Lord Janner sex abuse charge decision expected

yep the child rapist gets off the hook.

move along now nothing to see here

Tbh I'd be happy if they concentrated on kids being abused now not decades ago. Industrial-scale rape of underage girls in Rotherham and other towns is going on now.

Not in the public interest?
Incredible! Certainly not in someone's interest.
In fact not in the interest of anyone else he might take down with him.

As Sir Humphrey once said, the official secrets act doesn't protect secrets. It protects officials.

I agree with that ^^^

even though he has 'advanced dementia' I would guess he's still eligible to vote in the Lords?

Ernest Saunders anyone? People in high places will always get looked after, the whole system is corrupt.

A DTI report described him as a man who did "unjustifiable favours for friends and himself".[2]

Saunders appealed against his sentence of five years in prison, and on 16 May 1991, the sentence was reduced to two and a half years. Lord Justice Neill said that he was satisfied that Saunders was suffering from pre-senile dementia associated with Alzheimer's disease, which is incurable.[1] Because of his apparent illness, Saunders was released from Ford Open Prison on 28 June 1991 having served only ten months of his sentence. (He would normally have been expected to served 15 months of the 30-month sentence). After his release, he recovered from the symptoms which had led to the diagnosis.[2]

Since then, Saunders has worked as a business consultant, including advising mobile phone retailer Carphone Warehouse from its early days until prior to its flotation. Charles Dunstone, the Chief Executive of Carphone Warehouse, said: "We were young guys who didn’t know what we were doing. He made us think about the questions we ought to ask or the information we ought to look at."

He was later appointed chairman of the executive committee of a US-based multinational petrol credit-card company, Harpur-Gelco.

Saunders also acted as a consultant to Seed International Ltd, a company based in the Cayman Islands. Seed offered investments in a variety of fields including wine, property, oil and gas exploration through Ocean International Marketing, their sales subsidiary with offices in Rotterdam.

Wiki

There you go!

A couple of non-executive directorships are now an official cure for senile dementia!

we are afloat in a sea of self-serving khoonts

Akabula hit the nail on the head

Not in the interest of the people connected to him

the uk is corrupt.

Ireland is praetorian

Can't the victims mount a private prosecution?

The State is again looking after its own.

not sure what you can with an 86 yr old who cant even speak, has dementia and doesn't know what day it is...hang him from his bollocks??? by the way he has denied this all along. Not making excuses for him ,just stating the facts

Pandora, of they left idiots alone, you could go out, commit murder, and get away with it.

Should it not be for the defence to make a case for him not being able to stand trial?

pandora would be singing a different tune if it was a tory peer

A person's health should not determine whether or not a case should be tried, the punishment if found guilty is a different matter.  Victims deserve some sort of justice to be served, and a trial and verdict is the very least they might expect.

How are you doing Burt?
Drop me a line via Jas on Facebook if you feel like it.

we're getting there m8 the new pup is running us ragged and keeping our minds off things.

If he's too ill to attend then the case should be heard in his absence.

He's old and past his sell by date, be quicker to shoot him.

Who, Burt?  That's a bit harsh, sir!

"A person's health should not determine whether or not a case should be tried"
How can he answer questions if he can't speak ? How can he understand questions if he doesn't know what day it is ?

If he can't attend, Artie, the case should be heard in his absence.

I'm guessing the CPS think his evidence, if he is capable of giving any, would be unreliable, if not inadmissable, due to his dementia and therefore any conviction might be unsafe? I'm speculating of course as I have no idea of how advanced his dementia is.

Nor have I, Mr B, but I believe that the case should be heard whether he is able to attend or not.  The level of punishment, of course, would be an entirely different matter.

I sort of agree PM, but I think artie makes a good point - if he was prosecuted he would be entitled to a defence, but if he has no idea what is going on, how could he mount one? And again, I have no idea as to the severity of his condition.

"If he can't attend, Artie, the case should be heard in his absence." How would he present his defence, by telepathy  ?

He would be defended in his absence, the onus would still be on the prosecution to convince a jury that whatever allegations levelled against him are beyond doubt.  That could be difficult, being absent might well turn out to be advantageous in a case of this nature.

Regardless of his innocence or guilt, his family should button it.

Acording to a Glasgow journalist in Leicester for the Frank Beck trial, many of the journalists after the case believed Janner should have faced a trial.
The guy said it may take a decade but we will be back, imagine how these journalists felt on reading Mick Creedon`s interview some years ago.

HH Sultan Vinegar     16 Apr 15 13:42 
even though he has 'advanced dementia' I would guess he's still eligible to vote in the Lords?



In actual fact it's a requirement.

Pokermonster     16 Apr 15 17:01 
A person's health should not determine whether or not a case should be tried, the punishment if found guilty is a different matter.  Victims deserve some sort of justice to be served, and a trial and verdict is the very least they might expect.


Spot on.

not prosecuted because he's demented ? of course he demented, he's a friggin' pederast

he's a friggin' pederast

not proven 

Things going as planned ...rounding up the dead, Leon Brittain and  Cyril Smith and the too sick to stand trial.

^ very informative !

Didn't know this.


pederast (plural pederasts)

A man who is engaged in an erotic relationship with an adolescent boy; a practitioner of pederasty.
Usage notesEdit
The term pederast has sometimes been incorrectly used to describe men sexually involved with pre-pubescent girls, or child-rapists who don't have any ongoing relationship with the child. For an adult fixated on only sexual involvement with prepubescent children, or for heterosexual child-eroticism, pedophile is used instead.

Apr 16, 2015 -- 12:40PM, HH Sultan Vinegar wrote:

As Sir Humphrey once said, the official secrets act doesn't protect secrets. It protects officials.

Yes minister contained more penetrating insight into the workings of this country than all the the chuntering of all the political commentators I've heard in my life.    off the top of my head, Sir Humprhey also said ' Trident is the kind of weapons system Harrods might sell you - if Harrod's weapons systems'.   A series of subversive genius that show was.    Still worth watching even now.

(' ... if Harrod's sold weapons systems.')

Why on earth can't the court hearings take place in his absence?  I can think of other cases where people have been found guilty in absentia.

I think holocaust felons were pursued into their 90's

Yep

ILL BRAIN  smash with  Baseball Bat ,save the nhs thousands looking after the fxxk

I think holocaust felons were pursued into their 90's

indeed, but this isn't about age, it's about fitness to stand trial

Hans Breyer (Auschwitz) had claimed he has dementia, it didn't stop the authorities jailing him while awaiting trial. He died a month later. I'm sure there will be others.

Doesn't matter how old he is, or that he has Dementia. Apparently, there is a process that could have been followed. Called a ' hearing of fact ' This allows victims to declare what happened to them, and to see justice is being done.

Btw, Janner was still acting as a company director a month ago. A quick lapse into dementia must have followed.

still claimed expenses in 2013 for Lords attendance. same year his house was raided

Cyril Smith -- LibDem
Leon Brittan -- Conservative

So was there an element of "political balance" in naming a Labour peer they'd not be charging? Could this news have been announced just to even things up before next month's general election, or is that a conspiracy theory too far?

yes, that is fanciful .  But then there are presumably dozens and dozens known to be up to their necks in this stuff, so, no biggie really.

this stuff trancends party politics i'd say - go deep enough and the Establishment is a single entity, all batting for each other.  All in it together etc

Brittan's was far from proven surely ???

They've paid out on Headmaster Cyril obviously.

One of his victim was apparent 7 years old. They should put to court, and if is too sick sent him indefinitely to mental institution for the rest of natural life. By the way his property if found guilty should be sold and money distributed to his victims.

will the victims be able to claim anything without a "crime" being convicted in court?

Brittain not proven?  Lol neither was Saville .

Absolute joke that he wasn't even arrested and questioned.

Lord Lucan to rock up by the end of the week with dementia, nap.

Facts
HH Sultan Vinegar     16 Apr 15 13:42 
even though he has 'advanced dementia' I would guess he's still eligible to vote in the Lords?

In actual fact it's a requirement.

Never been much of a conspiracy theorist but it made me think of all these recent prosecutions taking place from people in the entertainment industry, in some cases quite vigorously if this was a concerted effort by the political establishment & the powers that be to deflect allegations away from them, all this comes to light only at a time when its revealed Jenner will never be prosecuted, how many others are out there that we wont hear about till they are either dead or to ill to be prosecuted, we are going to hear of new cases like this on a regular basis for several years imo.

Abuse over 2 decades..............this geezer ffs

sorry 3

Obviously he denied it all. The kind of men who rape vulnerable children are lower than whale sh1t, so lying would be the least of their worries.

Analysis of Westminster attendance records revealed that Janner attended the House of Lords almost daily and claimed more than £100,000 in expenses in the four years after he was diagnosed with the disease.
He only stopped attending Parliament – and claiming up to £300 a day for doing so – when child abuse police raided his house on December 2013. Even in that month he attended the Lords 12 times.

Statement from an alleged victim of historic sex abuse

Issued on 16/4/15 at 3:23 p.m.

The following is a statement made by one of the 25 individuals who claimed to have been assaulted in Leicestershire between the 1960s and 1980s and whose claims were investigated by Leicestershire’s Police Operation Enamel enquiry.

The man has expressly requested that Leicestershire Police make his statement publicly available.

In describing today’s decision as “a disgrace”, he said:

“This animal is still being protected because [of his status] and isn't able to stand trial. They say that it's not in the public interest, but isn't it in the public interest to know what his victims have gone through at the hands of this man?

“If he was an everyday person with a normal life and job, justice would [have] been served, but as it stands we victims are just being pushed to the ground again and walked over.

“Let someone feel the pain and suffering that I've endured and still going to endure for the rest of my life. It's not a case of being found guilty or going to prison - it's about being believed after so long being told that we were lying. Justice needs to be served.”


.
https://leics.police.uk/news-appeals/news/2015/04/16/statement-from-an-alleged-victim-of-historic-sex-abuse

It's not a case of being found guilty or going to prison - it's about being believed after so long being told that we were lying.

The fact that the DPP has said that they have enough evidence to prosecute means that they are believed

They should go ahead and prosecute. Matters not whether Janner is fit or not. The evidence needs to be heard. Justice needs  to be seen to be being done

Justice does need to be seen to be done, but how is that possible if the defendant is not in a fit mental state to defend himself? It cannot be a fair trial if only the prosecution case is put.

Interesting that he was facing charges of 'buggery'.

Surprised the gays haven't got that word changed to rape.

Of course it isn't rape cos it isn't sex.

I'm pleased to see that Teresa May has expressed concern at the CPS decision.

Perhaps if they won't prosecute, the CPS should send him on an all expenses paid holiday to Raqqa.

Hmmm.  What DOESN'T Janner have in common with Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, Max Clifford and Gary Glitter?

Facts     16 Apr 15 18:36 
Doesn't matter how old he is, or that he has Dementia. Apparently, there is a process that could have been followed. Called a ' hearing of fact ' This allows victims to declare what happened to them, and to see justice is being done.


For ramruma

That's important especially as his family are insisting that he is innocent of all accusations.
We need to know.

Im sure his family are protesting his innocence,but how would they know the facts,anyone devious enough to be involved in these practices over such a lengthy period would surely be devious enough to hide it from his family.

As i said earlier in the fred: his family need to button it..

Apparently, there is a process that could have been followed. Called a ' hearing of fact ' This allows victims to declare what happened to them, and to see justice is being done.

Well presumably the victims have declared what happened to them - how would this help? And, more to the point in this awful business, how do you actually punish someone who doesn't even know who they are? (I am assuming that the medics are correct in their assessment, notwithstanding the fact that he continued to attend the house of lords for several years after his diagnosis)

Reminiscent of Ernest Saunders the Guiness Chairman who was in prison after being found guilty of serious fraud. He was released when he was found to be sufferinfg from Alzeimers but made a miraculous recovery and within a year had a well paid position with Carphone Warehouse.

suppose the answer we need is how difficult it would be for an intelligent person to hoodwink an expert into believing someone had dementia,pretty easy i would imagine.

"no comment"

  "cant remember"

                         sorry

                                         OK M8

'Lord' Janner signed a letter sent to the Lords 12 days ago saying he wanted to remain as a peer.

A spokeswoman for Leicestershire police said they would consider contacting the House of Lords about the letter as part of Operation Enamel, their ongoing investigation into Janner and other alleged paedophiles.

Simon Danczuk, the former Labour MP for Rochdale who has co-written a book about the Cyril Smith child sex abuse scandal, said: “The decision on whether Lord Janner is fit to stand trial should be resolved before the courts and not in a clandestine and quasi judicial way behind closed doors.
“If Lord Janner is incapable of answering questions and going before a court then how can he possibly remain a possible legislator in the House of Lords? It’s bringing the whole place into disrepute.”
.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/20/further-questions-raised-about-whether-or-not-lord-janner-is-fit-to-stand-trial

Couple of other things - The DPP took advice on whether to send Janner to trial from a barrister at the same chambers as Janner's son. It was also originally stressed that 4 doctors had given Janner a "not well enough to stand trial" note, but it now transpires that two of them were paid by his family as private doctors and did not represent true independent medical witnesses.

I would just like to say that my first name is not Ernest...

Some people are protected by sshhh.

They know too much about establishment foibles ... e.g. Savile.

And when the people get noisy, we get prosecutions of e.g. Dave Lee Travis, Rolf Harris.  "Celebs" prosecutions that will appease the press.

But name me any from the "great & good" that have been prosecuted ... no we wait until they have died and then they can't talk.

glad to see this won't go away. Headlines/articles popping up daily, from all the papers.

Lord Janner detective: We had proof to charge child sex politician 20 years ago... But top brass told us to stop

Lord Janner sent a Christmas card to police officer who investigated child sex abuse allegations against him

Lord Janner Home Office chiefs ignored 4th warning of child sex claims in 1995

Keith Vaz helped kill a 90s probe into the Greville Janner claims: why is he silent now?

Special Branch files on the suspected child abuser Lord Janner are believed to have been destroyed more than a decade ago.

Another cover up. MPaedos

............. and another cover-up of those who covered-up for him.

like your new avatar aka

David Massingham, 77, was not deemed fit to stand trial on charges of historic child abuse allegations because of his mental health.

A procedure exists to deal with criminal suspects thought to have mental illness.

In serious cases where a judge rules a suspect not fit to stand trial, a jury can hear the evidence in the suspect's absence and decide if the individual committed the crimes.

If so, the person can be detained in a hospital, supervised at home or given an absolute discharge, which does mean a criminal record.

Massingham was charged with 12 offences.

He denied molesting two boys more than 30 years ago.

In February 2014, a finding of fact hearing in Teesside Crown Court, the jury  decided he had committed the acts.

He was not found to be guilty, or not guilty, but a judge ordered him to be detained indefinitely in hospital.

All you need to get off these charges is a four letter word.

Lord.

I could have supplied a better one.

be interesting to see if the Scottish police & the Crown Office can succeed where the CPS has failed.

is that his daughters who is always on big question........she as a double barrel names but one of those names is janner........she looks very much like him

if she is his daughter she has double standards as she said last week oscar groning who worked at auschwitz should be prosecuted even though he is suffering from ill heath and is 93.

yes Rabbi Laura Janner-Klausner

shes a ****..........oscar groning only worked there.........he tried several times to transfer to the russian front....he was never killed or was cruel to any inmate..........he was just sent to work there ....she said he was responslble for 300,000 deaths

he's died

Wonder how much IHT will be paid on his estate. Socialists are keen on people paying taxes.

The "trial of the facts" set for April will no longer take place.

convenient - same doctor as Leon Brittan I wonder ? a few of the old peado's will be woried about getting ill.

convenient - same doctor as Leon Brittan I wonder ? a few of the old peado's will be woried about getting ill.

Jack Bauer '24'    19 Dec 15 18:35 
The "trial of the facts" set for April will no longer take place.


It should still take place. There are a lot of his victims who need closure.
Otherwise he just gets away with it. And the facts are ever aired.

Good riddance

Not according to the lawyer representing the victims.

A "trial of the facts" set for April will no longer take place. A lawyer representing alleged victims said they had been denied justice.
Liz Dux, who represents six alleged victims, said: "This is devastating news for my clients. They have waited so long to see this case come before the courts, to be denied justice at the final hurdle is deeply frustrating."
The Goddard inquiry, which is examining child sexual abuse claims, may now examine the allegations, the BBC's Tom Symonds said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35142675

The CPS has confirmed to the BBC that it will not now happen. Reported just now on BBC news.