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My son is going to uni next year and he is going to do maths,was thinking of computer science but he visited a couple of well known tech firms and was told they prefer maths grads
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Depends what your son is interested in, it's his life not yours. Can't go far wrong with maths or computing unless he wants to bake cakes or make dresses.
Doesn't matter as long as he has a good time and gets p1ssed every night.
A foreign language is good, because you get a chance to spend a year actually working and living abroad on your own, usually as a teacher. Broadens the mind in a way that just being a tourist never can.
Having said which, the seven other students on my German course at Sussex in the early '80s wasted the year by simply enrolling as exchange students at universities in German-speaking countries.
Having said which, the seven other students on my German course at Sussex in the early '80s wasted the year by simply enrolling as exchange students at universities in German-speaking countries.
Viking Studies (available at the University College London)
as long as you've got an ology you should be fine in life.
Maffs a waste of time. These modern tills will work everything out for you.
s.kenbo - used to deliver her (and Jacks) newspaper as a kid funnily enough (true story).
and helped her place a bet in Ladbrokes on grand national day.
Why did the Maths textbook look so sad?
Because it had so many problems!
Because it had so many problems!
sorry foinavon, but i got stoned just as often as i got pissed!
i went to university to avoid having to get a job. now they worry about what degree gives them the best long term career prospects before they even decide where to go, what a sad state of affairs.
it sounds like you are all thinking about this seriously in which case where he studies is important too. i believe nowadays there are rankings so you can see which degree at which uni will give him the best chance of gaining meaningful employment.
where is he thinking of going?
i went to university to avoid having to get a job. now they worry about what degree gives them the best long term career prospects before they even decide where to go, what a sad state of affairs.
it sounds like you are all thinking about this seriously in which case where he studies is important too. i believe nowadays there are rankings so you can see which degree at which uni will give him the best chance of gaining meaningful employment.
where is he thinking of going?
If it is cold, go and stand in the corner, because it is 90 degrees there.
What do you get when you take the Sun and divide its circumference by its diameter?
Pi in the sky.
Pi in the sky.
Numerate degrees like Maths and Physics etc can be useful as the skills learned can be useful in a lot of areas. People who do them may end up as computer programmers anyway. Or anactuary. Or even doing what the actual degree is anyway. Computer science will have an element of maths but not to the same level.
What matters is what he actually wants to do at the end of the day, he should do something that he wants to do at the end of the day. Degrees aren't always just one big pile of the same thing however. It's quite possible he may be able to attend a uni that gives him a joint computer science AND maths degree, best of both worlds, give that serious consideration.
Or he could specialise in one of the degrees, but chose the optional courses in the other subject in the earlier years that aren't directly listed in the final degree, if the university allows.
What matters is what he actually wants to do at the end of the day, he should do something that he wants to do at the end of the day. Degrees aren't always just one big pile of the same thing however. It's quite possible he may be able to attend a uni that gives him a joint computer science AND maths degree, best of both worlds, give that serious consideration.
Or he could specialise in one of the degrees, but chose the optional courses in the other subject in the earlier years that aren't directly listed in the final degree, if the university allows.
Maths - he will be able to pull the wool over the eyes of almost every other scientist - so long as he can keep a straight face.
We drink our fill, we thirst for more.
Eventually - in a bizarre parallel universe - he may be of some actual use. Unlikely though.
We drink our fill, we thirst for more.
Eventually - in a bizarre parallel universe - he may be of some actual use. Unlikely though.
If he's interested in computers as a career and thinks maths will help, I'd suggest the joint degree.
But of course, is he actually good at maths, an actual maths degree will be a step up in gear.
But of course, is he actually good at maths, an actual maths degree will be a step up in gear.
I'm told a maths degree today is equivalent to an 0-level in 1968. I have no opinion either way.
Maths is a terrible degree to do it's far too hard plus too many hours. When you decide that you want to get up to studenty stuff and coast you need a nice degree with less work involved. Sociology is the one to go for. Plus maths has a very high ratio of boys to girls doing the course. Again Sociology has a much better ratio in this respect.
maths, statistics, operations research students tend to have mental problems in my experience, still, a small price to pay, statistics one of the great disciplines, only do a mickey mouse science like biology if you want to shag and drink a lot, and the "social" sciences are obviously not science but they are more social.
or you could take the money and years you would have blown on a degree and use it to do something useful.
Philosophy is surprisingly good for subsequent employment. The main thing is to get a good degree from a "top" university.
The funny thing is that media studies also has very high graduate employment rates (although I guess that might be because they are all working at Mickey D's).
The funny thing is that media studies also has very high graduate employment rates (although I guess that might be because they are all working at Mickey D's).
My son it aiming to do Physics at Manchester Uni if he gets the grades .
Maths and Physics are the hardest A levels by a country mile in my opinion and I am so proud that he is taking these challenges on rather than softer options.
IT and maths have always been linked, the use of logic in both being the obvious reason.
As an IT professional of over 3 decades I would highly recommend degrees that lead to careers in it .
The modern world is underpinned by IT , jobs are plentiful and very well paid .
Maths and Physics are the hardest A levels by a country mile in my opinion and I am so proud that he is taking these challenges on rather than softer options.
IT and maths have always been linked, the use of logic in both being the obvious reason.
As an IT professional of over 3 decades I would highly recommend degrees that lead to careers in it .
The modern world is underpinned by IT , jobs are plentiful and very well paid .
"Philosophy is surprisingly good for subsequent employment."
I'm sure the tech firms mentioned are crying out for it...
When half the population are getting degrees and leaving with massive debt, just don't let him do something mickey mouse, which despite the fact this have been obvious for years, many are still doing, with the modern sense of entitlement. The world doesn't owe you a living especially if you've got a worthless qualification
Don't let them end up like this!
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltalohGjbP1r25y9yo1_500.jpg
I wouldn't do a straight maths degree myself though.
I'm sure the tech firms mentioned are crying out for it...
When half the population are getting degrees and leaving with massive debt, just don't let him do something mickey mouse, which despite the fact this have been obvious for years, many are still doing, with the modern sense of entitlement. The world doesn't owe you a living especially if you've got a worthless qualification
Don't let them end up like this!
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltalohGjbP1r25y9yo1_500.jpg
I wouldn't do a straight maths degree myself though.
"Philosophy is surprisingly good for subsequent employment."
I'm sure the tech firms mentioned are crying out for it...
From the LSE web site: The average starting salary of undergraduates from the Philosophy department in 2013/14 was £32,200 and for postgraduates £31,000.
I'm sure the tech firms mentioned are crying out for it...
From the LSE web site: The average starting salary of undergraduates from the Philosophy department in 2013/14 was £32,200 and for postgraduates £31,000.
If I had the brain for it I would do the maths course. A most satisfying subject.
my feelings aswell dunlaying,i remember sitting in maths class 30 years ago and my teacher being given a rubix cube by a friend and him solving it by end of lesson,its the clarity of thought it seems to give the grads
Maths degrees - Nothing else gives you that sense of intellectual superiority like being able to work out what number comes next in a sequence. Of course nothing else helps divorce lawyers as much as people with maths degrees.
Train to become an Actuary (Financial Mathematics) .... that is a nice job to get into.
Training for a job is something completely different from an education.
A proper education gives you the tools, experience and confidence to be able to train more readily and effectively for a job later on, then to do the job itself with greater flair and, way more importantly, to handle life outside of work with understanding and resilience.
I enjoyed maths at school in the 1970s, and value it as an antidote to common sense and lack of thought. But once you'd got your A level, the S level syllabus just felt so esoteric with its endless permutations of what you could do with the square root of minus one. I mean, I understand the concept's applications in fields such as electronics, but that sort of specialization felt too much like being directed towards a career rather than being prepared for life.
Which is why I studied a foreign language when it came to the degree. It offers you the key to a whole new world.
A proper education gives you the tools, experience and confidence to be able to train more readily and effectively for a job later on, then to do the job itself with greater flair and, way more importantly, to handle life outside of work with understanding and resilience.
I enjoyed maths at school in the 1970s, and value it as an antidote to common sense and lack of thought. But once you'd got your A level, the S level syllabus just felt so esoteric with its endless permutations of what you could do with the square root of minus one. I mean, I understand the concept's applications in fields such as electronics, but that sort of specialization felt too much like being directed towards a career rather than being prepared for life.
Which is why I studied a foreign language when it came to the degree. It offers you the key to a whole new world.
"From the LSE web site: The average starting salary of undergraduates from the Philosophy department in 2013/14 was £32,200 and for postgraduates £31,000."
I don't want to pick on Philosophy as a degree but I would say that firstly, they are pimping their own degree, and that secondly I'd imagine that is the salary of people who actually get a start in jobs, not everyone who graduates, there is a BIG difference.
Like the difference between "average winnings of people who win on Betfair" vs "everyone on betfair".
In my experience there was a massive difference between what the hype said people earn on graduation, and what they do, even if they get a job in their field.
As I say though to the OP, there is no point setting youself up for a degree and a career you then hate. If he has an interest or even a passion in maths, fair enough. I have some interest but I think I'd have hated a degree 100% in it. If he however has an interest in IT and that's his career path, I'd say take a good CS related degree at a good uni, or say CS and Maths as I said earlier, or some other interesting hybrid.
My other advice is that given everyone and his dog has a degree now, the choice of uni does matter, if he can get one with a good rep, take it.
I don't want to pick on Philosophy as a degree but I would say that firstly, they are pimping their own degree, and that secondly I'd imagine that is the salary of people who actually get a start in jobs, not everyone who graduates, there is a BIG difference.
Like the difference between "average winnings of people who win on Betfair" vs "everyone on betfair".
In my experience there was a massive difference between what the hype said people earn on graduation, and what they do, even if they get a job in their field.
As I say though to the OP, there is no point setting youself up for a degree and a career you then hate. If he has an interest or even a passion in maths, fair enough. I have some interest but I think I'd have hated a degree 100% in it. If he however has an interest in IT and that's his career path, I'd say take a good CS related degree at a good uni, or say CS and Maths as I said earlier, or some other interesting hybrid.
My other advice is that given everyone and his dog has a degree now, the choice of uni does matter, if he can get one with a good rep, take it.
"Training for a job is something completely different from an education.
A proper education gives you the tools, experience and confidence to be able to train more readily and effectively for a job later on, then to do the job itself with greater flair and, way more importantly, to handle life outside of work with understanding and resilience."
I'd probably agree with this. It being a belief that the difference between a good degree and a vocational qualification in the same subject area is that the degree should be teaching you how to think (and in that area), the vocational is how to do a specific task.
I'm not sure how much that might apply in 2016 when it might be more of a qualification treadmill.
A proper education gives you the tools, experience and confidence to be able to train more readily and effectively for a job later on, then to do the job itself with greater flair and, way more importantly, to handle life outside of work with understanding and resilience."
I'd probably agree with this. It being a belief that the difference between a good degree and a vocational qualification in the same subject area is that the degree should be teaching you how to think (and in that area), the vocational is how to do a specific task.
I'm not sure how much that might apply in 2016 when it might be more of a qualification treadmill.
Get a trade ,Half the country will have degrees in 15 years and owe fortunes to Boot ..
U.A. 28 Nov 15 21:45
Maths degrees - Nothing else gives you that sense of intellectual superiority like being able to work out what number comes next in a sequence.
Of course nothing else helps divorce lawyers as much as people with maths degrees.
Fair point, well put.
Admit it, you've got a degree in Philosophy, haven't you?
Maths degrees - Nothing else gives you that sense of intellectual superiority like being able to work out what number comes next in a sequence.
Of course nothing else helps divorce lawyers as much as people with maths degrees.
Fair point, well put.
Admit it, you've got a degree in Philosophy, haven't you?
I got mine in Combined Science a fair while ago, and included in that I did Maths and Sociology (no philosophy) so make of that what you will. Of course I had no idea of what I wanted to do when I left university.
casemoney 29 Nov 15 02:30
Get a trade ,Half the country will have degrees in 15 years and owe fortunes to Boot ..
----
Such sh*t advice. I've a relative with a good trade, he hates it as even at middle age his knees are agony when he does it, not lazyness, just his body is now struggling. His maxmium income levelled out years ago.
Good advice is get the best qualifications you can in a good subject in an area you would be happy working in. I cannot put it better than that. Everyone has bad Mondays but there's a difference between 30 years of "oh well, it's not perfect" and "god I hate this, will I top myself this week?".
Get a trade ,Half the country will have degrees in 15 years and owe fortunes to Boot ..
----
Such sh*t advice. I've a relative with a good trade, he hates it as even at middle age his knees are agony when he does it, not lazyness, just his body is now struggling. His maxmium income levelled out years ago.
Good advice is get the best qualifications you can in a good subject in an area you would be happy working in. I cannot put it better than that. Everyone has bad Mondays but there's a difference between 30 years of "oh well, it's not perfect" and "god I hate this, will I top myself this week?".
Sorry that's perhaps a bit harsh, I didn't mean the way that came across.
There is nothing wrong with a trade, far from it. But what I mean is, if you CAN get a good degree that leads to more money in something you want to do, go the h*ll for it.
The important thing is to get a degreee in something useful. Not sociolajy and wimmins studies.
There is nothing wrong with a trade, far from it. But what I mean is, if you CAN get a good degree that leads to more money in something you want to do, go the h*ll for it.
The important thing is to get a degreee in something useful. Not sociolajy and wimmins studies.
The important thing is to get a degreee in something useful. Not sociolajy and wimmins studies.
No it isn't. Or not necessarily.
The main thing is to get a first from a good university, because some employers only consider new graduates with firsts, and some only look at good universities (loosely defined as Oxbridge, maybe Russell Group, and wherever the person doing the recruiting studied).
Of course, if you have a definite career in mind, then you might need to do that subject -- medicine or electrical engineering, for instance, but aside from those and a few other special cases, it does not really matter. For instance, if you want to be a lawyer, you do not need to do a first degree in law.
So back to getting a first -- and the easiest way to do that is to study a subject you (a) enjoy, and (b) are good at.
No it isn't. Or not necessarily.
The main thing is to get a first from a good university, because some employers only consider new graduates with firsts, and some only look at good universities (loosely defined as Oxbridge, maybe Russell Group, and wherever the person doing the recruiting studied).
Of course, if you have a definite career in mind, then you might need to do that subject -- medicine or electrical engineering, for instance, but aside from those and a few other special cases, it does not really matter. For instance, if you want to be a lawyer, you do not need to do a first degree in law.
So back to getting a first -- and the easiest way to do that is to study a subject you (a) enjoy, and (b) are good at.
something you enjoy, ideally that you're good at, at the best university you can get into.
everything else is irrelevant.
everything else is irrelevant.
If I was interviewing someone for a tech job and they had a 2:2 in say, lets go lateral, chemistry from a good Uni, or a 1st in sociology or some pointless piss from Oxford, it would be the chemist every time.
I think we're both agreed that the uni matters, but what I'm arguing for is that people should not only do something useful, but also something they enjoy. It is after all their life, you only live it once, it's better if you do something you enjoy. Actually ...if you want life stories and maths/engineering, read this: "Not Much of an Engineer" by Stanley Hooker. He was a geeky maths guy who did more to win WW2 than anyone in a trench, by greatly improving the Merlin, then had a lot to do with the Harrier.
I think we're both agreed that the uni matters, but what I'm arguing for is that people should not only do something useful, but also something they enjoy. It is after all their life, you only live it once, it's better if you do something you enjoy. Actually ...if you want life stories and maths/engineering, read this: "Not Much of an Engineer" by Stanley Hooker. He was a geeky maths guy who did more to win WW2 than anyone in a trench, by greatly improving the Merlin, then had a lot to do with the Harrier.
"something you enjoy, ideally that you're good at, at the best university you can get into."
Exactly ;) I may hate Monday sometimes, but you only live once. 30-40 years of something you hate, no matter how much it pays, is too much. If you're lucky enough to do something you can enjoy, other than becoming Scarlett Johansens toilet seat, I'm not sure how you could realisticly improve things. And that is a realistic aim ... well more realistic than a money tree tip coming in ;)
Exactly ;) I may hate Monday sometimes, but you only live once. 30-40 years of something you hate, no matter how much it pays, is too much. If you're lucky enough to do something you can enjoy, other than becoming Scarlett Johansens toilet seat, I'm not sure how you could realisticly improve things. And that is a realistic aim ... well more realistic than a money tree tip coming in ;)
If work was enjoyable would they pay you to do it? Many with degrees end up in law or accounting, you know, a job.
Learning to think is fine, but if your thing is literature, archaeology, social studies, media then you may have painted yourself into a corner.
Learning to think is fine, but if your thing is literature, archaeology, social studies, media then you may have painted yourself into a corner.
kincesm it's not my place to ask what you do,but many many people can have satisfaction in their jobs.
To rule out that people can have a satisfying career is mad. I sometimes get pissed off on a monday, but on balance, I'm ok. Sometimes, I actually am very happy with it. If it was relentless misery, that would be different.
To rule out that people can have a satisfying career is mad. I sometimes get pissed off on a monday, but on balance, I'm ok. Sometimes, I actually am very happy with it. If it was relentless misery, that would be different.
I can't imagine any form of employment that is not relentless misery, I really can't. And I'd add boredom, frustration and self-loathing to that list.
By the way, what's all this about having to get a First? In the year I graduated from the School of European Studies at Sussex there were 3 First-Class degrees, while 44 of us got 2:1s, 51 had 2:2s, and there were three Thirds and one Pass.
I'd always felt quite proud about that 2:1 until now.
By the way, what's all this about having to get a First? In the year I graduated from the School of European Studies at Sussex there were 3 First-Class degrees, while 44 of us got 2:1s, 51 had 2:2s, and there were three Thirds and one Pass.
I'd always felt quite proud about that 2:1 until now.
Yes. Shows that you know how to have a good time, yet still retain the ability to spell your own name.
Get a maths degree
head for the city
Make yer bonuses,retire in your thirties
I know someone who did this
Only problem
Hes on his 3rd wife
head for the city
Make yer bonuses,retire in your thirties
I know someone who did this
Only problem
Hes on his 3rd wife
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