a strange way at looking at debt? the deficit - numbers are fun (my ****)

When I say the public sector I include the government.

Labour didnt actually pay for thr building of hospitals or schools, we are now paying for them at silly prices.

Also I would had thought the deficit will increase by year with interest no matter how well they could be doing.

so it cant be very nice for us because the debt is off the scale

If you look at the deficits right through from 1980 there are more deficits under the Tories than Labour

yet it is always Labour spending???????????????

Word of advice for the opening poster - If you only have vague understandings on how deficits work I wouldn't start a thread about it.

mighty white...you have forgotten one thing, The Credit Crunch, that is where the majority of the debt has come from

In 2008 we were better off than we are now

It is immoral that we are living beyond our means today expecting those who follow to pick up the tab for our greed.

this is called Keynesian economics the whole world lives by that...buy now, pay later

At least we got something for our money Dotchinite...some Hospitals

What has Cameron done, all the money he has saved by throwing public service workers out of work and cutting benefits

he has given back to the rich...he has nothing about our deficit

Amazing how easy it is to con some people.
yes it is, Cameron wins on an election on the claim he will clear our deficit, and then does not do it, I think that is a big con

I am not happy with the Tory performance as they haven't kept their promises, but they have reduced the deficit.  Would you like them to cut more drastically to eliminate it completely?  Everyone squeals every time a single cut is announced.  It's pathetic.

Hypothetical I know, but would be interested to know where the deficit would be today had Labour won in 2010.

Indeed.  The reality is if we want first class services, and also a balanced budget then everyone needs to pay more tax, not just the rich.  Miliband's spiteful mansion tax will raise about 1 week of the NHS budget, yet he spins it as if it will fix all the NHS problems. 

We need to have an honest discussion about whether we are all willing to pay the tax needed to make services excellent, rather than just bashing the rich.

Id like to see some sensible analysis about big companies tax avoidance. There is plenty of confusion between turnover and profits in certain quarters but I wonder whether people think allowances given to encourage investment are "tax avoidance" or whether interest paid shouldnt be a tax deductible expense. I know there are issues with companies like starbucks using pricing across countries to shift profits but it would be good to have a proper breakdown so we could see what is unfair tax avoidance and what isnt.

Like everything else we never get sensible adult debate just people ranting about big business dodging their taxes and making them pay more is  a simple solution to cure all our ills when that simply isnt the case.

I like bashing the rich java

If I get a leak in my plumbing and call a plumber who says he can fix it, I would not expect him
to spend hours explaining to me why he cannot, then leave without fixing the leak

So it follows if Cameron says he can clear our deficit as he did at our last election, I expect him to do it
not sit on his ar$e telling us why he cannot. Neither are we in recovery while running a deficit. He has also ignored IMF advice.

I am a socialist so have to vote for Milliband, but I accept socialism must pay for itself.

Monetarism I detest. Because its sole aim is to destroy socialism and to drive the living standards of the poor
down to such an appalling level, they will work for next to nothing. Thus our businesses can show a profit, low labour costs,
it my attract other business. But this means a worse life for the poor so I oppose it, and always will, although it may come anyway.

I hope Milliband wins next May, but he has a massive task, we cant pay ourselves more than we earn as a country,
or we just get inflation(money loses its value itself...this hits those on fixed income). But I want a fairer society.

Whoever gets in, I think we have to pay more for our NHS anyway, however we raise the money.

Whichever party gets in, must also control immigration. We are never going to recover if we just keep increasing our
population, we must stabilise it, and reduce it long term. We need more Renewable energy, lots more wind farms, we will benefit
from this in the log run. Free energy.

I also believe in Santa Clause, but this is what I want.

Free energy my arris.

With wind and solar you need the original capacity on standby running inefficiently just in case the wind and sun dont turn up, so power will cost at least twice as much in the future.

Hey ebul
if you are a socialist you will not be voting for Labour - they abandoned it firstly with Kinnock and finished it off with Blair
"""

"starbucks avoid uk tax. thats clear to me, i dont see what more analysis is needed. Start with stopping the worst excesses and there might be a discussion"


Typical response but not unexpected. Nobody wants to look at the full facts when a general rant based on ignorance will wind the masses up.

Who could possibly be against a detailed analysis or how much and in what areas big companies are judged to avoided. Its all so shallow and childish and no wonder politicians treat the public with such contempt.

The figures I saw must be on the balance sheet...no one could spend that much

I will find them and put them up when I have time mighty white

You are just compounding a myth, labour wastes money and the Tories have to save us

The problem with that theory if you add up all the deficits, they appear to be worst under the Tories

moisok

you may be right there...yes I preferred the socialism of the 60's and 70's

In fact he has deliberately run us at a deficit in my opinion

because it gives him an excuse to smash down on benefits and public service workers

which is what monetarism is all about, it don't care about deficist, only driving the poor into the ground

or as near as they can get away with

never

" I've never gotten this guy.  He was always chasing whatever fads, trying to be popular.  His "anti commercial" 90's schtick was a very common schtick.  Remember Nirvana?  Remember Grunge?  It was hip back then to be anti-commercial.  In fact, it got so hip to be anti-commercial that being anti-commercial became commercial!  Hicks was just riding the coattails of that anti-commercial fad.  He was never original.  Never came up with anything original. "

EbulGery on how simple it is to store wind and solar power for when the sun's not out and the wind isn't blowing at the right speed: You don't use the energy all at once....you store it

Go on then. Show us how to build batteries the size of towns.

Here's a Californian company that uses cutting-edge technology to produce batteries that allow homes and businesses to store solar power to use when the sun's not shining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doosan_Fuel_Cell_America

The main product is the ClearEdge5,[6] PEMFC which produces up to five kilowatts, with the heat by-product suitable for space and water heating.[16] In all, a single fuel cell can produce 43.8 megawatt hours of electricity annually,[16] and has a 20 year lifespan.[22] ClearEdge offers the cell for $56,000 and markets to places where solar energy may be less effective.[16] The primary market is large homes and small businesses, though the marketing and sales focus is on California where high energy prices and government incentives make the units more feasible.[6][23] The ClearEdge5 is about the size of a large refrigerator.

So for just $2800/year(!) every home or business can purchase a battery the size of a fridge to store solar power.

PS It closed its operations in Connecticut in April 2014,[2] and filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in May 2014.