I'm thinking something like, "Wiggins! Froome! Never mind Mont Vent-feckin'-toux. Hauling 24 tins of special-offer Pedigree Chum from Tesco up Bishops Hull Hill - that's cycling, mate, and don't you forget it."

I removed two of the original three, along with the front derailleur mechanism. The one left, ex-middle, has 38 teeth. The rear sprockets range from 12 to 30, so the new gear range is from 34 to 86 inches. Normally, if I use the motor for hills, I don't use a gear under 50 inches. At the other end, on flat ground with the motor operating at its max speed (only 14mph!) I use a 78 inch gear with a pedal cadence of 60rpm.

Apologies! A lapse into extreme bike-freak-speak!

What I was getting at is that you don't need as many gears on an electric bike, so I removed the very high and very low ones. I have toyed with the idea of replacing the whole lot with a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed. Adds a bit of weight though.

But ignore this gobbledygook. Basically, electric bikes just transform cycling; ease, speed, range, load carrying all move into territory you would never have thought possible. But, turn that motor on and you sure ain't getting fit quick. You get some exercise  - but it's too easy!

Go on. Do it. Get one. Bet you don't regret it.

What is it in this country, where we pay over the odds for pretty much everything we buy, but we are then stifled by having to accept
Lower performance/specification than available elsewhere.

How come 15 mph is the max for an e-bike, even though reasonably fit people can hit 20 mph, or more, with pedal power?

Just looking around and of course, in the US their limit is 30 mph!

Personally I would be **** scared, to go at the speeds of pro cycle racers, who are at 40 mph for much of the time!
25 mph downhill is scary enough.

Any way, I would be surprised if anyone would be pulled up for doing closer to 20 mph, if they were seen to be pedaling hard.
It must be dead easy to sort the gearing so this is possible.

AP

You express the frustrations of many e-bikers and, I suspect, many would-be e-bikers as well.

However, as you surmise, electric bike laws and regs are quite commonly flouted pretty much everywhere that has any and, it seems, with almost total impunity. None more so, oddly enough, than in China where the power of the motors and top speeds are both often about double the comparatively restrictive legal maximums (200w continuous output and 12.5mph).

Uk laws now conform to those of the EU (don't tell the UKIPers): 250w continuous output, 25kph (15.5mph) max speed and an installed system (usually called 'pedelec') that ensures the motor will only run when the rider turns the pedals. All apply to cycle paths as much as roads.

Easily got round! Eg my bike's speed is restricted by the maximum rpm of the motor (theoretically 160rpm, but actually about 10% more than that). A standard road bike wheel like mine (about 27 inch diameter including tyre) rotating at 160rpm will do 12.85mph). However, bikes with smaller wheels obviously need a faster spinning motor to reach the same speed. Hence, the manufacturer (Chinese) produces the motors in speeds varying from 160rpm to 260rpm. Had I put a 260rpm motor, which looks exactly the same as the one I have, into my size wheel the top speed would have exceeded 20mph - though the shortage of lower speed torque would have meant pedalling up to about 10mph before turning the motor on.

There's even a bike on sale now in UK fitted with a switch (a switch!) which de-restricts the top speed from the legal max to, I think, 25mph! Of course, they make it clear that this is for 'off-road' use only ...... yeah right.

However, in fairness to the various governments, they do have a bit of a problem with the laws and regs on electric bikes. In practice, people do not ride bikes fast in urban areas. In seven years of e-bike riding I have never been overtaken by a cyclist in the city when I've had the motor switched on. Outside, occasionally. Inside, never. If legal e-bike speeds were increased to 25mph, lots of people would buy them and they would be doing 25mph. At the moment, they're not even doing 15mph. That would make them a new form of transport, rather than an adaptation of an old one.

Electric bikes require no vehicular documentation: tax, MOT, licence, insurance. Legally, they're just bikes. If max speeds increased, that would have to change. Brakes in wet weather?

Instructively, I think, Germany have two categories of e-bike. One is just like here. The other allows motors of up to 350w and restricts speeds only to the norms of the roads. But tax, licence, MOT, insurance all apply - even number plates! And these bikes are not allowed on cycle paths or tracks; only on the motor vehicle sections of roads. Effectively, they're mopeds - or, at least, they have all the moped restrictions applied. Personally, I'd pick the conventional category.

Yes. Bit of a wrench too. At 15mph you do a bit of the work. At 17mph you do all of it!

Try a little experiment before you decide what to get. Load your current bike up with enough extra dead weight to equal the weight of an e-bike and ride it for a few days. Two or three 4 litre containers of water should just about do it. You'll then be able to experience a) physically handling the bike (turning it round, going up a few steps or over a sty, putting it in or on the back/top of a car) and b) riding an e-bike with the motor off.

When I did that sort of thing I quickly reached a decision on which I have never wavered. Go light! Mine is now down to 14kg with more to come. The objective is 12kg. At that weight, I have a normal bike and an e-bike. At 23kg, the heavier of your short-listed two, I would only have an e-bike.

If you want to go the light way you have two choices: build it yourself, perhaps using the bike you already have (it really isn't difficult) or an e-bike from cytronex.com - the only supplier I know of that thinks light.

The low speed is the only drawback, if I am on a early start in the morning and it takes me 10 minutes in the car but 20 on the bike you know what mode of transport I going to use after all a 4am start means a 3am rise in the car or a 2.50am on the bike

sfbtw

That's just the way it is! Look at the weights of the ones advertised. Some of them reach 30kgs! They end up like that mostly because the manufacturers assume people will always ride electric and, therefore, will not be doing much, if any, of the enormous amount of work involved.

But they don't have to be like that. On mine, the motor, battery, wiring and switches add about 2.2kg to the weight of the original bike. So, get a lightweight bike (eg the one you already have?), fit the same tackle and, before you know it, Bob's your uncle and you're bionic!

As an alternative, have you considered pooch-power? Get the dog to either tow the bike or a small trailer designed to carry, at the very least, the dog food.

mac

Your point applies, I reckon, to a lot of commuters - the first thought for whom is always speed. The purpose of the German government's faster category of e-bikes was to address that very issue. (See last paragraph of my long post above.) But, with all the documentation and restrictions that apply to them, you might as well get a scooter. You could, of course, just flout the law instead and find a way to speed it up.... There's an e-biker in London who, apparently, rides round Parliament Square every day on his way to work at 25mph!

Some very interesting post from you laroche, and I also was concerned about the weight issue.

Think I might re-posses my daughter's "Fuji" carbon fibre road bike, that weighs about the same as a hollow fibre pillow.

AP

The Fuji sounds just the ticket! One small, or perhaps not small, point. E-bike motors almost always have 36 spoke holes, sometimes 32 as an alternative; few have anything else. Carbon road bikes never have that many. May need a new wheel.

Battery weight depends on its chemistry and its capacity (which determines mileage), but they are by no means the sole source of the big bike weights.

At one end of the scale there's, well, me. Mine weighs 700gm and is good for 10 miles on flat / gently undulating terrain. It uses the lightest chemistry (lithium - phones and tablets use it) and is incredibly expensive (£140) bearing in mind its limited range. But batteries do get very expensive at the ultra-reliable end - mine's a Bosch.

(At the other, very extreme, end there are still lead acid battery (as in cars)powered e-bikes. They always have heavy steel frames; everything else kind of twitches under the strain!)

More normally, e-bikes almost all now use lithium chemistry and a standard, say, 10 amp hour battery (like on the bikes you shortlisted) would weigh 2.5 to 3kg and do about 40 miles on gentle ground.

The total big weight of e-bikes comes from everything. No carbon on these boys! Every darn thing is heavy - even the pedals! In cycling, heavy means cheap. And, with e-bikes, weight does not seem to matter. So build 'em heavy!

Those bike weights you mention seem extraordinary. They're at least 50% heavier than I would have estimated. Are you sure their right?

ttt