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Mohammad Ali aka Cassius Clay
Mohammad Ali aka Cassius Clay
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Replies: 95
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yeah he was motivated by the way black people were treated , but at the same time he should have recognised what a bunch of shysters those who latched onto him were.
I'm not saying he was a plank like Tyson but he was no Bobby Fischer either |
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boxingthefox - yes, that is certainly a possibilty and that did occur to me.
Have you read his biography by Thomas Hauser? Ali was quoted as saying that the questions might as well have been written in a foreign language. But, as I said, you could be right. |
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Fair play mate I'm working in the dark on this one.
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What is irrefutable is that he made boxing an acceptable sport to the general public.
I can't think of any other sportsman that has made as big an impact in their sport as Ali did in boxing. |
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Initially he was extremely unpopular in the USA for refusing the draft but when the tide of public opinion turned against the Vietnam War, he bacame a hero.
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Ali would have far been too quick, strong and intelligent for Tyson to cope with. For me Ali would have stopped him inside the distance, preferably in a 15 rounder so Tyson would know he was looking for a haymaker when miles behind on points in the latter rounds and just being picked off. Ali would have beaten him absolutely no question in my mind.
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None Aka, people in Britain,and elsewhere staying up half the night to catch his fights was a first on a global scale.
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Ali was streetwise but not an educated chap
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Intelligent in a boxing sense AG, I'm not saying I'd want Ali in my University Challenge team. Amyone who thinks he wouldn't have put Tyson to the sword is seriously deluded.
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Ali still buzzing, got us all talking, and sharing opinions and memories, and I don't mean in the "usual chit chat" fashion.
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Something Lenny Henry said which I can relate to: "My dad would wake me up in the middle of the night to watch Ali beat someone up".
He was the best I've seen and have no doubt he'd have stopped Tyson. |
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SlippyBlue Ali would have far been too quick, strong and intelligent for Tyson to cope with. For me Ali would have stopped him inside the distance, preferably in a 15 rounder so Tyson would know he was looking for a haymaker when miles behind on points in the latter rounds and just being picked off. Ali would have beaten him absolutely no question in my mind. Spot on summation. |
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AG, you're not wrong, but being black in America in Louisville demanded all your attention and intellect. I imagine??. sure when he became world famous he could have changed but he had fame,(world fame)and the attention of leeches, women, promoters, etc, he did not have the time afforded to Robben Island inmates (for example) to contemplate everything. I for one would not be too harsh given the circumstances/times.
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Slippy stop pinching my thoughts
 I don't know anyone who has actually lived through both era's who thinks Tyson would have been anything but inferior to Ali in every department save power, but as Foreman, Frazier and others found power is not enough. It's not called boxing for nothing!!. |
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Do you know why it's called boxing?
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Do you know why it's called boxing?
It was easier to say and spell than pugilism? |
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the middle English word "box" means "blow" or "hit", later it was defined as "blow by fist". It has nothing to do with "the box" where you can "box........OK copy and paste I'm a one fingered typist, It's easier, I meant in in the sense of the sport evolving from the "Gentleman Jim Sullivan days, But you you knew that you rascal you.
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Ask any Fox.
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Fox, with both men in their pomp Ali would have jabbed Tyson's head off. Tyson would have a punchers chance but would be disillusioned at constant stinging punches and no doubt get cut up and would lose composure. No brainer for me this one.
2/13 Ali 5/1 Tyson 50/1 draw |
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Far too generous with those odds, or just roping the dopes in??
I'll get me gum shield. |
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Ali would have made Tyson look silly, Tyson would not have mentally be able to cope with him imo. I always thought it was a great shame we probably never saw Ali at his peak during his exile from boxing.
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Ali didn't have an education but he was a pretty sharp fella even without Bundini rhymes.
People who make outlandish claims about Tyson were taken in by the hype and don't know boxing simple as that. Tyson was a bully who shrunk when faced with someone who didn't shrivel in front of him. Anybody with a good jab and balls of steel would have beaten him. Ali would have beaten him. A prime Liston would have beaten him. A prime Holmes would have beaten him and Lewis would have beaten him. Holyfield would have always beaten him. Foreman circa 72 would have thrown him over the top rope. A fight against a peak Frazier I'd have close with Tyson slight favourite. You cant get away from the whipping Buster Douglas lay down on a 24 year old Tyson. From first bell to when Tyson was smashed apart he stuck that jab and right cross in his face and Tyson didn't have an answer. |
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ITTG, how many sportsmen at world level, have come back from an enforced layoff. There are some on here who know Ali was a one off, amazing athlete.
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Eeternaloptimist, please cease and desist, do not introduce fact, and obvious common sense to this discussion, otherwise it will die. I thank you, didn't A A say that a lot ???? only going on old clips you know.
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a great boxer but like so many of them not a great human being
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Tyson would have made an unbelievable mixed martial arts fighter he was in his prime now. He would beat Ali in MMA but not boxing, not in their prime because Ali would never stop moving and dodging but then he would pounce. The best heavyweight there has ever been for sure.
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BB, are you talking about Ali, and his disgraceful "whats my name" bout, and his racist views. No defense for that, but generally we are talking about his sporting prowess.
Anyway. I'm boxed out, GN and GL to all. |
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Tyson in MMA? I'm sorry AG but have you seen those heavyweight critters in action in that sport? Tyson would be carried out on a stretcher sharpish after a roundhouse or two and being pinned down and seriously taken apart. He would get properly slaughtered by a top flight MMA heavyweight. It's a completely different form of combat. I have to disagree with you there old stick.
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Nite Fox,
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no boxing I mean the way he treated his many wives
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Tyson would have been a car crash in MMA. For a short heavy he was bad enough on the inside with very average strength and tended to get tied up easily. If he didn't KO someone on the way in he would have been taken down quickly in MMA and it would have been game over.
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AG, none of them would have beaten the best "street fighter" of all time Bruce Lee, he utilized every form of fighting to perfect his art. I'm offski, GN.
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It was pretty unedifying when Ali did that to Terrell but the best fighters have to have a nasty streak when they get insde the ropes and Ali was no exception.
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I've seen some very interesting interviews with Chuck Norris about Bruce Lee. Norris was very complimentary about Lee's abilities but I got the distinct impression that he saw him more as an actor than a straight up fighting man.
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I think I'm right in saying he was the Hong Kong Cha Cha champion as a young man.
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old Chuck used to train with Bruce as did Mike Stone who knocked off Elvis's wife, he said nobody could beat Brucie pound for pound
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Ali lost a few fights, and also got the benefit of the doubt in a few others he probably lost.
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anyway Chuck Norris is a wuss Marco Pierre White would do Chuck no bother
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EO, AG is usually a very sensible chap but that was not exactly his finest moment of judgement, imo.
MMA heavyweight champion Dude - No offers. Tyson - Name your price, for me. |
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Tyson had no MMA training to any degree to fight within that category, i was supposing if he did. In my mind he would be made for the game. He was always adamant in a street fight he was unbeatable. Obviously this opens up another debate.
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