about a snowball at the centre of the sun.
that would be more scientific?

Happy to oblige fkq The burden of proof is on the claimant.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

The speed of light might not be a constant.
Many respected physicists now believe it's
been slowing down since the start of the
universe. (google it).
They have used maths to work out it's past
speeds.
2000 years ago it was 20 percent faster

Anyone who's heard of geometrical progression knows
what's coming - it hits a doubling point and goes bananas.

3000 years it was x2
3500 years it was x4
5000 years it was x10 million

it goes on a curve - So Time is perceptual. Imagine you have a dvd
player and you put the disc in the machine and watch the film at
10 million times speed then progressively slow it down. till it hits
the last bit of the film. 15 Billion years go by in 6000 years. A year being
measured by the speed of light as it is now 300,000 km/sec.

(like Rod Taylor in the time machine)

so both statements are true - the universe is 15 billion years old and six thousand
years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdTlOVTDbNU

don't agree with Hubble on the first part
but DNA info from the later part...15 minutes in.

watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEkWz6DAAOU