ReaseHeath, Introspection is perhaps the greatest human developments, God this is getting too deep, dare I chance a drink with my meds, .................the answer is YESSS.

Cheers boxing!

I've already voted Leave btw.
Applied for postal vote as expected to be away on the 23rd.

Where you going aka, if you don't mind me asking.

the mirror slams Boris





http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dont-believe-con-man-boris-8152782

Sturgeon, master of disguise, has put a pink beret and a funny accent on and appeared on question time.

The latest opinion polls say that even if the vote to leave wins there is no appetite for a second referendum no matter how Scotland votes in the ER.

better together NO side said voting YES would put Scotland out EU

Well it would have xmoney. I don't see the issue here.
The YES campaigners were stating that it would be automatic but the NO camp merely pointed out that Scotland would need to reapply.
If you remember Salmond based his argument on legal advice the SNP had sought and bought. This turned out not to be true.

true

Thought the remain side were very poor last night. Angela Eagle looked like she'd won a raffle to appear. Had about half a dozen scripted lines but went to bits when put on the spot. Sturgeon was also guilty of just repeating points and holding back. I have a sense that the other parties are quite happy to take a back seat and watch the Conservatives pull themselves apart over this.

As for the brexiters I thought Boris handled himself pretty well. Can certainly see his appeal to some. Was a bit put off by the woman with the rictus grin constantly staring down the camera. Half expected her to come crawling through the screen.


The thing about this whole referendum I think is that it's not actually that important. I do think on the whole we'll be worse off if we leave (especially so with the current corrupt, self-serving, asset-stripping shower in control at Westminster) but I think the difference between being in or out isn't actually that stark. But then, further to that, I'm not remotely bothered about us adopting European laws as we've voted for the overwhelming majority of them anyway (again, a much bigger majority than I'd probably have supported from a Tory govt), and I really don't buy into the idea that immigration is a big deal. Jack Dee's programme the other night covered it well. Britain is not a country of white people, only speaking English, getting garish tattoos on sunburnt arms and getting leathered every friday night. We come in all shapes and sizes and that's a good thing. It's to be embraced, not feared.

There has also been warfare and violence in parts of the world. Fact is though, that the vast majority of people don't want it and - like the recent Syrian refugees - will look to escape it with their and their childrens' lives intact. The idea that these people will somehow be more prone to violence than any other person is of course nonsense.

As I said above, Britain now isn't an all white, GSTQ-singing, Foster's-swilling society and hasn't been for a long time. We've had many immigrants from Ireland, Africa, Asia and the Middle East who have integrated into society and are now several generations in. I remember the same arguments back in the 70s and 80s based on similar levels of ignorance. I was in London earlier this week and walking along I was keeping an ear open for how many different accents and languages I overheard and there were loads. And, personally, I like it. What's the problem?

As for us being despised, I don't buy it. ISIS last summer were banking on a Europe-wide backlash against the immigrant crisis in the hope that it would radicalise some of the refugees in time against those nasty, selfish westerners. It backfired on them though with the reaction overwhelmingly positive (at least until it had died down and some govts reverted to close-mindedness).

gah! always not also in the first sentence.

Some good points there PoP

Personally any whiff of 'Blood and Soil' nationalism regarding immigration leaves me cold, despairing even. Despite a gobby minority bringing themselves off every time 'Britain First' puts out another (non-context) video, most Britons are decent, fair-minded people willing to give a fellow human being an even break, until that person proves to be a pr1ck.

Anyone wanting to come here, work hard, pay taxes, obey our laws, contribute to our economy doing work we need doing (not merely that they will do cheaper than anyone else), accept our largely Judeo-Christian belief system and democratic processes underpinned by tolerance of all religions (including their own) is fine by me and I've got more time and more in common with them than any bone-idle white person who can trace their ancestry back to William The Conqueror.

What's the problem if people want to offer lower prices for the same job? What does it matter where they come from? Should I be forced to pay more for someone because he's British. Maybe more again if he's from my town and more on top if we share a postcode. Don't get it.

I have a friend who's a truck driver who's been suckered into supporting brexit. Essentially, he's seen his pay and conditions slowly deteriorate as the supply of truck drivers has increased. Now I see his point. But at the same time, he's turning his ire on the wrong target. If you want to blame someone blame the companies now treating their staff like dirt knowing they'll be easily replaced. If I was in a mean mood I'd bring up that line about losing your job to someone with no contacts, who doesn't speak the language etc. In other areas people have lost jobs due to increased technology, through companies moving abroad for tax purposes or because a clumsy or corrupt board have taken the p!ss.

Apart from that I agree. We are a tolerant, democratic, atheist/Christian country that doesn't really care which god you may pray to. If that sounds good to a foreigner then fine. If not, then maybe they should look somewhere else.

Of course if citizenship is given away too freely then no one has any duty or responsibility to the country of birth or any of his fellow citizens.
There will be no obligation to pay tax or should there be a time of crisis no sense of duty, or a feeling of responsibility.

And that can all be packaged up nicely and laid at the feet of those immigrants!


Maybe we should all be rising up against the corporations looking to move offshore, to pay sub-minimum wage, zero hour contracts, to care only about the dividend and their own directors' bonuses and to the government asleep at the wheel (or with their fingers in the till) while all this is going on. Maybe we should question the wisdom of attaching a cost to university degrees so most students are leaving uni with tens of thousands of pounds of debt if they want a qualification.


Back in 2006ish I'd met my future wife and took a GCSE to learn Italian, her language. I carried this on, eventually doing both years of the A-level course at the night school. For each year the cost was around £100-£120. We then moved abroad for a bit and I remember reading a bit of a stink as the new chief exec/principal's salary was something stupid like £140,000 but thought little of it. We came back in 2013 and I looked into doing a Maths A-level with a view to following it up with a degree. Imagine my surprise when I was quoted over £800 for the first year's course. £800. Seeing as I was out of work at the time I simply couldn't afford it and had to quit the whole idea.
But somehow, we've managed to create this new normality where essentially school headmasters are comfortably earning six figures and the cost of education is ridiculously prohibitive to a large section of society.

I know I've gone off on a bit of a tangent, but I think it just illustrates that we've got our targets mixed up. Blame the game, not the pawns.

I'm not sure if that is a reply to my post or not because it's totally irrelevant to it if it is.

"I have a friend who's a truck driver who's been suckered into supporting brexit"  Jesus that is a mind numbingly arrogant statement. So a Truck driver who has seen his take home pay decrease year on year for the last 17 years is a sucker for realising the blatently obvious fact that cheap FOREIGN labour allied to human greed, has allowed this to happen, also degrading any possibility of of uniting fellow truckers to resist or fight this, because the EAST EUROPEANS are too great in numbers, for any resistance to have a meaningful result. Is everyone who does not hold your opinion on remaining a sucker???

Are you aware that Polish workers in particular have risen through the ranks to control employment in large swathes of the midlands, and other guys don't even get to apply. Take a look at any trucking hub,( Magna park for example) and look at the wages on offer, these guys get up at 4 in the morning to drive artics for £9.50 an hour. so you can buy your cheap goods, while smugly posting **** on here.

the Poles have decimated the Swedish haulage industry. The Swedes implemented their own rules to try and help their workers but the Poles have set up massive hubs in Denmark on the Swedish border that bypasses the regulations.