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I have an aunt in her 80's who had her loft insulated several years ago, and again a couple of years ago with thicker insulation.
She now has a firm (reputable) who will do further insulation, but this time doing the sloping walls which weren't done before. It won't cost her anything.
She gets the odd draft downstairs but nothing too uncomfortable.
Heat rises, and the insulation will stop the heat escaping through the roof, but as she hardly ever goes in her attic I don't see any point. The heat's not going to come back downstairs is it? Or will it circulate throughout the house?
I've suggested she doesn't bother but said I will investigate further as I'm no Barry Bucknell.
Please don't take her age into account.
She now has a firm (reputable) who will do further insulation, but this time doing the sloping walls which weren't done before. It won't cost her anything.
She gets the odd draft downstairs but nothing too uncomfortable.
Heat rises, and the insulation will stop the heat escaping through the roof, but as she hardly ever goes in her attic I don't see any point. The heat's not going to come back downstairs is it? Or will it circulate throughout the house?
I've suggested she doesn't bother but said I will investigate further as I'm no Barry Bucknell.
Please don't take her age into account.
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the point is the heat is not escaping/leaking and so she'll not need to heat the house so much.
good thread btw
good thread btw
lol, it's brilliant isn't it! She doesn't heat upstairs, apart from the small bathroom. But if the heat is not escaping from the attic, which I see, it would have to travel back down to the ground floor living area to make a difference to her, would it not, and as heat only rises it can't? Sorry if I appear as thick as a whale omlette.
Heat rises. Everyone knows that, right? It's absolutely true. Heat does rise. The problem is that sometimes people say this as if the flow of heat is driven by its wanting to rise. It's not. Heat can move up, down, or sideways, depending on the situation. What the laws of thermodynamics tell us is that heat moves from areas of higher temperature to areas of lower temperature. Put a torch to the top of a steel pole, and heat will travel downward by conduction. So, temperature difference is really what drives heat to move in any given direction.
Ah, that might explain it.
Lost my ittalics.
Ah, that might explain it.
Lost my ittalics.
Actually it does want to rise if it's a gas that can move, which is why the ceiling air will probably be warmer than the floor and you see smoke shoot up above anything burning or hot like a radiator, and hot air balloons work. You can't compare a gas to a block of metal, you're right about the pole. I'd think it'll form a temperature gradient in the house if the air's not really moving.
To me it sounds a bit like the law of diminishing returns especially if she's already got the thick stuff (which is really thick these days) but if it's free and they won't wreck her house or rob her though..
To me it sounds a bit like the law of diminishing returns especially if she's already got the thick stuff (which is really thick these days) but if it's free and they won't wreck her house or rob her though..
Thanks for that JC. They won't rob her, it's government funding so they're keen to land the job even though it won't cost her anything.
Well that's what I was thinking, they get paid so even if it cuts 10p off her annual bill they might want to do it.
Will it be a lot of hassle and grief for her for little in return?
I think you do one or the other, I'm not sure about having both done.
Will it be a lot of hassle and grief for her for little in return?
I think you do one or the other, I'm not sure about having both done.
I used to be in the open air insulation business but I didn't last long...it was a ruthless industry.
I would think you'd only insulate a pitched loft roof if it was converted to a living area. If you've got a 10 inch rockwool "lid" on top of the bedroom ceilings you won't be losing much heat.
Years ago I put that 2" white polystyrene sheets between the attic floors joists and on top of that put fibreglass rolls.
And I also put "2 polystyrene sheets between the roof joists. The attic looks like an igloo.
Both were done around the same time (in the spring) so I can't compare them for improvement.
My mother sold her semi-detached and moved into a bungalow. I put fibreglass rolls in her attic when she was away for a week.
That did make a big difference probably because the roof (and the insulation) was just above her.
She sat close to the fire in an armchair. When I visited I sat on the couch and it was freezing (pre-insulation). After insulation it was comfortable.
And I also put "2 polystyrene sheets between the roof joists. The attic looks like an igloo.
Both were done around the same time (in the spring) so I can't compare them for improvement.
My mother sold her semi-detached and moved into a bungalow. I put fibreglass rolls in her attic when she was away for a week.
That did make a big difference probably because the roof (and the insulation) was just above her.
She sat close to the fire in an armchair. When I visited I sat on the couch and it was freezing (pre-insulation). After insulation it was comfortable.
Mar 22, 2016 -- 4:44PM, Crisp77 wrote:
I used to be in the open air insulation business but I didn't last long...it was a ruthless industry.
Best thing I ever did to this house was removing the loft insulation. Bedroom nice and cool in summer, since the heat rises into the attic, as it's supposed to. It's like a furnace up there in the loft in the summer, so any winter dampness gets thoroughly dried.
The roof joists and the insulation had been soaking wet with condensation and mould thanks to the insulation. The house feels no colder now in the winter, since the heat is no longer being wicked away via the damp ceiling.
The roof joists and the insulation had been soaking wet with condensation and mould thanks to the insulation. The house feels no colder now in the winter, since the heat is no longer being wicked away via the damp ceiling.
Thanks for the replies, guys. I think I'll advise her not to bother, but on the other hand won't be much upsat, maybe an hour to install.
I agree with Saddo.
I've seen it on the telly where they spray it on between the rafters, I don't think that leaves an airflow though?
I've seen it on the telly where they spray it on between the rafters, I don't think that leaves an airflow though?
Insulation is a tricky business as it can cause damp in the home, even if it is free.
Jeff Howell who writes for the Telegraph is very good on the subject and on other building work. He has written books and he has a website at askjeff.co.uk
Jeff Howell who writes for the Telegraph is very good on the subject and on other building work. He has written books and he has a website at askjeff.co.uk
If you have damp a PIV system in the loft should cure it.
You lost apparently 25% of heat worst case through roof, so if it's already got the mega insulation??
I've lived in enough old houses I was able to buy cheaply owing to the problems listed here to vouch for every word being true:
Loft Insulation Causes Condensation and Rots your Roof Timbers!
This is another major problem which is starting to affect more homes, as the Government Word gets around, and our nasty insulation companies are promoting free insulation, paid for by the taxpayer. DO YOUR RESEARCH - check the claims the insulation companies make. Research their websites - look for the negatives, the problems - dont just read the "Thank You - our house is nice and warm now" letters that clients send the next day before the damage sets in.. It's all very simple. Trap heat into the house with loft insulation. The house gets warmer, and more moisture is absorbed into the air in the house. This warm moist air rises. It is not totally stopped just by a load of insulation - it eventually makes its way, loaded with moisture, into what is now a very cold loft space. Whoopee! All that nice warm, moist air then condenses all over the bottom of your roof tiles, and runs down the felting. If you've got that horrible black bitumen based felt - condensation just LOVES the stuff - it runs down, drips everywhere, and more importantly SOAKS the roof timbers themselves - so that especially in winter, you get mould, fungus, and rotting timbers. I often do surveys nowadays in which I find rotting and mouldy roof timbers as a direct result of loft insulation being installed. There is nothing wrong with loft insulation as a concept - BUT - the roof space needs to be well ventilated to take account of the increased humidity - airflow needs to be increased dramatically to stop condensation damaging the structural timbers. If you have very modern felt - the monarfil type, which is breathable, the problems will be less - but loft insulation tends to be sold into older homes, which by their very nature have older, bitumen based felt which can't breathe.
http://www.heritage-house.org/insulation-causes-damp.html
Loft Insulation Causes Condensation and Rots your Roof Timbers!
This is another major problem which is starting to affect more homes, as the Government Word gets around, and our nasty insulation companies are promoting free insulation, paid for by the taxpayer. DO YOUR RESEARCH - check the claims the insulation companies make. Research their websites - look for the negatives, the problems - dont just read the "Thank You - our house is nice and warm now" letters that clients send the next day before the damage sets in.. It's all very simple. Trap heat into the house with loft insulation. The house gets warmer, and more moisture is absorbed into the air in the house. This warm moist air rises. It is not totally stopped just by a load of insulation - it eventually makes its way, loaded with moisture, into what is now a very cold loft space. Whoopee! All that nice warm, moist air then condenses all over the bottom of your roof tiles, and runs down the felting. If you've got that horrible black bitumen based felt - condensation just LOVES the stuff - it runs down, drips everywhere, and more importantly SOAKS the roof timbers themselves - so that especially in winter, you get mould, fungus, and rotting timbers. I often do surveys nowadays in which I find rotting and mouldy roof timbers as a direct result of loft insulation being installed. There is nothing wrong with loft insulation as a concept - BUT - the roof space needs to be well ventilated to take account of the increased humidity - airflow needs to be increased dramatically to stop condensation damaging the structural timbers. If you have very modern felt - the monarfil type, which is breathable, the problems will be less - but loft insulation tends to be sold into older homes, which by their very nature have older, bitumen based felt which can't breathe.
http://www.heritage-house.org/insulation-causes-damp.html
I think something has been lost here:
If she is happy and does not feel cold or have an obvious problem - why do something which will cost the country a pretty penny?
Does anyone have a social conscience anymore?
(Rhetorical)
If she is happy and does not feel cold or have an obvious problem - why do something which will cost the country a pretty penny?
Does anyone have a social conscience anymore?
(Rhetorical)
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