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Looking back do you think we should have agreed terms with hitler
Looking back do you think we should have agreed terms with hitler
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Don't know why you are bringign up JApan and nukes to me, I've not even touched the subject.
And we've went through the whole "weren't the russians great" thing to do with forum communist b***-end Alias, and I'm not up for it again. Suffice to say they carved up Poland with Hitler pre war, invaded poland starting a second front themselves (convieniently forgotten), were Hitlers allies and gave Britain precisely zero assistance until Hitler attacked them, and were a bucnh of murdering r*ping savages when they swept across and occupied Europe. They were in no way the good guys, quite the opposite. **** Russia under Stalin. |
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A great people the Poles treated abominably.
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Oh and I forgot Russia also aggressively invaded the baltic states and tried to do over Finland as well as their invasion of Eastern poland. A great bunch of guys.
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I've sent ye a pm; MM ..
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JC Your problem is that you are so obsessed with your right wing views and anti socialist bias that you talk shyte. I am not a Stalin apologist, like you are a Hitler apologist. They were both nutters, with Stalin beating him on points. The fact remains, if it wasn't for the Russians, Hitler would have won the war. Churchill knew this, that is why he jumped into bed with them. If you can't see that, there is no point in debating the matter. The Poles were treated abysmally by everybody, before and after the war, like EO says.
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Ok g2d
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A great people that is,!!!.
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The Nígger of the Narcissus should be made into a film..
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" I am not a Stalin apologist, like you are a Hitler apologist. "
Where is that utter sh*te coming from. Are you alias in disguise? I'm not even right wing, I'm a liberal. I utterly despise Hitler and the nazis, I've always said so. I've the first reply in this very ****ing thread saying categorically that we should never cut a deal with that scumbag, what does that tell you? If you think I'm a nazi because forum troll Alias said so, is this your first day on the internet? |
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g2d.
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Poland is largely irrelevant to the question of whether Britain should have done a deal with Hitler.
The optimum time for an understanding between Britain and Germany was between July 1940 and June 1941. Neither country seemed to have a realistic way of finally defeating the other . Both had other things they could use their armed forces for . Hitler offered peace in July '40 , Churchill rejected this . Ever since the propaganda of Churchill and his supporters was to emphasise that Britain had to fight the Nazi or surrender to them . That there was a 3rd option is inconvenient to the established narrative of Britain's role in WWII. Hitler's trustworthiness , or lack of , is not relevant . The Nazi-Soviet Pact was founded on mutual convenience for the forseeable future , not trust . A Nazi-UK pact would have been the same , and probably more viable long term. |
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Great fun tonight. Going off like Golota/Bowe 2. Now that was one crazy Polish dude. Twice giving the champ a right going over and twice disqualified for continually smashing him in the jewels. Once was unfortunate. Twice was sadism. Even after the fight was stopped Golota continued fighting with the crowd.
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
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A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring. GN tmm/guys
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For those of us in the West, (and Japan), who have had 70 years of peace and prosperity and freedom there is only one country to thank and that is America.
This was our great good fortune, that the 20th century was the American century. |
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Indeed lfc. Despite some profound wrongs America has arguably been the kindest great power in history. One can only hope the next one is equally benign.
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Yes EO, I believe that people will look back on the secondand half of the 20c as a kind of golden period and America as the greatest nation in mankinds history.
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It's a typical Western narrative to say America won the war when it's far from the truth, what happened on the western front was nothing compared to what happened in USSR where the war was really won, American triumphalists have been peddling the we won the war line since the day they didn't, with brainwashing, history changing Hollywood films and video games. The Soviets destroyed over 500 German divisions, took over 80% of all casualties in the alliance and by the time the Yanks decided to swing into town helping Britain, they were met with a depleted, weakened, understrength and demoralised enemy already shattered on the Eastern front with little fuel to fight aerial batters, the powerful Luftwaffe had mostly already been destroyed. America had an isolationist policy at the time, the war in the East was a cataclysmic bloodbath, Normandy was puddle in comparison.
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Inclined to agree in some ways. They've done some wrongs but mostly got it right.
Given the technological bar for awful weapons is a constant and the technological level of all countries is always rising, and humans are often a fairly stupid violent species with brainwashed madmen in the mix... Golden period might be right. |
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I meant I agree with the posts above scandanavian_haven, who I note completely misses out the US/UK African, Middle Eastern, Asian or Pacific theatre of operations and Japan.
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Though to be fair to him his point about the horrific nature of the fighting on the eastern front and toll it took has merit. One thing he omits to mention is the efforts of the allies in seeking to supply the Russkies to keep them going.
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On D-Day the Eastern Front was 700 miles from Berlin . And 300 miles from Moscow.
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What the US and Britain gave the USSR in terms of material:
"The United States gave to the Soviet Union from October 1, 1941 to May 31, 1945 the following: 427,284 trucks, 13,303 combat vehicles, 35,170 motorcycles, 2,328 ordnance service vehicles, 2,670,371 tons of petroleum products (gasoline and oil), 4,478,116 tons of foodstuffs (canned meats, sugar, flour, salt, etc.), 1,900 steam locomotives, 66 Diesel locomotives, 9,920 flat cars, 1,000 dump cars, 120 tank cars, and 35 heavy machinery cars." "Between June 1941 and May 1945, Britain delivered to the USSR: 3,000+ Hurricanes 4,000+ other aircraft 27 naval vessels 5,218 tanks 5,000+ anti-tank guns 4,020 ambulances and trucks 323 machinery trucks 2,560 Universal Carriers 1,721 motorcycles £1.15bn worth of aircraft engines 600 radar and sonar sets Hundreds of naval guns 15 million pairs of boots" --- I wonder how well the russians would have done without that? They were so into brainwashing apparently they would tell the Russian troops that the trucks were actually Russian trucks.. |
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The simple fact is once America entered the war no power on earth could stop the West winning that war, not Berlin, not Moscow, not Tokyo, Rome or any combination of these powers.
America was for a few years the most powerful military and technological nation the world has ever seen. It was America who made the decisions...all of them. |
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Think people get a bit carried away arguing one side or the other.
Germany would not have been defeated without all the 3 main allies opposing. If either Britain or the Soviet Union were defeated in 1941 there is nothing America can do. |
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You are getting it back to front, there is only one reason that Britain and Russia were not defeated and that was because the US entered the war.
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How was Britain being defeated in December 1941 ?
Britain was not defeated due to having won The Battle of Britain and having the most powerful Navy . Russia was not defeated due to having won the Battle of Moscow . Americans contributions to those things were pretty negligible. And how is America going to defeat Germany if Britain is conquered by or in alliance with Hitler ? What is America - with or without Britain - going to do against Germany if they have defeated the USSR ? |
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Lets look at it this way. Britain had managed successfully to fight its way right out of Europe and back home and was not going back anytime soon. 100,000 . of its troops had surrendered to Japan in the far East. Hitler, if the US had not entered the war would have been able to concentrate on defeating the soviets, along with his Japanese allies. Had Ger,many been able to through its full might , along with Japan into the Eastern campaign then no one could have stopped Germany and Japan in the East.
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Iseem to recall that the US managed to defeat Japan without using Britain as a staging post. All roads led to Washington.
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So America beat Japan on it's own as well ?
More Japanese soldiers were killed by British forces than by Americans . And a lot more by Chinese. Pacific Islands would have been good staging posts to defeat Germany with  I agree Germany would not have been defeated without America . You are saying that America could have defeated Germany without Britain or Russia , which is crazy . |
