TURNER

So...in a nutshell...the painting is about the grammar of painting itself, free from conscious subject matter...it's about texture, tone, colour, line.

I think, if you taught the Pollok drip-technique to all the forumites on Betfair, no two people would paint the same way. Pollock's stuff is not really random, and he usually has some sort of structure in the paintings.

I have to warn you, Mac - I speak fluent, authentic, art-world bullsh1t...

Thanks for the explanation Vel.
I always wondered what they managed to "abstract" from Impressionism. You have confirmed my suspicions magnificently.

Thanks Vel, that was interesting to read. So the folk that buy crap like that like to make out they are superior intellect and can see things that we don`t appreciate or understand. To I, it looks like a painting of vomit seen on the street on the way home from the pub.

Evening Foinavon.

Personally, I prefer Cezanne`s The Card Players. 2nd most expensive piece sold at $259 million (today's equivalent $274 million) in 2011.

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/7892d...

I am off now to the club now but will catch up with you guys later and post the most expensive painting.

Good evening The Mighty Mac.

I remember the art critic Clement Greenberg on the Open Uni back in the 80s

I used to tune into Modern Art and Modernism every year, if that was the one, a very enjoyable course, wish they'd show it again.

this is more my speed:

http://tiny.cc/o2alwx

(I wish)

Peter Howson on Songs of Praise now...Big Pete...

And the most expensive painting (drum roll) at £300 million is ......

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/34e59b5f957c5f2aaf471e60af4010df.jpg?v=152100[/img]

Nafea Faa Ipoipo (When Will You Marry?) by Paul Gauguin

Here`s a cheapo. Eight Elvises by Andy Warhol at $109 million

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/107f298b52f1e214b1df72ce5600f320.jpg?v=99360[/img]

Woman III by de Kooning at $162 million (ha,ha,ha)

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/8d592c53554e1a13570be8f3ade38d7f.jpg?v=128700[/img]

I wouldn't give that a second look if hung in a museum mac.
I used to visit Kelvingrove a lot and could look at some of the paintings all day.
But it was mainly Scottish landscapes or paintings with a Scottish landscape backdrop.

I wouldn`t give it a first look.

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/46350...

That is a touching painting.

Goodbye My Old Friend by Matania.

At least the horse picture is well drawn, most of these expensive paintings look like they've been done by a first year art student (at best).

I'm glad I'm not cultured!!!

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/64132...

Now we are talking.

That Gauguin painting - I did an almost exact copy back in 1990, for a pal. I did it on a burlap bag I found outside a Chinese restaurant...the burlap bag was for a huge amount of rice. I sold it for £35 - it only took a day to paint. I put the dough towards a big lucky 15 on Breeders' Cup day and had a decent return with Safely Kept and In the Wings...that was the year Dayjur jumped the shadow...

It took me about 8 coats of Dulux vinyl silk to fill the feckin' holes in the burlap...used a hair dryer to dry the emulsion...

Mightymac - is that Dayjur jumping the shadow?? I thought he was a lot darker than that!

That looks like Generous or Grundy to me...

lol vel

Brings a new meaning to a takeaway

Regards the horse, you jest I assume? It`s the famous whistlejacket by Stubbs

Yes, I've seen it in London - beautiful...

Just checked PedigreeQuery...there's a Whistlejacket registered, born in 1749...is there a quick way to check if he is an ancestor of Generous or Grundy??

Genuine fakes by Velasquez, only £35 each. Sounds like a bargain to me

"...(was named after a contemporary cold remedy containing gin and treacle."

Yes, Foinavon - flog 'em wholesale!

keeps you in pasta, good thinking.

Hee hee...well that was back in the day...sure, Picasso used to swap paintings for dinners...

Did you do the painting with Dulux too or did you splash out on acrylics?

I don't mind the C18th hoss chatter, but is there any chance this thread could get back to talking about baseball?

It was Dulux...believe it or not, high end emulsion is better quality than fancy Winsor & Newton primers...yeah, Dulux...then acrylic for speed...and finish off with oil paint.

Bake for 45 mins. at gas mark 6...

................. then find a mug.

Who talks the most pretentious chyt of these critics. Art, Theatre or Food?

Good stuff.

The Gauguins I've actually seen (Quai D'Orsay) were as flat as a pancake in appearance, no surface reflection at all, so you could get away with emulsion.
John Myatt said that he did his forgeries with household paint and he fooled so called experts.

You forgot wine Akabula. They are all the same, making a good living from hot air like any decent con-man (or woman).

I think it's got to be food critics. No matter how fine the food it's gonna be flushed.

I dislike them all and try to avoid reading or watching any of them.
Over complicate whatever they are talking about.
I quite like listening to an art expert say how they know a work is by a particular artist but when they start explaining the content I switch off.
They are all to be enjoyed and if you like it it is good art, wine food or whatever despite what any fecker says.

Yass - most TV improves if you hit the mute button.

Wine experts talk a load of rubbish. Complete snobbery. "Electric Soup" was pretty popular around here in the 70s. Never here of it now. Mind you, I think most folk who drank it are dead now from liver disease. Sad.

Googled that mac. Milk infused with gas, is that right?

Don't mention it FFS - Zilzal's convinced it's part of the Glaswegian diet!

lol Aka

vel

Eldorado

nickname for

The Glasgow Gourmets meal. A Glesca Salad washed down wae a boattle o buckie.

Nae wonder the English are feart tae come up here, between "electric soup" and "Taggart".

You two are no doin' the tourist industry any favours.

Aye. Ye cannae beat it

Thers been a murder!

Did you see Leigh Griffiths' six pack the other night? A six pack of Tunnock's tea cakes. Proper nutrition there for the discerning modern athlete.

Biggest crime here is the garden gnomes getting stolen by the local druggies. Funny, I`ve got some stoaters but they never get touched.

Aye, **** the Pasta, Tunnock`s all the way!

Instant energy - you don't even need to chew much...quality.

No doubt some of those lads are teaching Deila a few things about health and nutrition in the modern game.

I had a good laugh at Griffiths. Got to hand it to him he disnae give a feck. Looked content.

Lust For Life starring Kirk Douglas just starting on my telly now!

s.kenbo     05 Apr 15 20:24 
At least the horse picture is well drawn, most of these expensive paintings look like they've been done by a first year art student (at best).

I'm glad I'm not cultured!!!






Lots of people think of abstract painting that ' I could do that '  But the reality is - you couldn't .

One for Mac :

MAC CONNOR...commercial artist...he was on CH4 NEWS on Friday, in a 10 minute interview, speaking from his Manhattan apartment. Really skillful artist and there were dozens of these guys, one better than another. Get this - he is 102 years old and lives with his cat. MAC CONNOR probably an alias of course as he is really Kenny Mann...

He has an exhibition in London at the moment - if you like MAD MEN you'll like these paintings. Most are done with gouache on illustration board or masonite, which is a type of hardboard I think. Don't know if CH4 news still have this up on the website - must be near the end of the programme. These guys - so skillful.

You know what? I've had 18 goes at spelling this guy's name and I still can't get it right.

Started off with MATT CONNORS...anyway...

MAC CONNER - that's it - MAC CONNER is the guy's name. 102 years of age.

When you think of the horsecrap Jack Vettriano churns out - Mac Conner is ten times better.

A fine craftsman Velasquez, his work is reminiscent of Pop Art. (might even be pop art)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/10/mac-conner_n_5793800.html

I find gouache works similarly to acrylics and lacks the subtlety of watercolour. At least it doesn't feck your brushes up .

Hee hee, yes, Foinavon...I've never tried gouache!

I knew an artist - vg too - who swore by it...he thought it was the best and most durable paint he ever used. Just raided the garage there and found a 2.5 litres tin (unopened) of Craig & Rose Arabian Red Chalky Emulsion...am now transferring it to empty gherkin jars by way of backscratcher and spoon.....over.....hee hee...the backscratcher is to stir the paint...it's been lying awhile...this is just about exactly the colour Munnings would often use as a primer...Indian Red, Burnt Sienna, Venetian Red, Arabian Red...in other words : BROON!!

I once bought several hundred tubes of gouache and watercolour when WH Smith were shutting down their art dept. - the woman at the checkout refused to believe the price when I told her it was ten tubes for a pound...had to march her round to the shelf with a handwritten notice...even then she thought I'd taped up the notice myself...I bunged the paints under the sink and have never used them...hope they haven't dried up...wouldn't be such a bargain after all...

Yeah, it's funny how the guys that copied the comic artists and commercial artists became super famous and rich while the real "pop" artists just muddled along.

Just don't know how they manage to achieve that flawless eggshell finish on the background.
You can work from dark to light using it straight from the tube but too much water will dissolve up the under layer and create broon mud. Have a go.

I will at some point. Bonnard and Vuillard used it a lot.

If you're working from dark to light you could start with THIN acrylic for the underpainting and then switch to gouache - the gouache wouldn't pick up the acrylic as acrylic is permanent when dry.

That's a good idea and would work.
Not keen on acrylics though as they dry quickly and gunge up the brushes especially near the ferrule as once it starts to dry it can't be removed .
Haven't done many gouache paintings, although just finished one. Prefer using watercolour and pastel to anything else.

I used to do a lot of pastels. I developed a nice technique, as follows :

People chuck out those roll-up linen or canvas blinds - I've picked up about six in the last year, from the streets, like, for free. You cut out a bit you want and stretch it over a wooden frame or even tack it onto a drawing board. You do all your drawing and then paint the shapes in with darkish colours, undertones, like raw umber mixed with a wee bit of white, darkish grey, olive green, etc...use very watery acrylic as it gives the linen or cotton a rough tooth when it dries thoroughly...then you start with the chalks and pastels on top...the result is sensational. Again, you have to use acrylic as it's permanent and wont mix with the pastels, other than giving an optical effect as an underpainting.

The only downside of the technique is that it fairly rips up the pastels, like you are drawing on sandpaper. Before you start, you can wet the linen with a scoosher to take out the creases...when it dries it will be crease free. If you don't have a scoosher, you can iron the linen...if you don't have an iron, get one!

PS - yes, Leonardo Da Vinci was a genius, but have you ever noticed that his major art projects were fecked up pretty quickly by woeful technical knowledge? Paint quickly flaking off walls, etc...

By the way - forgot to mention - while you're buying an iron, buy a scoosher as well...FFS!...

Thanks for the tips Vel. What's a scoosher? Surely not what they say in Urban dictionary

Have only used pastel on paper and that velvety stuff that costs an arm and a leg for a toilet paper size sheet. Free canvas sounds good. Would think gesso tinted with watercolour would work just as well as a primer. Sometimes I will put on watercolour washes then draw strong marks with pastel and finally wash with a wet brush to fix the pastel. Conte soft pastel is water soluble and works well.

Leonardo's line drawings are so fine you need a fecking magnifying glass when you get to my age. Paper was expensive back then.

A scoosher is one of those plastic spray gun things you can get in the £ shop for a £. It atomizes water...it diffuses water into a fine mist...you know - the bottle thingmy people use for gardening - now, I dare not Google SCOOSHER as Urban Dictionary says 80% of the language is TOTAL FILTH!

You can buy big rolls of cotton duck quite cheap and that's fine for the same technique. You probably know this anyway, but you can use cheapo hairspray instead of fixative as long as you're cool about destroying the ozone layer.

Like, I'm thinking, "How will brother Foinavon acquire those lovely linen blinds? Perhaps he does not reside in an area of the country where discontented numpties renew their interiors every six months?"

You could experiment with all sorts of cloths, etc. picked up from car boot sales and charity shops...as long as you stretch the cloth and soak it, it will dry crease-free...but those cheapo linen blinds are the best surface I've found. You'll have to get a decent staple gun, right enough, costing about £15. It's up to you whether you want to leave the surface on a stretcher...or...you can cut the cloth / linen and get it framed.

Yes, the cheaper hairspray the better as it doesn't contain all the additives. Tesco Value brand  works well. Years ago I once bought Winsor & Newton fixative spray for about £5 a can. After a few sprays the nozzle blocked Never again.
The trouble with canvas is the problem of storage. You either need a big attic or a large dustbin. Most of my stuff is on paper in ringbound pads so doesn't take up much floorspace. Some of the pastels are not even fixed, just interleaved with glassine paper sheets.

Do you manage to sell much of your work, and if so are these commissions?

You two sound like Elmyr de Hory and Wolfgang Beltracchi

Mac trying to get us arrested...Who are these guys??

Used to sell a lot of work in two English galleries, but it was the same type of thing, over and over - Edward Hopper-like paintings of people in interiors, and they were quite melancholy. In the last few years I removed all paintings from galleries and did some portrait commissions. Now I've stopped all commissions to do super-realistic paintings - still lives featuring glass, toys, magazines and home-made sculptures. Digital photography is a huge boon IMO as I used to spend a lot on film...now you can take 500 photos and pick one.

Wolfgang Beltracchi - can't made his mind up if he is German or Italian.

Cedric McGlashan - English or Scottish?

Paddy Patel - Irish or Indian?

You are a brave man Velasquez to attempt hyper-realism. Hours and hours of meticulous work for each piece of artwork. I know a girl who used to take months over each one which she did with graphite pencils on paper. Do you have anything you would be prepared to show us?

I like Hopper and made part copies of a couple of them, "Chop Suey" and "Sunday".

Nothing wrong with "Genuine fakes" Mac, I've made lots for personal use. It's if one fakes the signature and tries to pass them on as the real thing or infringes copyright that it becomes criminal.

I have a magnificent oil painting of The Last Supper, a "genuine fake" as you term it Foinavon, which I got from China

Yes, I saw a programme on TV a while back about the Chinese copy artists. They really are good and work for a pittance churning out dozens of paintings a week in factory conditions.

I wish you hadn`t told me that mate. I assumed that I was buying direct from the artist but having read your comment above, it`s highly possible that I wasn`t. I don`t like to see people being exploited

They seemed happy enough Mac, doing what they enjoyed doing rather than working in a sweatshop or electronics factory, probably for less. Perhaps some are freelance but then they would have the problem of marketing their work. What is certain is that the hand painted work is much preferable to buying a cheap printed reproduction and you are keeping someone in a job.
I've just checked my recordings and the programme was shown on Sky Arts1 and called "Made in China: Copy Artists". Don't know how long ago though.

You could probably download it here.
https://eztv.ch/ep/31920/bskyb-made-in-china-copy-artists-pdtv-xvid-ac3-mvgroup/

Thanks Foinavon. I got it from a Chinese girl on Ebay.

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/08a71...

Good morning Mac,

Thanks Foinavon. I got it from a Chinese girl on Ebay.

Aha, is that what you told the doctor?

Thanks for the picture

Very good Foinavon

Here is a photo of the daddy of Aintree

[img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/themightymac/65f79664ebec85d43198b3ac8e2af04b.jpg?v=95400[/img]

Foinavon - I'm posting nothin' on the Internet until I'm ready to roll. I've systematically removed as much as I can from the Internet. Quality control... This thing about hyper-realism...you just need patience and some small brushes. Do you like doing jigsaws?? I start off with matt acrylic then switch to oils. It's not like playing football or something - you've got time to plan everything.

Today's artist is...Louis Treserras.

Not sure if they're all paintings...I guess not...photos and photoshop? A reduced palette with whites, ochres, browns, blacks. Luverly biscuits.

Thanks for the artist of the day Velasquez. Photo-realist or photographs, who can tell? He certainly has an eye for the ladies.

I know what you mean about small brushes and patience as I generally work on quarter Imperial size paper but I wouldn't have the patience to do what you are doing.
I guess you must be happy with putting oil over acrylic but are you sure it isn't going to peel off over time rather like "The Last Supper"?