Songs are *hit

money

Ive long been of the belief that sound and rhythm being intrinsic to humans, from dancing around the fire to the grandiose phenomena of classical music
Hearing another experience of things in song is nothing but tedious.

you sound like the life and soul of every party

as long as its breakbeat etc #
singing....nah

Do you feel the same about poetry ?

I find it hard to understand the words which are often badly articulated and drowned by noise so most pop music passes me by too. I like music that generates emotional feelings by virtue of the sounds themselves and most pop doesn't have that appeal.

Yes facts, I find poetry supercilious BS for the most part.
Sentiment is poor to middling at best.

Foin
I believe phonetic plays a major part.
I have experienced plenty that Ive liked the sound of the voice until I understand the sentiment, at which point my interest drops like a stone.

Poetry gives me a lot of pleasure facts. It doesn't need to be chanted in a raucous voice nor drowned by drumbeat to make it palatable.

Agreed.
I also like many songs - but I need to be able to hear the lyrics. There are many beautiful songs where the words
resonate with an experience that means a lot emotionally.

I feel sorry for you dustybin.

nah dont facts

Because I have affirmation of my belief.
The fact people like the 'sound' of a voice isnt the same as to the 'sentiment' that they are saying.

My point is that the song is nothing but a contrived manipulation to garner profit.
There have been billions of souls died a death on this planet all having there own feelings.
Yet there are people attempting to sell versions of their own like no other had ever been there.
Im not sure what it says of people to be so deceived.

their

Here richly, with ridiculous display,
The Politician's corpse was laid away.
While all of his acquaintance sneered and slanged
I wept: for I had longed to see him hanged.

Hilaire Belloc

*they're  (also) soz

Its too pretentious Fion

I have the divine comedy here but I wont read it in poem form because it will take far too long

Nor will |I read the paradise lost....by Milton

The point here is if you want something clever then read philosophy.
Songs are just shanties made for the feckless.

Sorry I've been away doing something else for a while.

Yes, poetry can be lots of things including pretentious. I find here and there what to me are gems among a lot of apparent dross. Others have different preferences. The thing is the gems spark memories and thoughts and have a kind of empathy. If you haven't found that then you're missing something a little bit special.

But surely thats merely affiliation of being.
What you feel when you first heard something being recreated on rehearing it.
Thats nothing to redeem sentiment over noise, just that the sound of the sentimental noise being obviously more recognisable.

Here are another couple of lines of Belloc. I don't particularly commend him and much of his writing leaves me cold, often childish and yes pretentious. Sometimes though you see life's experiences shining through.

It was my shame, and now it is my boast,
That I have loved you rather more than most.

The structure and manipulation of verse.
The perceived sum greater than the part.

Its the art of sounding more eloquent than the actual.
Most songs dont even attempt this anyway.

There's nothing wrong with sentiment or nostalgia we all experience it from time to time even induce it with familiar things whether words music or objects. Life shouldn't always be serious or dull.

My point was that nothing is new, all has been done and is tedious.
You want a song about an emotion trace it up on a word search it has been done a million times

yet there continues the same nuances attempting to empathise with the paying public like it never happened before.

In short its all hum drum rhyming sentiment for sake of sale rather than depth of thought
Thats why its cheap and forgettable

Anyone fancy a pint?

Well yes, it's commercialism, bread and circuses, call it what you like but if people enjoy it and want to pay for it in preference to other things then all well and good as far as I'm concerned. No-one is compelled to listen if they don't want to.

Evening Roger

Well that as it maybe.
The fact something is commercial doesnt do it justice.
Im saying for all the singing over millennia what came of it?
Like I said its the cheap mans philosophy. Not too many great thinkers defer to songs ffs

Im saying it never moves anywhere.
Its the same s hit that would have been sung hundreds of years ago.
No progress.

Is philosophy any different?
Most of the main ideas were expounded by the ancient Greeks a couple of millennia ago. Doesn't prevent modern day plagiarism and embellishment. Applies to religion too.
Pop songs are blatant and barefaced exploitation of a theme but people suck it up.

But to merge the two, the opportunism of creating regurgitated tripe isnt virtuous is it?
Its going to keep on selling, whether its deemed good or bad....Im saying its pony and its been done to death.

As for philosophy itself.
We all started with nothing and with no script. To build upon something needs foundation and referring to established thought is creation itself.

Not strumming a phuckin guitar sing/talking of lost love.
Thats simply marketing.

We're more or less in agreement there.

Do you like porridge?

The oaty thing? I put up with it as a necessity rather than something I desire.

What I could never understand is value.
If value is based mostly on supply and demand and yet the vast majority of humans are daft and feckless then what does that make for the worth of an object or piece of art?

Erudition is something sort after, it doesnt exist in a hit parade nor does it get forgotten easily.
Sing something simple for the stupid.

Value is different things to different people. In monetary terms a boxing match is worth more than a course of life-saving medication. Art, like a gold bar is a recognised store of value by social convention rather than actual worth. The value of the image of the Rokeby Venus is the price of a cheap reproduction but the conventionally agreed store of value of the original painting is enormous. Monetary value is what someone is prepared to pay.

Quite.
But its like a manipulated jury of idiots en masse.

Anyway Ive served my time on the exchange for the day which Dante would have hated.
ta ta

"Now the first of December was covered with snow
and so was the turnpike from Stockbridge to Boston.
Though the Berkshires seemed dreamlike on account of that frosting,
with ten miles behind me and ten thousand more to go".

If music be the food of love,play on.

Listening to songs, singing songs, bring immeasurable pleasure to millions of people.

It would be a sadder and greyer world without songs to sing.

I've nothing against music Facts.
I'm talking about songs written about a person's experience that have been done to death.

When somebody sings a recreation of somebody else's experience, to me that superficial.

You see groups of people at sporting events singing nothing at all.
They'll chant that song 'free from desire'
'Na na na na na na na na na na'
Or
'There's no limit' in the form of absolute nonsense.

So the instinct to sing isn't driven by recreating a singular experience.

How about if you hear a tune on the radio, a woman singing of a love for a man.
It's happened to me in the past where the tune is in my head and I mumble the words in some sort of hypnotised response only to get to the part of the woman referring to the man and I stop and think 'wtf?'
Do people change the sex of the parties involved to suit the orientation of the person recreating it?

That to me shows that people just hear the collection of sounds and not the message within.

Besides, it's not as if the messages held within solve anything. Can't we just file each category under 'solved' by now since every experience has been recorded.

"the winds of march that make my heart a dancer
a telephone that rings - but who`s to answer?
oh, how the ghost of you clings
these foolish things
remind me of you"

'boys boys boys
Im looking for a goodtime
boys boys boys
get ready for my love'


so what did you do with this one?

"these old love letters
Well, i just can`t keep
cause like the gambler says
read `em and weep
and the dawn don`t rescue me no more
without your love i`m nothing at all
Like an empty hall its a lonely fall
Since you`ve been gone its a losing battle
Stampeding cattle, they rattle the walls
And the sun don`t shine anymore
And the rains fall down on my door"

to be clear.
You actually simulate somebody else's contrived experience?
How does hearing of another's experience help?

Ive just looked up how many humans have been born on this planet.
(I dont know how they have come to this figure so cant verify)

But the figure is 107,602,707,791
and these people writing songs think they are doing a service telling people like its new?

Your argument holds no water.
You may as well say the same thing about all books,newspapers etc etc, anything with words, be it fact or fiction, is written by an individual. They are relaying their experience or their imagination to the reader. Is this superficial , is this trite and superfluous because it's ' not new ' ?

music is the loveliest art. Purely rational beings will never appreciate it, but they are the ones it would most deeply benefit...in the moments when they do listen to it...if they had the facility to understand it and appreciate it. like everything not everyone does.

Much fiction I believe is superfluous yes, ones where stories lack moral teaching especially.
Non fiction less so since they are factual or close to factual accounts.
If a song is being factual account of events (which they seldom are) then they are relevant to the songwriter only.
Somebody else might have had a similar experience but again thats a personal one so why would another wish to hear of it?

History would constitute the collection of events that are relevant to the collective, not running accounts of individual's feelings so imo those are more relevant and hold basis.

Im essentially saying the vast majority hear the tune and the sound of the verse, they dont instinctively (in my opinion) deconstruct the message within, and even when people do, its a second hand irrelevant experience.

....there are rare occasions ofc where songs have messages like folk songs etc.
Some are clever almost proverbs.
But they are rare, the vast majority is just popular twaddle regurgitated filth sold to the masses who should by now know better.

A question for you Facts;

If theres any sincerity in the manufacture of songs then why does Eric Clapton's 'Tears in heaven' have a price tag on it?

"strange how potent cheap music is"